a friend of mine is going to alaska next year andhe thought 338 wm was big enough for grizzly . i told him be better to go 375 hh mag or bigger. i told him the harder hitting the better if he charges just like buffalo. what would u suguest? he will probably try to find something used socant be a double or custom just normal off the shelf. i told him to try to find ss and synthetic because of the climate . he dosent care as long as it is reliable. thanks

For Gizzly I really like the .375 it believe it to be the best cartridge.

I have an Alaskan nephew who is a bear guide. Over the years he has "dispatched" dozens of Brown/Grizzly bears for his clients when their own shots did not prove fatal.

1: He always uses a .338

2. It is not stainless nor does it have a synthetic stock.

3. Wounded bears always charge.

4. He hasn't lost a client yet.

He should bring his 338 and use premium bullets and he will be just fine, but if he wants an excuse to buy a .375, this would be as good as any.

I'd have to disagree with the wounded bears always charge statement.

JD

OK, what I should have said, was that IN HIS EXPERIENCE, wounded Grizz/Brownies USUALLY Charge.

Myself, I just watch them. Never had any urge to shoot. Yet.

Have to agree with AKJD, the 338 is more than adequate. Use a 250 grain Premium bullet and he should do just fine.
I can absolutely guarantee that NOT all wounded bears charge. Few do and only in certain situations. When hunting you have the edge hopefull to sneak up on them with out them knowing you are there. Get as close as you can and put the round where your guide says (different guides will tell you to shoot different places) your guide will also back you up but keep shooting as long as it's moving and everything will be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by brian simmons:
a friend of mine is going to alaska next year andhe thought 338 wm was big enough for grizzly . i told him be better to go 375 hh mag or bigger. i told him the harder hitting the better if he charges just like buffalo. what would u suguest? he will probably try to find something used socant be a double or custom just normal off the shelf. i told him to try to find ss and synthetic because of the climate . he dosent care as long as it is reliable. thanks

Believe it or not, most bears in Alaska are killed with the .30-06, .300WM, and the .338WM. These three are the most popular cartridges here. The .338WM is an excellent Alaska cartridge, specially when used with the best Federal factory (or his own) ammo with 250-grain bullets. If he reloads he can use 275-gran A-Frame, but the 250 grainers are plenty.

I agree with all the other Alaskans. My experience is that the .338 is a great bear gun. A .375 or .416 is not necessary for bear, in spite of what you may hear- especially for out of state hunters with a guide back up.

Stainless is great for Alaskan conditions, but not necessary.

But...
these are both great justifications for buying another gun. Just don't confuse want with need.

The 338 is plenty of gun for Grizzly. My son once hunted with me here in Alaska with a 358 Norma and switched to the 338....now he just uses his 300WM and sold his 338. I have down graded to the 30-06 with premium bullets and find that is just fine also.

A .338 Win. Mag. with 250 grains Nosler Partition bullets will be just fine, so long as the hunter does his part... meaning accurate shooting.

Gut shoot a Griz with a .416 Rigby and watch him come at you!!

L.W.

I agree with AK Hunter. Plenty of bears have been killed with 338 and smaller guns. Ditto the stainless guns. If I am buying a new gun, it will be stainless, but if I already have a blue gun, that will work just as well.

The only mountain grizzly I've ever taken was with a 375 H&H shooting 270 gr. Winchester Fail-Safe bullets, and that combo worked very well.

But I would rather have used a 338 Win. Mag. on that hunt, loaded with premiun 250 gr. bullets, or else 230 gr. Fail-Safes. Unfortunately, at the time I didn't have a 338 Win. Mag. in the safe that I had 100% faith in, so I took the 375.

Today, I'd take my current 338 Win. Mag. loaded with 225 gr. Barnes TSX bullets @ 2830 fps. for any sort of inland or mountain grizzly hunt, and ahead of any other rifle I own. Most 338s are significantly lighter to carry that most 375s, the ammo is lighter to carry as well, plus for me the 338 is a more shootable cartridge that I have the utmost confidence in.

Quite honestly, if you can't kill any grizzly that walks cleanly with a 338 Win. Mag., you won't be able to get it done with anything else. That's my opinion anyway........

AD

a .338 w.m. or .340 wthby will work just fine with 250 n.p.

if stainless then that is the way to go and be sure to put oil on it as in a maritime environment it will rust anyway.

if blue then spray it will rusty duck silicone spray. very thick....

quote:

Originally posted by skyeskye:
The 338 is plenty of gun for Grizzly. My son once hunted with me here in Alaska with a 358 Norma and switched to the 338....now he just uses his 300WM and sold his 338. I have down graded to the 30-06 with premium bullets and find that is just fine also.

can I ask why you're son gave up on the .358 Norma? I suspect it to work just fine and bullet selection is very good. It is right in there with em all the .338 and .375 Taylor and H&H version. For grizzlies, most of my shots are within a 100yds I like my .45-70 that I tweaked out. My part of the country is pretty much jungle and them scopes and long barrels are just a nuisance, never hunted with a back up, got to put faith in your arms. To the subject most of these rifles mentioned are all quite capable of downing a bear so long as the shot is placed correctly. Gawd I love to hunt!

Brian:
Your friend should do just fine with his .338. For myself, I'd go with a 225 gr. Northfork or Partition. I'd also consider the 240 Northfork or 250 Partition. As an aside, I wouldn't put a larger sized scope on the rifle -such as a 3-9x variable or larger. If he gets up close & personal, he's gonna want a lower power and larger field of view. I have a 1.5-5x variable on my .338 & keep it on the lowest power when in the thick stuff. I too like the stainless steel models but don't think it's necessary. Good luck to your friend.
Bear in Fairbanks

An echo of what Alan said, if you can't kill a grizzly with a 338, then the issue is related to shot placement, and a bigger round won't make up for that. If one screws up the first shot(s), generally ones shooting ability does not improve in a charge. Shoot what you shoot well, shoot it well, and all is fine.

338 win is one of the best for inland/mtn grizzlies.It shoots flat and hits with authority.Load a premium 225-250gr bullet and go.I know are mtn grizzly hunting involves alot of hiking,I'd go with a lightweight stainless 338 over a heavey 375 any day.
I agree with the other posters- if you can't drop a grizz with the 338,it's the shooter

does anyone know if unit 20A is any good for trophy grizzly?

how about unit 22?

many thanks.

Cold Zero,

You have a private message.

Hi
I asked a question like this one and this was Phil Shoemaker's reply.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
If this forum is for picking one rifle for ALL N AM game including bears (instead of simply who's favorite big bore is potentially a better bear slayer) and all you are looking at is one or two bears in a lifetime then anything from the .270 thru the .338 will fit the bill perfectly. My vote is with the 30-06 because I have one that I have used all over the globe but I certaily wouldn't argue with anyone who chooses a 7mm or 300 magnum either.

He knows more about bear hunting than most do
Dr B

Here are a couple more quotes from Phil

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The 06 with any of the new premium bullets is perfectly adequate for ANY Brown Bear including "ten footers". Anyone who claims different has either not tried it or is commenting on their marksmanship.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I make my living cleaning up messes caused by self proclaimed excellent shots and experienced hunter on Brown Bear hunts. In over twenty five years the over whelming majority were caused by the hunter using a rifle he could not handle.
When a hunter shows up with a well worn 7mm or 30-06 and a sensable scope I know he is going home with a trophy.
I don't have a minimum caliber I require a hunter bring but anything less than a .270 is a stunt and anything over a .375 usually ego.

Dr B

I agree that Phil S. is anexcellent source of info on this subject. However, just like in everything else, there are differing opinions among the experts. The man I hunted brown bears with has as much experience on them as any other Master Guide in AK. and probably more than many of them. He absolutely recommends a 375 as minimum for his clients. Is he wrong?

Location! Location! Location! He must put the bullet in right location no matter what he is using!

shout out to jbabcock;

check your p.m.'s and contact me upon your return.

you rock...

----- The following is in my ( truely humble ) opinion . ( I have no experience with Bear Hunting , although I have been around bears in the field quite a bit ) .

I don't see how anyone can read the great bulk of true accounts on Bear Attacks , ( hunting generated , and otherwise ) , --- and come up with .338 Mag. , as the ideal Grizzly cartridge .

If the case for .338 is predicated on the fact that it is the heaviest recoil that you can hit well with ; --- then I endorse it completely , because , obviously , if you can't place the shot well , you need to step down in recoil , and/or muzzle blast .

Professional guides , world class trophy hunters , Firearms and ballistic experts , & Wildlife Biologists who specialize in Bears ;
-- togeather have written thousands of books / articles on bear attacks , and Dangerous Game charge stopping .

One fact emerges , almost without controversy , --- i.e. that an adrenaline filled Bear , in the commission of a real attack ( not a bluff-charge ) is about as formidable and dangerous an adversary as one can experience , -- short of African thick-skinned species .

EVERYONE knowledgable about the subject , is impressed with the amount of lead these animals can soak up ( not including Cent.-Nervous-System hits ) .

There are many , many reports of Grizzly and especially the larger Browns taking more than one .338 , good solid heart / lung hits and still closing on the shooter(s) .

Most Grizzly and Brown attacks occur within 50 Yds. and income at speeds of around 30 MPH .
One to five SECONDS is the usual time frame .

Your average hunter will take more than three seconds to get his rifle shouldered , the safety off , and aim . --- Think about it .

Anyone who goes after Grizzly or Browns , -- and doesn't consider the Charge , when selecting their rifle and cartridge , -- must have a death wish .

Further , the Grizzly types have an instinct that causes them to intensify their attack , when wounded , ( well known ) .

I have no bias against .338 , -- matter of fact , I own one , and consider it the no.1 best all around rifle for N.American Big Game .

EXCEPT for charging Bears and some of the African D.G. .

Common sense , and yards of facts and studies , -- just won't support it .

I agree with BRIAN ( the author ) , -- go with .375 H&H or bigger , IF , you can hit well . -- And if you're going to be alone without back-up , consider .458 and 500 gr. Soft Points very seriously .

------------- MMCOUGAR .

I have shot a couple with 375 as well as some tough stuff in Africa. I am convinced it is the best caliber for this animal. You must kill a brown bear DEAD as fast as possible, no questions. If you think you can track them through damp ground, alders, willows, etc. you need to be there to believe it is just not possible. Besides, they seal up the wounds so quickly with fat, hair, etc. they hardly bleed externally. 375 with a good bonded bullet is critical. At the end of the day though as others have said, you must put the bullet in the right place. There is not substitute for bullet placement, with any caliber. Also, the 375 will shoot flat as hell and there is no need IMO to take a shot much longer than 150-200 yds. You should get closer if you can.

Some of you may find this humerous but in my last BB hunt (boat hunt) we decided to book the back end of the hunt (May) because the big boars are just moving better. The guys in front of us were some gung ho types (one claimed to be an ex-seal). They both had 375's but came armed only with solids believe it or not. They were looking for their next hunt which was with Mark Sullivan so that tells a lot about their wisdom. Outfitter would not let them hunt and had to scrounge up some softs/bondeds. They both got impatient and shot some small bears. Not necessarily to the question but thought you guys would find it interesting how misguided some people are.

375 is my bet.