I'm planning an early December Sitka blacktail hunt on Kodiak this year. I'm very excited about this and have been going through my gear planning for 20 degrees and the possibility of rains and snow. This is going to be a spot and stalk hunt. 2-4 miles of walking a day, lots of sitting and staring.

My clothing looks something like this:

Micro fiber jockey shorts
Cabelas thermal longjohns tops and bottoms
Light fleece top and bottom (about 50% heavier than the thermals)
Medium fleece vest
Heavy berber fleece jacket, heavy berber fleece pant
Wind/rain shell

I'm a bit concerned that I'm very heavy on the fleece. Bulk definitely comes to mind. I've hunted this way before from a stand, but for spot and stalk, well, mobility comes to mind.

So, for a 20 degree hunt, what changes would you make to my kit?

And what does your kit look like?

Ummmmmmmm. 20 degrees isn't cold.

To us! Seeing your location as SOCAL. You will be freezing.

Fleece is fine. Just be sure to have some clothing which will block the wind. I can imagine you should expect some rain also. A good cap and waterproof gloves are also valuable. Warm feet are a must. Make sure your boots have some thinsulate and wear top quality socks.

Ski+3

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
Ummmmmmmm. 20 degrees isn't cold.

I'm from SoCal. It's all relative.

Ski,

Thanks for the comment. Yeah feet and hands are high on the list. Going with some LaCrosse 800 gram boots and have a couple sets of gloves to work with. Already have plenty to keep my head warm.

I'm a bit of a boyscout: I figure the smart move is to plan for 10 degree weather just to be safe.

Get one of those "bomber" style fur hats and a "dickie" to wear on your neck and you'll be good with that stuff. Someone mentioned windproof stuff and that's gotta be something that's stressed again. Windproof fleece is available, use it as your outer layer then if you get too hot just take it off and let the wind cool you down a bit.

My outfitter recommended Simm's G3 waders (these are not bibs but with booties)and Simm's Headwater Boots for my recent moose hunt in Alaska. Although they are a fishing wader, they are both strong, wind proof, and very comfortable for rugged terrain (steep, rough)as well as crossing water. The best part was when you sit down to glass, your pants don't get wet as when wearing hip boots. They were also warm enough with one pair of L.J.'s and warm socks. I don't know if these would be applicable for your hunt. But they worked great for mine.

I did use a "bomber" style hat too.

Best regards, D. Nelson

I'd bring some good wind/water proof clothing. Its very likely you'll be dealing with driving rain or snow, and Kodiak is not the most hospitable locale.

I use Polar Tec layerd long johns, start with the silk weight, and add a layer of the waffle pattern ones for when its real cold. Then a set of water/wind proof pants, and a tight long sleeve shirt. Over that, wear a fleece jacket, and a wind/wate proof shell top.


Bring extra sets of gloves, as putting on wet gloves sucks when you're hunting. I would also bring a beanie, and a gator so you can keep your neck/head warm and out of the wind blast.


Lastly, don't overlook the ability to get a small nalgene bottle, boil water and fill it to use as a pocket/hand warmer. I do that for my girlfriend when we're out. Takes a little work, but it keeps her out in the field long after she'd regularly head in.

AK, the water bottle is a great idea - I used to do that when I was a kid out backpacking and completely forgot about it.

Helly Hansen Impertech seems to be the name of the waterPROOF game...

If Camo isn't really needed, I'll save the money and go with my black/grey colored motorcycle waterproofs. They held me dry for 8 hours of straight drenching at 75 mph...I have no doubt they'd work.

So, my waterPROOFing would be waterproofs over a laminant shell. Overkill? I don't think so...I've been wet and cold before...it wasn't fun.

Blacktail are fairly stupid, they'll often stand and look at you before they bolt. I wouldn't think camo would be required.


When I go on my deer hunt in Oct, I'll be wearing camo, but only because my cold weather gear is already camo.

So, for giggles I decided to start trying on combos to make sure it all works together.

Berber fleece? Nope! Won't fit over my boots. LOL! Time to go back to the drawing board!

Well I live here in Kodiak. I can appriciate wanting to stay warm, but driving rain and wind are the norm. I second the waders, plus most of the deer will be on (or at least close) to the beach. Where are you going to be hunting? Are you staying at a lodge, boat, or are you going to use a tent? Too be honest a tent (unless it's a semi permanent tent) will suck that time of year. Prepare for wet, wind, and ice and you should be fine.

Ahh, good good! I'll be hunting with JJ, tent-style. I'm pretty much guaranteed to encounter 20 degree temps and crap weather and rain. Sweet! I'm good with that on the whole...but then, noone ever said I was quite "right".

Rain, in and unto itself, doesn't worry me much - I'm planning for double-rain coverage to be safe. Urethane-backed rain suit over Gore-Tex. Layering up properly to stay warm, well, now that's my real thought process.

Under armor, Mico fleece, Cabelas microtex, on top and bottom. Extra couple layers on the top, Cabelas berber fleece with wind stopper and light weight down jacket. Helly hansen impertech for rain gear and wind breaker. Hat, Goretex cloves with three three sets of liners. Extra set of wool mittens. Knee high rubber boots 800 gram thinsulate, and a set of bunny boots. Shelter tarp to set up and spot from under. This is what I used for two weeks last year on a bear/deer/caribou hunt til the middle of November and I survived. Tent based hunt and we were pitching it on snow for the second half.

quote:

Originally posted by hntr:
Under armor, Mico fleece, Cabelas microtex, on top and bottom. Extra couple layers on the top, Cabelas berber fleece with wind stopper and light weight down jacket. Helly hansen impertech for rain gear and wind breaker. Hat, Goretex cloves with three three sets of liners. Extra set of wool mittens. Knee high rubber boots 800 gram thinsulate, and a set of bunny boots. Shelter tarp to set up and spot from under. This is what I used for two weeks last year on a bear/deer/caribou hunt til the middle of November and I survived. Tent based hunt and we were pitching it on snow for the second half.

Hunter, thank you. That's just what I needed to know.

Sadly, I was trying on gear last week and figured out that there's no way the berber fleece is going to fit over my 800gr. boots. And with my calves, no way they are going to fit into the boot either.

I might have the pantleg split at a tailer and let them put a zipper in. Debating that. Sadly, the "Windstopper Lining" just isn't all that...

But this is exactly what I needed.

PS: adding a down jacket...REI is running a 30% off "one clearance item" sale...and Merrell has a jacket with zip off arms. As if I really need an excuse to blow money on gear though.

As Guns68 said, be prepared for rain and getting wet. Count on it raining every day. When you're sick and tired of it, it will rain harder.
Everything you own will be wet - whether from the rain or crossing the endless creeks.

Talcom Powder. New socks for each day.

Nothing dries out there unless you have access to a drier (not likely).
You can expect to get holes in your waders. Deal with it and the incoming water.

Bring some hand towels to dry out the inside of your waders. They will get wet and again nothing ever dries out there.

Fleece is good but once it gets wet and you've hiked a few miles it stinks. Hence, talcum powder.

in my opinion I would not bring down clothing over here. One it does not get that cold (same for bunny boots) and two, once down gets wet it is worthless (to the point of being dangerous). fleece and waterproof shell are the best. Do not treat the rain lightly here. I have seen just about everything outside of rubberized rain gear (grundens) fail. Plus if you do get wet (and you will to some extent) you need clothing that will keep you warm while wet (relitivley speaking), that means fleece or wool. By the way, for the rubber boots, extra tuffs are the only way to go.

you know the other thing and probably the best, talk with your guide or outfitter, they are going to be the best source of info, I mean I live here so my requirements are going to be somewhat different. for example I gennerally hunt that time of year in my rubberized rain gear and extra tuffs, but I do not get too far from the beach usually, but that's me.

Theres a bit of difference between a warm summer rain, which we mostly don,t get up here, and the cold rain we get in the fall..early winter. Steady rain, middle of winter, northern California style, kinda sucks. Just for shits and giggles, you might ponder the water temps that start to induce hypothermia, then compare the temps you,ll be hunting in. Factor in the time required, add a couple hours of too stubborn to go in, and consider the fun factor on what should be a great hunt. Cold and miserable may not actualy enhance the experience as much as we,ve been led to believe..

rnovi,

Since you live in " Orange County CA " .. You might want to drop by " Bob Marriots Fly Fishing Store ".
http://www.bobmarriottsflyfish....com/waders-footwear

They have a very large selection of " Waders / Jackets / Boots " to choose from ( right fit ) for cold foul weather conditions..

PAPI

I did leave out extra socks. I was on the southwest side of the island and it did get cold enough for bunny boots while sitting and spotting for 10 hrs/day. my buddy wished he would have brought his and he was wearing 1000 gram thinsulate rubber boots and 2 pair of socks. The weather would go from sun to snow to rain to snow to rain to wind driven snow etc... within a few hours. The down insulating layer I had was Cabelas synthetic down but i got sheep hunting partners that use down coats and bags and have never been uncomfortable. Keep them dry under good raingear. I used a Wiggy's zero degree bag and placed my wet cloths in the bag with me to dry them out. We also hung the wet cloths in the peak of the tent and ran our cook stove and lantern. Kodiak is kind of about surviving a hunt but the best trip of my life and will never forget it.

Guys, GREAT suggestions. Keep 'em coming!

Couple comments: first thing I did was to check with my guide on this and get his recommendations on my gear layout. I did make a couple of changes but overall he thought I was pretty well laid out and it was on his recommendation that I went with the LaCrosse Alpha Burly 800's.

I'm making it a point to not rely on any one thing working - pretty much my whole gear concept allows me to double up in the critical parts.

I'm doubling up on raingear. I've spent countless miles riding a motorcycle in the rain and other inclement conditions (as in 200,000 miles of riding experience in any condition). Being cold is tolerable...being wet is tolerable. Being cold AND wet? Ummm, notsomuch...

My outer raingear layer is my Motorcycle gear and I'm putting that over a gore-tex parka. I'm not taking chances with any of my core warmth gear getting wet. I've spent 10 hour, 600 mile days in my raingear and stayed dry on a bike.

Top:
Cabelas thermal layer
Smartwool shirt
Mossy light fleece
heavy Berber jacket
Gore-tex parka (150 thinsulate)
Glomitts
Finger gloves

I'll bring the down convertible jacket/vest with me mostly to wear in the tent while gear is drying out. It will also be a backup item as needed.

Here's the rest of the gear list.


Layering bottom
Cabelas thermal layer
Smartwool pant
Mossy light Fleece pant
Goretex pant (100gr. thinsulate)

Head:
Windproof beanie
Double layer fleece beanie
Fleece neck gator or full face gator
Buff

Boots: LaCrosse Burly 800's

Camp Shoes: to be determined, but should allow some backup should Alpha's fail.

Spare/sleeping
Rei wicking set (two sets, rotate)
Target fleece shirt/pant
8x socks
8x jockeys (Microfiber)
Plus final day flight clothes in ziplock

Incidentals
Toiletries
Contacts & spare glasses
Saline for contacts
Electric mini razor
Glasses repair kit
12 volt SAE battery tendor (for CPAP)
Washcloth and towel
Sleeping bag
Travel pillow

Backpack: daypack
Binoculars: 10x42 Leica HD's
Rangefinder: Leica
Camera: Cannon S90
Box of ammo
Scope wrench, spare screws
Electrical tape/rescue tape
Multi tool
Knife, 3"
Earplugs
Fanny pad
3x Large trash bags
headlamp. 3x lithium aaa battery sets
Spare headlamp
Surefire flashlight, foam barrel mount, 2x extra batteries
Yellow Costco microfiber rag
Gun cleaning kit
12-Volt USB Recharger plug

Rifle: 'cuz you just had to ask: Remmie M7 in 7saum.


Critique away, ladies and gents!

Looks more than sufficient. If you're going to be climbing and then sitting and glassing, you definitely want to be able to add and remove layers.

quote:

Originally posted by hntr:
Looks more than sufficient. If you're going to be climbing and then sitting and glassing, you definitely want to be able to add and remove layers.

Yep, although total expectation is only 2-4 miles per day. Granted, walking in snow and mud is a totally different challenge (energy wise) than walking on concrete, hardpack, etc. I figure it's likely about 1/2-3/4 miles to the first glassing spot, and then move every now and again.

Thanks for the vote of gear confidence.

well, I'm not a motorcycle rider so I can't comment on the rain gear you have, I would assume that if it works in heavy rain at 60+ mph it ought to work here. If this is your complete list I noticed you have not listed a first aid or survival kit, nor any mention of water perification/container. I recommend a purifier. Do not drink straight from the streams around here! Giardia and other nasties are found here and are nothing to take lightly. Also I recommend some sort of an emergency beacon. Spots work well here on the north side of the island (I can't say about the south end) but at work we carry tha ASR aqua sar in our emergency vests (and they work globally). I figure your guide probably has one but if you get seperated you are on your own. Anyway, this is what I think. By the way, why an electric razor? you will smell worse than you look after a couple of days anyway, unless it's to ensure a seal on your CPAP, just curious.

electric razor - because I can't stand a beard?

Motorcycle raingear - yeah, 600 miles, 75 mph, constant rain and no fairing. I was dry, except around the neck area and there just isn't anything that can win that battle on a bike. It's made much like the Helly-Hansen stuff: flex-urethane backed nylon shell. Might be a bit noisey though.

My guide is Jake Jefferson - he's got the first aid/survival/water stuff taken care of. I've had the joy of Montezuma's, compliments of Mexico...yeah, that's just bad news.

Cool. I'd still recommend you carry first aid/survival/water/beacon on yourself as well. Of course now that we have hashed out the rain/cool weather gear it will be sunny and 40 the whole time you are here (not likely, but not impossible either).

I've heard nothing but great things about your guide. I wouldn't worry about personal survival gear unless you already have a SPOT or other type of survivla beacon. The SPOT does work from the other side of the island.

I do not want to be argumentative, but I think that's the first time I have ever heard someone say don't worry about personal survivial gear, especially when refering to Alaska. Too many things can go wrong. Do what ever you are going to do Robert, but I recommend erring on the side of caution. Just to be on the up and up, I carry survival gear to include an AquaSar with me even when I'm on the road system (pretty much the areas you can drive to) here in Kodiak.

Where are the waders?

If you're taking waders you won't need the boots.

Camp shoes - crocs. You won't be venturing far from the tent except to pee. Too many bears.

A couple gallon sized Zip locks and a couple quartz sized.

A book or two. Very easily could get rained out for a day or four.

Sleeping pills. Days are much shorter than you've ever experienced. Your guide will probably be asleep way before you. Whiskey also works wonders and keeps ya warm.

Just one Helly Hanson top will do the trick...and bottom if you're not wearing waders.

Any cover for your back pack?

Zip lock baggies: great suggestion. I was planning to keep everything in plastics in the bag, but forgot to list them.

Waders: rubber boots were recommended, not waders for this trip. So I went the boot route. Of course I'm betting he knows the area well enough to say which I need. I've been wrong before though!

Backpack cover: good call, didn't have that listed and I'll have to find one.

Survival items: I forgot to mention the 6x8 blue tarp I have in my pack. Other than that I hadnt planned anything else based on my discussions. I do plan to carry a couple bottles of water in my jacket.

Sleeping pills: The Lunesta. Yes, good friend of mine. Forgot to list it.

Books: planning for four. Ruark and Pondoro, plus two others. . Maybe a deck of cards or something.


Good stuff guys! Keep it coming!

Rnovi, I want to second the humble garbage bag, a very underrated piece of surival gear!

They take up zero space and weight, but can be worn over your torso if your rain gear is compromised or for extra warmth on an unplanned bivy. I wore one to help keep my clothes dry digging a snow cave on an unplanned evening out in a storm years ago and also wrapped a leg (with the help of duct tape!) when a rock cut my boot/wadders once, which sure made the tundra walk back to camp more comfortable. You can use them to melt snow in the sun in camp while your out huntings, keep things clean during butchering, etc. I always have a few in every pack or bag.

One other suggestion, if you have access to a vacuum packer it is a great way to both shrink your socks and soft items and to guarentee they'll be dry when you need 'em. The dampness from a week long drizzle has to be suffered through to be believed, but as others have said EVERYTHING will be wet and will never dry. I've taken dry tp from inside a ziplock bag and wiped off my freshly oiled gun only to see beads of water left behind. Vacuum sealing a pair or two of socks/underwear/glove liners etc per bag is great insurance if you can do it.

quote:

Fanny pad
3x Large trash bags
headlamp. 3x lithium aaa battery sets

Yep, 33-gallon trash bags rock. I remember using them as poncho's when I was a kid backpacking in the Scouts. They are one of "those items" that definitely should exist in any kit!

Vacuum packing my spares: great idea.

You have pretty good gear recommendations so far. Wind on Kodiak can be the equivalent of riding a bike - it can flat out howl.

One thing I personally always take with me is a wide brimmed hat. You can go Gore-tex with Outdoor Research or with oilskin, like a Filson. I hate wearing a hood (especially in big brown bear country where I want to be able to hear everything that is going on around me), and a wide brimmed hat keeps the rain from running down my neck.

I'll second the suggestion of a visit to Marriotts fly fishing shop in Fullerton, I believe. Brandt there guided fishing and caribou hunting on the peninsula just west of Kodiak. Was a great help to this amateur. Redundancy on flashlights and batteries. More than one box of ammo as they double as signaling devices if things go south.

quote:

Originally posted by guns68:
I do not want to be argumentative, but I think that's the first time I have ever heard someone say don't worry about personal survivial gear, especially when refering to Alaska. Too many things can go wrong. Do what ever you are going to do Robert, but I recommend erring on the side of caution. Just to be on the up and up, I carry survival gear to include an AquaSar with me even when I'm on the road system (pretty much the areas you can drive to) here in Kodiak.

He's going to be with a guide, no? I imagine the guide that has a lot of time logged on Kodiak has the necessary gear. We only had one between my hunting partner and I, kind of the same situation, one beacon two people.

I stand by my comments. My rescue and survival are my responsibility and I delegate that to no one. Do what you are going to do.

Ya. You have pretty good gear selected. Good wide brimed waterproof. hat is a must with a chin strap. It can and does blow 90-100 knots on Kodiak in th winter ... oh and a Ruger Alaskan 375 is a real good coastal deer rifle. . No joke..

quote:

Originally posted by guns68:
I do not want to be argumentative, but I think that's the first time I have ever heard someone say don't worry about personal survivial gear, especially when refering to Alaska. Too many things can go wrong. Do what ever you are going to do Robert, but I recommend erring on the side of caution. Just to be on the up and up, I carry survival gear to include an AquaSar with me even when I'm on the road system (pretty much the areas you can drive to) here in Kodiak.

X2

19 days to liftoff!