lately i have been watching a few shows in alaska and i have been seeing alot of stainless marlin 45/70's is this just on tv or do alaskans consider the 45/70 a good bear caliber.a 350 grain a-fram at 2100 fps and a 400 grain at 2000 fps seems pretty impressive to me and is way up there in the thornily stopping power chart! how is the 45/70 act in the real world ?

I suspect the stainless lever guns make for better tv drama than a holstered handgun, thus the preference on the tube.

I've never had to "stop" anything so I couldn't speak to the effectiveness as a stopping gun.

On the other hand, I have been made aware of a few instances of poor performance from the 45/70 as a hunting cartridge and am not impressed. It is a big bullet going fairly slow, trajectory is moon shaped, I just don't see it.

My preference when out and about in a non hunting manner is to carry a handgun that's not overly burdensome. The great big giganto super mag revolvers interest me less than the lever gun. If during hunting season, I think any of my bolt guns in 30 cal or larger would be better than the 45/70.

i personally would go with a good bolt action in 375 or 416 caliber but was curious about the 45/70 up in alaska after seeing there use in a couple of shows

The Guide Gun hysteria never got to me,, my take is they (properly loaded) would be a great yard gun or a camp rifle. Over in the village of Kokhanok a friend has killed many smokehouse raiding brown bears with his GG useing 405gr Rem hanloads.
That being said a new Big Horn Armory 500 S&W will be here very soon for my yard work. 400gr@2000fps is the load I'm looking at,,400gr Woodleighs probably.

Jim ; I've been thinking about one of those lately . Ide be interested in your take on it when you get it and run it thru it's paces.
In Southeast the Marlin Guide Gun is very popular for bear defense. However!!! Most of the ones I know have had troubles. Tho they can take some high pressure ammo. They aren't a bolt gun. Often the action either won't open after fireing a round or it won't close or it won't cock or the trigger doesn't actuate as the hammer is in its rearward motion either from pushing down on the lever or trying to cock it with the thumb.
My GG didn't lock up malfunction but the action would buck open part way when fired with heavy loaded ammo.

Before I get jumped on by the lever gun guys let me say that I know of lots bears that have been dumped with GGs . And I mean upside down dead. So a 458 cal bullet @around 2000 fps works good. . I traded off my GG and its one rifle that I don't miss. I think that if your a lever gun guy and you know how to find and solve their little problems . They are fine. I'll stick with short barreled stainless Rugers. In nice big fat rounds.

Buy a Winchester 86 extra light weight in 45/70 and schemer to 450 Alaskan. Send it to WMD and have it salt bath nitrided. Corrosion proof and slick.

Rechamber not whatever auto correct says.....

Take a look at the Ruger #1 in 45-70. With its strength of action, you can load it strong however, your shoulder will know it. You'd be suprised how quickly you can eject and chamber another round in this little single shot with a little practice. It is my only rifle without a scope but, the Skinner sights I have on mine are plenty accurate out to 100 yards or so.

I'm not a lever gun nut, but I do think they represent the best boat/cabin/camp gun because they can be carried with the chamber empty for months with total safety yet be instantly (much more quickly than a bolt action) put into play. They are also intuitive (cycle lever, pull trigger) vs the many varieties of bolt guns if I'm not the closest one to it when trouble arises.

A 45-70 at 2000fps may be slow by 300 wizzbang standards, but for bear DEFENSE shots by definition are going to be close. I want deep penetration followed by a big hole. Mine is a 50AK that weighs 6.6lb and fires 525 grain LBTs at 1865fps. It's brutal overkill but fun, but realistically if I did it over again I'd just stick with a 45-70 and proper loads and be totally satisfied. I did remove the worse-than-useless cross bolt safety to make if more dependable in a panic and always carry it with an empty chamber.

The one inbound at a dead run bear (now rug) I ever had to shoot was going after a cow moose that popped up out of the brush behind my GF and I as we watched the bear. A hornady 300 grain round nose at 2400fps, not a super premium bullet, gave a bang flop.

I do not normally get into these sort of threads but this time I will add my $.02.
When I lived in Alaska I killed two 9'+ brown bears with a .30-06 using 150 gr spitzers, neither were attacking me but both dropped at the shot through the shoulders with exit holes. I went to Tanzania a few years back with a .458 Win Mag loaded with 400 gr. Barnes originals and killed a 42" buff with 1 shot thru the shoulders. Upon walking up to him I shot him through the shoulders again with a .458 WM case loaded to 45-70 standards (.405 Rem. JSP over 69 gr @ 1950 fps thru my chronograph)just to see how it would perform on the animal. That too was a pass thru with the same amount of damage the Barnes load did.
Every few years I go back to visit family and hunt in Ak. and I take my GG for bear and moose.

The most popular cartridges in Alaska are the .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM. If you like heavy and slower bullets, then load the heaviest .30-caliber bullets on the first two, and from 250 to 275-grain A-Frame for the .338. I don't hunt bears, and have settled on the 225-grain TSTX for the .338 as my all around bullet.

A friend of mine uses a .45-70 to hunt moose at close range in forested areas (within 100 yards). I imagine that if you plan to shoot close the .45-70 is a good choice, but not such a good choice for the wide open areas of the interior where the shots could be long.

Now if you don't live in Alaska and have to pay a guide, by all means as the guide for gun advice, since you will be paying a lot of cash for the hunt. Just keep in mind that Alaska hunters aren't just hunting bears, but moose, caribou, bison, etc. If there is the opportunity to kill a bear while hunting moose or something else, then whichever rifle happens to be at hand is used. That's why most bears aren't killed with the biggest guns around.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
I do not normally get into these sort of threads but this time I will add my $.02.
When I lived in Alaska I killed two 9'+ brown bears with a .30-06 using 150 gr spitzers, neither were attacking me but both dropped at the shot through the shoulders with exit holes. I went to Tanzania a few years back with a .458 Win Mag loaded with 400 gr. Barnes originals and killed a 42" buff with 1 shot thru the shoulders. Upon walking up to him I shot him through the shoulders again with a .458 WM case loaded to 45-70 standards (.405 Rem. JSP over 69 gr @ 1950 fps thru my chronograph)just to see how it would perform on the animal. That too was a pass thru with the same amount of damage the Barnes load did.
Every few years I go back to visit family and hunt in Ak. and I take my GG for bear and moose.

I really like this one: Obviously, I don't live in Alaska so I have nothing to say about conditions there. But I do watch videos of hunts there as well as in Africa. And I listen (read) to what residents and others with considerable experience have to say.

To establish some credentials I'll mention that I'm in my eightieth year and have somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 decades of hunting, mostly big game but some varmints and small game as well, including a very short stint in Africa.

I've owned (and used) four 1895 Marlins including one GG with porting. I kept the GG for less than 2 years due to two facts: the porting and loudness. The others had 22" barrels. I found the two Marlins that had Ballard rifling to be as accurate as any big-game bolt gun, with proper loads. With the best bullets, there is nothing I'd be unwilling to face, short of elephant. They were ideal for black bear, and nothing would put them down faster for keeps.

Having said all that, I don't currently have a Marlin .45-70 in my locker. What I do have is a #1 Ruger in .45-70 that I had my gunsmith extend the throat on by .30". In effect, it's a .458 WM (of which I've also owned 2 and have a great regard for) in ballistics, but also a .45-70 when I want .45-70 ballistics. There is no caliber in a Big Bore that can come close to .458" in such a variety of bullets from 250gr to 550gr for anything and everything. My Ruger #1 in .45-70 IMP will shoot a 300gr TSX as fast as a .30-06 will shoot a 180gr factory load. It will shoot the 350 TSX at up to 2600 fps, though my "normal" load is about 2500. If I were to move to Alaska tomorrow with one rifle in tow, it would be either a 22" .458 Win Mag or my Ruger No.1 in .45-70 IMP.

That being said, my favorite medium-bore is now a 9.3 X 62. I've owned and used most of the others at one time or another -- in several versions. But handloads only in both rifles.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

In the real world of Alaska, I have friends that take moose at close range (less than 100 yds) with the 45-70 every year and have done so for more years than I have been dropping moose with a bolt gun. They usually step up a bit for brown bear and go to a 338, 375 or bigger.

The reason you see GG in a 45-70 is that it is fairly versatile cartridge with a heavy bullet, the GG can hold a few more shells than a bolt gun, and they are short/easy to carry.

When you add those gun qualities together with the ballistics of a 45-70 it is a good choice but not the best choice for everything in Alaska.

AKMATT

Are you sure they're not shooting the 450 Marlin? In Dillingham We used one for the department's "bear" gun - I actually carried my 375H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:
In the real world of Alaska, I have friends that take moose at close range (less than 100 yds) with the 45-70 every year and have done so for more years than I have been dropping moose with a bolt gun. They usually step up a bit for brown bear and go to a 338, 375 or bigger.

The reason you see GG in a 45-70 is that it is fairly versatile cartridge with a heavy bullet, the GG can hold a few more shells than a bolt gun, and they are short/easy to carry.

When you add those gun qualities together with the ballistics of a 45-70 it is a good choice but not the best choice for everything in Alaska.

AKMATT

Agree with you Matt. The friend of mine who uses a .45-70 for moose hunting does not even have a scope on his rifle, just the iron sights. He calls-in moose quite close in the spruce and birch thickets, and has done so for many years.

Three friends and I hunt near the ridge-top where the shots could be from 50 yards to 350 yards. One uses a 7mm Magum, and the other two use custom .300 RUM rifles, while I have used a .338WM since the early '90s. Two other friends who camp farther on the trail use .338s, and a father and son use a .338WM, and a .375 H&H (they hunt down in the valley). Two years ago they killed a record-size grizzly that was attracted to their cow calls

When berry picking on the Elliott I carry a Marlin .45-70 loaded with factory hard cast ammo, or a Freedom Arms .454 Casull loaded with factory hard cast ammo. However, I have never had to shoot a bear in self defense. For close range work the .45-70 without a scope is just about perfect, but not so good for the wide open areas of the interior.