WOW! I love Alaska! Now to the nitty gritty. NEVER USE ALASKA WEST AIR FOR ANY HUNTING RELATED THING!!!! As fishing fly outs they know their stuff, but as far as hunting goes they are loobies. The only person there who has any clue about anything concerning their hunting info, is Doug, who once they have your down payment he cannot be gotten a hold of. I know I tried +150 times over February-July. We even tried showing up on locale when we were up there fishing in July. The ladies at the desk when we called would say, he might be in at 1, try then. And then when you called at 1 they would get mad at you for calling them and say Doug was busy.
Now, beef #2(I have had 2 weeks to plan this out ya know...)
Doug when I was looking to book I asked what herd he hunted, and what units we would be in. He said units 9,17, or 19 were the possibilities for caribou and 9 or 16 for black bear. As he was unavailable to talk to for the 6 months leading up to the hunt we didn't know where we were flying to until we stepped on the plane. Unit 17B. Smack dab in the middle of the Mulchatna herd. I hadn't wanted to hunt the Mulchatna herd as the numbers and reports are quite dismal. When we booked with him, he told us that he didn't really hunt the Mulchatna herd, more of a boundary where they collide with another herd that is doing just fine, yadayadayada. So we booked.
#3
Another thing he promised us about the caribou, both over the phone, e-mail, and his brochure, was that they were flying over the caribou area ~1x per week and knew where they were starting the first week of July. On August 10th we were their second flight out, their first dropped off other hunters. They didn't see anything but the 50 when they flew in. We only saw 25 when we flew in.
#4
After caribou we hunted black bears. Now it is August and the salmon are still running strong in the rivers, and the berries are not quite ripe up on the mountains. They put us 15 miles away from the nearest river, and at 3000 ft above sea level, with the ocean in view(as a point of perspective). So ~15 miles and 3000ft elevation away from bears without any fish(none at all btw) or ripe berries up high for incentives for the bears to move away from choked salmon streams. We saw 0 bears when we flew in. And when we asked the pilot which direction was the best way to hunt the bears, down the mountain North, East, South, or West he just said "Everywhere" and took off. We were quite discouraged, but hey, they are the experts right? That is what we paid them for right?
#5
When asked roughly what time of day morning, afternoon, evening we would be picked up, everyone was clueless. So we wasted hunting time because "they might come any time now" and just were left sitting on our gear.

Now for the blow by blow of hunting.
Day 1 for caribou. Woke up at 4:30 am, hiked out 3 miles to a good hill to glass the surrounding area. 50 mph winds and spitting rain, but hey, it was good to be hunting. Stayed there for 5 hours saw nothing, not even a ptarmigan. Hiked another 2 miles to another ridge, stayed till dark. It was 35 deg and raining all day. Saw nothing, but ate a good 3 pounds of blue berries!
Day 2, little discouraged but still have 4 days left for caribou not too shabby. Get up a 4:30 hike to a hill 4 miles from camp glass for 3 hours see nothing head back to camp. Make a little snack. As I boiled the water my dad glassed the surrounding hillsides in the vain hope that we would see some caribou. I looked up and out across the lake. There, not 1000 yards from camp 3 caribou were just on the edge of the lake! 2 cows and 1 calf. We wolfed down our food, grabbed our rifles and packs to see if there were others. We got within 50 yards of those three just to check that there wasn't a bull there. Nope, but we headed out another 2 miles to a ridge to glass the area, 'cause where there is one, there are more and we had seen 3! Immediately was saw another group, 8 this time but still all cows and calves. 30 minutes later another group, 5, crest the ridge and work their way towards us. All cows and calves. We hiked to a different ridge another 2 miles from camp, more in the direct path of the caribou. We spotted another group of caribou, 3, all cows and calves. 20 minutes after that we saw a group of 4 all cows and calves. 2 hours later we saw our last group 5 cows. We stuck it out till dark, hiking to new ridges. By the end of the day we covered 15 miles almost. No bulls. While technically we could shoot any caribou, we weren't going to take a couple of cows on the second day of 5 hunting days! Besides, we saw 25 caribou!
Day 3 Fog and rain stopped visibility at 200 yards, but we hiked out anyway to glass for a few hours. Nothing. All day, nothing.
Day 4 rain and wind ~2 mile visibility. Glassed all day, nothing.
Day 5, final official caribou hunting day. We would have shot a cow yesterday at this point had it been an option. We were in spitting rain all day and saw nothing. We trudged back to camp at 4 in the afternoon, dejected as all get out. We were boiling water for our lunch/dinner, when I saw a bump on one of our favorite glassing hills. I thought it was a bush as I surely had looked it over and over before. I took out the binos anyways, and gave it a look. There was a wolf. My dad had bought a $30 wolf tag fully aware that it wasn't going to get filled, but hey, you never know. The wolf was 1 mile away with the wind in our faces. Perfect. We stopped lunch, grabbed rifles, shooting sticks, and the rangefinder and began the approach. We snuck within 516 yards when we ran out of cover. Now my dad is an excellent shot, as I have previously bragged on, he dropped it with one shot to the heart with a .270 Remington A-bolt using 140 gr. hornady light magnums. It was beautiful. It ran, flopped more accurately, five feet. A gorgeous mature male in its prime ~120 lbs or so. Just beautiful coat. We are getting a live mount done. Spent the rest of the day in trophy care and casual glassing. Did get 2 ptarmigan, tasty btw, very tasty.
Day 6 Spent the morning tidying up everything and glassing around camp. Not venturing more than a 5 minutes walk from camp because hey, they could be coming any second. 5 pm they came. No caribou all day, we didn't see any flying out either. A grand total of 50, 25 flying, and likely the same 25 hunting.
Day 7 Bears. I have already vented my spleen in regards to the placement. Nonetheless we spent all day hiking to various look overs. 10 minutes before dark, we saw a black bear. A huge boar. 2 miles away in a straight line through the air. 2000ft below us. 4.5 miles walking as we found out later. We saw it for a whopping 2 minutes before it dashed into an alder thicket.
Day 8 you can see 10 feet in front of you and the fog stops it there. Nevertheless 5 am found us glassing what we could. We hiked down to near where we saw the bear but after 4 hours sitting and barely being able to see the end of your nose we headed back to camp. By the way, did I mention that the grasses there were 6 ft tall, with 8 ft ferns and wildflowers? Gorgeous as can be, but when you think you are near a bear the flora is well above your head, it is foggy anyway you get a wee bit nervous!
Day 9 last official day for bears. We hiked down 4.5 miles and 2000 ft in elevation each way again. This time it was clear and gorgeous though. We spent 14 hours down there, only thing we saw was a massive, and I mean massive bull moose. Using the 10" between the antlers rule, it was pushing 70" with 5 brow tines on one side, 4 on the other 15 long tines all the way up the paddles on each side, some of the tines were and easy 12-15" long. Just spectacular. No moose tag, residents only area anyway, and the season wasn't open yet. Typical. Any way we got to watch him for 12 hours just 300-400 yards away. That was breath taking.
Day 10 pick up day, well sort of. We didn't dare venture far 'cause they might be coming any minute now. It was clear and beautiful too mind up until 4:20 pm. Then fog started to roll in. We heard the plane at 4:30. We saw it for 2 seconds then fog crashed in all around us.
Day 11 Bonus day! Not really because we didn't know when they would come and get us. Picked us up at noon. No bears on the fly out.

All in all the weather contributed a good 30% to our success, or lack thereof. The other 70% was due to poor locale. We feel like this outfitter took our money and ran. I hope that you never use him, and that you never have that kind of trouble.

However, I was able to spend almost 2 weeks in the most pristine and gorgeous places I have ever been graced to view. I spent an awesome time with my dad and had a blast. That alone was worth, but we would have like to have a real opportunity to fill our tags. We did do some awesome salmon fishing for silvers and reds on the Kenai and had a blast.

Anyway, don't use Doug Brewer and Alaska West Air for hunting.

Thaks for the report. Would love to see picturees of the wolf when/if you have any.

Jonathon

It is clear you are not very experienced in hunting in Alaska. First off Alaska west Air is only an "Air Charter" , Which means they can not guide you, They can not pre scout for game / help plan stalks / pack game or even suggest were to hunt. This is mandated by Alaska state law!

(Another thing he promised us about the caribou, both over the phone, e-mail, and his brochure, was that they were flying over the caribou area ~1x per week and knew where they were starting the first week of July. On August 10th we were their second flight out,)

This is a complete lie, Jonathon they fly this region 2-5 times a week from April - Out. Bear hunters in the spring, Tout and Salmon fishermen all summer, and hunters Aug.-Out.. It is probably true you were one of the first hunters they flew out this year, but they fly this area all most every day July-Sept.

(All in all the weather contributed a good 30% to our success, or lack thereof. The other 70% was due to poor locale. We feel like this outfitter took our money and ran..)

REMEMBER Alaska West Air is. NOT a Guide ! They are only responsible for Flying you and Providing a camp.( Tent/Stove/ Sleeping bags/ Food/ Water/ General camp) You picked the time of year you hunted, You are the one primarily responsible for your success or lack thereof Early Aug. is a horrible time to hunt caribou and you picked that time of year to hunt! Who's fault is that? . In August the main herds of caribou are always at the highest elevations and except for small bands of caribou totally inaccessible. If you want to see large herds for caribou hunt then the are the area Sept.15 - Out 15

Like it or not, no matter what you think most Air charters do not tell you an exact time they will pick you up. Even if they did, because of weather few of them would be on time. At best you will be told they will try to pick you up in the morning or afternoon, you can /should expect to be a day late getting out. On one hunt of mine (different air charter) I was told the air charter few the area every day and if I killed my sheep early in the hunt they would pull me out within a day or two. I killed my sheep on the first day and waited the inter hunt (10 days) to get picked up! Was he a bad air charter? No he was a Great Air Charter! He was a great pilot, He flew me to the drainage I asked to be flown to, And picked me up when it was safe. Sure I was pissed I. But he was a great Air charter.

Jonathon like many unsuccessful hunters you want to shift the blame to Air charters for- Unsuccessful hunts, Rain,Fog, Visibility, Caribou movements and even Berry ripeness! Air charters are only viable options for hunters willing and able to do their own research . They are only the "transportation" to the hunt area! You cant expect to simply pay your money and be flown to the "secret spot" By call calling anybody 150 times It sure implies you might be a difficult /hard to please. But that just my guess!

"This is a complete lie, Jonathon they fly this region 2-5 times a week from April - Out. Bear hunters in the spring, Tout and Salmon fishermen all summer, and hunters Aug.-Out.. It is probably true you were one of the first hunters they flew out this year, but they fly this area all most every day July-Sept."

Hmm, do you work with them, for them? How do you know? I stated that because that is exactly what had been told to us 1/2 hour prior to departure. He salmon fishes/trout fishes directly across the inlet, and yes he does an excellent FISHING service. His exact words to us before flying out were "we have only been out to that area once this year when we dropped off 4 hunters."

We know that he cannot plan a stalk, help with the pack out, etc. However I would love for you to show in the law where he cannot scout, as that is exactly what was promised.

When asked as to what the hunting is like at this time of year for caribou his response was that though they are not in large herds, in 5 days we should reasonably see 600-800 caribou.

You are right, this was our first hunting experience up there. However, we are more than willing, and able, to hike 15 miles a day looking for game. However, when the area you are in has literally zero caribou, it is more than slightly disheartening.

When asked how the bear hunting was at that time, he said they are munching on berries and we should expect to see around 10 bears in 3 days. This area he has been flying daily for months as this is just 15 miles before the area that he fishes. After the hunt we asked one of the assistants at their main office where they had been seeing the most bears. Their response was that they were all around the rivers/lakes that they fish. Which were well out of reason, 15 miles each way on top of dealing with a 3000 ft elevation change. Simply put, unreasonable.

We didn't want guaranteed success, ie killing trip. What we did expect was a reasonable opportunity to see a specimen/specimens that were an option to fill. A 5' bear on day one that we passed on for instance.

The reason for the multitude of calls was to try and get a hold of Doug, which we got a hold of 0/150. That is horrible communication. We had a fairly basic list of questions that no one could answer save Doug, according to the ladies tending the phone.

Again, I await your quotation of law stating "They can not pre scout for game".

One thing I forgot,
As pilots, they were very skilled and we did expect to be picked up a day late. That was the least of our disgruntled feelings towards them.

It's good to hear you had a good time with your Dad. Too bad you didn't fill your tags, but that's hunting.

By what you've said I wouldn't decide not to use the air taxi you went with. I think weather was the main factor in your lack of success. When the pilot said to look for black bears everywhere, I think I would have told you the same thing. That time of year they should be hitting the berries, so they're roaming around looking for them. We've had a very cool "summer" this year, so everything is a little behind, but August 10 might be a little early normally. The black bears in the area you went to aren't big fish eaters either. When the brown bears are on the steams, you won't see a blackie around for miles.

I think your lack of homework, deciding to hunt when you did, and where you did was the major factor for not filling your tags. GMU 17 is one of the last places I would choose to hunt caribou, and I sure wouldn't do it so early in the season.

Not being able to get in touch with a pilot during the summer is about the norm. "He's busy", no kidding! When I was guiding and using an air taxi service I wouldn't think about trying to talk to the owner when he's working like a mad man during the busiest time of the year.

On your next trip up here do some more research, like with F&G, other forums etc. and try to find a better location and time of year to hunt, hopefully with your dad again.

Ken

My research has definitely been wanting. I also understand that once May hits, it would be highly challenging to get ahold of a pilot. I would have thought that in Feb, March, and April I should have been able to get contact with him.

If you do use him, use with caution. I have found a couple others who used him with scarily similar experiences with this outfitter.

I flew out with them 21 years ago this week as a matter of fact. Hunted the Lake Clark area. I know things change a lot in 21 years but we had zero complaints back then.

Jonathon
I do not work with them, or for them. I am not even a friend of theirs. But I have been a fishing guide here on the Keani Peninsula for the last 23 years and at one time or another used or referred clients to most of the air charters here on the Kenai Peninsula. Jonathon I really think hunting August 10 was 80% of your problem. I don't think you can reasonably expect to see 600-800 caribou on a late summer hunt. I bet 80% of all caribou hunters never see 800 caribou on a 5 day hunt, even at the best time of year.


AS 08.54.650. Transporter License.

(b) A transporter may provide transportation services and accommodations to big game hunters in the field at a permanent lodge, house, or cabin owned by the transporter or on a boat with permanent living quarters located on salt water. A transporter may not provide big game hunting services without holding the appropriate license.<> See <>Unlawful Acts. <> AS 08.54.720.

<>

<>If you sill don't believe me send this guy an email, Jeff Selinger (jeff_selinger@fishgame.state.ak.us) ADF&G/Wildlife Conservation

Robert,
"Jonathon I really think hunting August 10 was 80% of your problem. I don't think you can reasonably expect to see 600-800 caribou on a late summer hunt. I bet 80% of all caribou hunters never see 800 caribou on a 5 day hunt, even at the best time of year."
Having never caribou hunted again, I could only go by what I was told by the outfitter. This being what he told me, we took those dates. We asked him how the caribou hunting was at that time, and this is what he told us.

If the interpretation of the law includes flyover scouting, then he is advertising illegal activities. As I doubt that he is, I think that this is a grey area of the law.

And yet again, for fishing I know he is top notch, our good family friend(also a guide on the Kenai), Steve McClure, is the guy who referred us to him, as he does with flyout fishing.

And yet again, they had excellently skilled pilots who knew how to fly. If you want to gamble with a couple grand, feel free to use him. Maybe you'll have a wonderful time, if not I told you my end of things.

The air transporter screwed you, plain and simple. He knew, through his vast experience that the intended quarry you were hunting was not going to be available...and he knew that upon your very first conversation with him. As is usual in a seasonal business like his, he needs to make as much money as possible in the very short season he has, even if he has to lure hunters into his lies. Hey, whats the chances he will ever see you again? He knows the chances are nil which is why he did'nt care to begin with. As far as his negligence on at least 1 return call to you, he just blew you off. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is too busy to return 1 call to someone who just made his payroll for the week. Never mind the money he screwed you out of, if it were me and I ever got to that area again I would pay him a visit and give him the beating he deserves, just for being disrespectful to my dad.

Jonathon,
I also feel that you got a raw deal from the transporter. Be careful with your terminology, however, as he is not your "outfitter". That is a different level of service. When using a transporter, you should be prepared to tell him where, exactly, you intend to go from your own research. Letting him choose your destination is the root of your problem, from what I can gather. Since he is not an outfitter, only a transporter, this really isn't supposed to be his decision. That said, I have listened carefully in the past to suggestions by other air taxis. They usually (should) provide sound advice. I confirm their suggestions independantly, however.
It is sometimes confusing to understand the diference for first time Alaska hunters between transporters and outfitters. Many transporters sound a lot like outfitters on the phone. There is a huge difference. The really good transporters provide a valuable service, and are quite busy. As an aside, it does appear that most bush pilots are a different "breed", and it helps to understand this when dealing with them in the future. By the standards of the lower 48, most pilots are a bit "off", but can still be great guys.
Sorry you had such a tough expereince.
Bill

In Alaska, an Outfitter will provide all the tents, stoves and other crap you need for a hunt. He Outfits you for the hunt.
A Transporter/Airtaxi, will haul you to an area to hunt. Either you pick the area or he does. Your choice.
If you rely on his judgement for the selection of the area, you take what you get.

Here is a direct quote and link to his website. There was absolutely no option mentioned to us for us to pick the area.
"Caribou Hunt (One Camp)
We fly you and your camp from Kenai directly into an are in which we have scouted abundant game. Game concentrations can vary on location from one year to the next. We find this style of hunt allows us to locate hunters as close as possible to excellent areas. (5 day hunt recommended)"
www.alaskawestair.com

This wasn't an air taxi according to our conversations and the interpretations therein.

Walker, your taking that sentence out of context and playing with words...read the whole paragraph for the true meaning of what the transporter is stating to the prospective client. The transporter is stating that due to the fact that game concentrations vary from year to year their method of scouting the area prior to dropping you off there works better for the hunter. And thats the rest of the story!

Having experienced a number of bullshit hunts this sounds like another. This guy screwed you over plaim and simple. Enough with the apologists, they are most likely in the business.

If I hear one more "that's hunting" comment I'm going to puke.

What a great business: lies, more lies and no accountability.

I will never again pay for a guided hunt, what a bunch of unscrupulous "professionals". What a joke!

I think somebody watches too much TV. They see those big migration clips from Canada and expect to see that on any hunt they go on. The Mulchatna herd doen't make a concentrated migration like that and they sure aren't migrating the first part of August. Either somebody didn't do all their homework or somebody lied or maybe a combination of the 2.

Quite simply put, we were lied to. I was thinking/expecting to see around 10-15 each day, until I talked with Doug. He blew smoke up my posterior until I believed. Hey, how was I supposed to argue with "the guy in the know"... So yes, we were lied to, although I sense your implication is of a differing nature.

Very interesting conversation.

With all of that said. Do any of the people on here know of a reputable guide for various game in Alaska. I am not sure of the possibility of getting it all lined up on short notice but I am going to be in Alaska for the rest of the Fall working on the pipeline and would like to talk to someone on maximizing my stay.
Big Game, Predators ect.
Thanks

As I tell all of my friends who have had your experience - go to Africa. It costs that same as a guided hunt in the Rockies or Alaska and you see more game, get treated like royalty and can wear shorts.....

If Africa is not your cup of tea, use an agent. I do this on every trip I take in order to get the most leverage with the outfitter. The agent sends a lot of business to the outfitter and should be in constant contact with them on - where the game is, what are the best times to hunt, etc... If things go bad, I "light up " the agent...

As for relying on a crop duster for info - they make money flying, not delivering the goods. It is like asking a surgeon if you need an operation or a car salesman if you need a new car... They will sell you what you want to buy... Same in the hunting business. I am sure they saw a lot of critters from the air, but where and when is the key question...

I am sorry you learned a hard lesson, but most of us have been hosed like you were...

I guess its all about perspective. Doug flew me in and out of the Alaskan Range in 2005 on a spring Brown Bear hunt. Granted I was using an outfitter, Doug had tremendous knowledge of the area. He has been flying since he was 14 and as you mentioned in your email, flys people in and out of the bush almost year around. Alaska is a tough place to hunt, I learned first hand. I can't speak to your experience as I was not there, however I have been to Alaska numerous times as well as all over Canada and most of the other states worth hunting. I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to outfitters and in your case pilots. Doug is far from the ugly and much close to the good. Hope you don't give up on Alaska, some of these hunts just take time.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
As I tell all of my friends who have had your experience - go to Africa. It costs that same as a guided hunt in the Rockies or Alaska and you see more game, get treated like royalty and can wear shorts.....

If Africa is not your cup of tea, use an agent. I do this on every trip I take in order to get the most leverage with the outfitter. The agent sends a lot of business to the outfitter and should be in constant contact with them on - where the game is, what are the best times to hunt, etc... If things go bad, I "light up " the agent...

As for relying on a crop duster for info - they make money flying, not delivering the goods. It is like asking a surgeon if you need an operation or a car salesman if you need a new car... They will sell you what you want to buy... Same in the hunting business. I am sure they saw a lot of critters from the air, but where and when is the key question...

I am sorry you learned a hard lesson, but most of us have been hosed like you were...

You don't really believe that do you?? I've been comparing the costs of both areas, Africa and Alaska and it appears to me that Africa is no bargain when it comes to hunting. Figure in ALL the costs and you will see that they are similar but it will also vary depending on who you hunt with, the outfits with the best areas or more remote areas will charge more. Alaska is not as bad a deal as most people would like to make it out to be. I am not a guide or an air taxi owner, I just live and hunt here.

Maybe the next trip will be a treat. I have fished the Kenai Peninsula for many years and the first trip was good but every trip got better and now I feel like a part time resident when I am there. You just learn more and make yourself more comfortable with knowledge each trip. Enjoyed some nice Halibut tonight thanks to Vader Charters. First class halibut fishing and first class equipment.
You can get real lucky. I have a friend in Charlotte that went up moose hunting with 4 friends and they rented boats and camping gear and off they went. They all had a moose in 10 days.

Jonathan,

I was on the plane with you when you were dropped off for the bear hunt. We were picked up that day up in the Alaska Range near Farewell, and rode all the way through the Mulchatna drainage to pick you guys up and drop you off bear hunting. I can tell you in the hundreds of miles we flew at low level through what used to be prime caribou country, I did not see a herd of caribou of over 10 animals. You picked a very bad time and a very bad herd to hunt, period. You were dropped in a prime area for black bears, period. If you were dropped by the salmon streams over there you would have been fighting off brown bears. If you didn't know, black bears don't like to hang out and fight over food supplies with brown bears. I would question why you payed to be dropped off for black bears over there when you could have hunted them on the Kenai Peninsula for nothing? Research!! I have flown with Doug for years and he has never told me anything that wasn't true. I flew with him for a spring brown bear hunt and a fall hunt this year and didn't get anything on either trip, but it was by no means Doug's fault. He was honest enough to suggest I not go the day we were flying for brown bear because he had not seen any out of their dens yet. Realize you were hunting free range wild animals in a very remote area. Some people expect to have the animals fenced in like the exotic farms in Texas. As far as getting ahold of Doug, did you notice the amount of flights coming in and out of his float plane base when you were there? Doug is a pilot and flies as much or more than any of his other pilots. He is usually in a plane from daylight till dust in the summer. He has hundreds, if not thousands of paying customers every summer. If you tried getting ahold of him 150 times, you probably ticked him off. I know that his staff is very knowledgable about where game is being spotted, what you can expect on a hunt, etc. I'm sure they could have answered any questions you had. I don't ask to speak to the CEO of Walmart if I have a question about an IPod. By the way, I helped you load and unload your gear, and if you want to quote his website:

"All personal gear, including food, must be kept to a maximum of 85lbs. per person. Non compliance could cause extensive flight delays and/or an increase in price."

You had bags that weighed 85 pounds by themselves. I bet he was kid enough not to charge you? If I were you I would chalk this up to a learning experience. Caibou can be around in the hundreds one day and gone the next. You need to get what you can when you can. I seem to recall you saying that you didn't even know you could shoot a cow until after you had seen all of them the first couple of days. That shows your lack of preparation. The pilot was very suprised by this also. If you had gone with another flight service at the same time you would just be mad at somebody else. You were able to take a wolf, see caibou, and see an enormous moose. Seems successful to me.