The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Alaska Hunting Forum Can We get some facts from some Brown Bear Guides?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I know this subject has been beat to death and I appologize in advance to the guides on the board because I am sure you are sick of reading about it. I would like some real experiances you have had with charging or killing bears that were wounded and what your caliber of choice was and why? I am only asking this because when I first started coming on here 2 or 3 years ago I was told a 300win was to small for Brown Bear and to use a 338win. A little while later a 338win and 340 weatherby was too small so now a 375 H&H was what you wanted to stop fights. Then awhile later a 375 H&H was not a 100% stopper so you needed a 416. After that guide got mauled with his 416 you needed a 458win or a 458 lott. Pretty soon I fear we are going to need a 577 Tyrannosaur to Hunt BB and stop charges. The info is not really for me but for new people that comming on the board and being talked into buying a rifle that 95% of them cannot handle because some on the board are scared of Browns. So lets hear it is a 338win with 250's to small to stop a BB every time or a 375 H&H with 300's to small? Is there really much difference in the reaction from a 338win, 375 H&H, 416rem, and 458win when a bear is hit where he is supposed to be? I really only want to hear from guides with experiance not opinion from people who have never hunted them. If you are a hunter and have a few browns under your belt lets hear from you also. | ||
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I don't exactly have experience with 'charging' brown bears, but I do have experience killing them. I 'kill' them with a 340 mag. Works for me, I shoot it well. If I knew positively that I would have to kill a charging, big bear, I might possibly consider something like a double rifle with open sights in the .400 range or larger. When I was a kid in AK my dad took me Polar bear hunting, 1965. He shot his bear with a 25-06. Sounds crazy to me now, but back then he hunted everything with it. Its still one of my favorite rounds.(But its TOO SMALL for big bears!) | |||
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How do you define a charge. .458 Brought this up the last time this subject came up and the reason this is so important here is because alot of the time charges are stopped before they ever happen. An example of this was in 1986 I had a client who made a very good stalk on a bear with me up to about 25 yards without the bear having a clue we were there. When the clint fired his .375 the obviously stunned bear who did not go down turned to see what had just happend. When he spotted us he turned to charge. At that momment I joined in and the client who fortunatly was experianced with dangerous game quickly fallowed up with two more shots. The bear never charged. He couldn't just to much fire power directed at him. In this case was there a charge? the answer is No was a charge stopped? Yes. I have been a guide for 27 years. I'm now a master guide but not so old at 46 that I don't have a few more bears in my future. So far I have personly guided my hunters to an even 30 Brown bear kills. In that time I have been charged twice by a bear that would fit into the stereotype of full on charge from up hill won't stop till one of us is dead kind of a charge. One was a big old burly 9 footer that you would expect this kind of behavior from. one shot from my .338 at about 7 yards stopped him in his tracks.Quess what the other was a black bear and probably my closest call. We stalked him into some alders at about 10 yards and when the client shot the bear turned and charged me. I raised my .375 and got a blur of black in my scope and fired. The bear droped and rolled when it was all over the bear came to a stop about ten feet behind me. To answer your question a .300 mag is the lightest I would go with on Large coastal bears. Having said that it dose work just fine and I would say that more than half of the 30 bears were taken with one of the various 300 mags. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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AK shooter all three accounts I would consider a charge you shot the bear now he sees you and it is game on. Same with the bear coming at you until one of you is dead. You brought up a great point when you said the first bear saw you and tried to charge but was stopped from two more shots. That in my mind is how it should be done. I have talked with lots of people who have shot Browns and the few that have been charged say the same thing the bear tried to charge but to much power was thrown at him and he couldn't. I think some people really believe a bear can take a hit at center mass and not even stop and just keep coming. My gunsmith has shot 4 Browns and the one that charged he shot 5 times with a 338-416. Everytime he hit the bear it went down like a hammer hit him then stopped got up and tried again. My smith said after the first one through the chest the bear did keep trying to get to him but was really slow so he just kept shooting until the bear gave up. He said it was not like the bear kept charging at 30mph he was hurt and was more at a fast walk or slow trot so to speak. Alaskajim sounds like you have shot some bears with a 340 and have had no trouble and thats a good thing. Thank you both for you comments and good hunting. | |||
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Dakor I think you have a good handle on the whole bear thing. Here's something to keep in mind when making a value jugement on your rifle for bear. They arn't deer. Most peole havent experianced and animal that can soak up lead like a bear. I had a hunter once who shot his bear with a .375. After the first shot the bear dropped and he bent over and picked up his brass. I said leave the brass alone and shoot the bear again. His reply was why and about that time the bear stood up. after the forth shot I slapped his hand as he reached for his brass and on the fith the job was done. Another hunter shot a bear with a .300 H&H and it went down I told him to shoot again and he turned around and said he's down as the hunter looked at me instead of the bear it got up and ran. His second shoot droped him again and when I told him to shoot again the responce was the same and again the bear got up and ran. this time right in to a beaver pond and now I'm saying don't shoot till he gets out of the water but the bear crawled up on the beaver loadge and died. When I started to skin him he slid into the water and That skinning job ended up taking five hours up to my waste in really cold water. What ever you shoot just keep the lead flying and just listen to the guide. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Akshooter I will be using either a 375 H&H with 270gr Failsafes or a 375 IMP with either the 300gr failsafe or 300gr Barnes TSX. The 300win I am bringing up is for my Brother in law to use since he only has a 308 and that will be loaded with 200gr TSX bullets. He really can't handle more then a 300win. This is a self guided hunt we are going with one of his friends that has hunted bear before. As of right now we are hunting inland Browns or Grizz what ever you would like to call them. I am just hoping I can make it up there this fall I am crossing my fingers. Thanks again for info I agee that most people have no idea that is including myself as I have not hunted one either but I made this post so others that might think about going don't listen to some and go out and buy a 50bmg that they cannot handle. | |||
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Dakor, I may have missed something but are you and your brother coming up here to hunt griz with one of his friends. Is he a guide? If not you may want to re-think your plan since it would be illegal. If i'm wrong and he is a guide, I apologize. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Dakor , -- I'm entering your thread very respectfully , because , I think we apparently disagree on what is adequate power to stop a earnest , close- range , large Brown Bear charge . ( See other threads ) . I'm not sure we disagree at all in what we're after in truth and information . It sounds like you have a lot more field experience than I , and I respect that and give full creedence to your opinions . -- If I take a different position on a subject , it's because of my understanding at that point in time , and I welcome counterpoint . -- That's how I learn , via this Forum , on subjects that are very interesting to me . The point I'd like to raise on this thread , is a perspective that I've wondered about during many similar ( subject ) threads . It seems that many experts that have , " walked the walk " ; -- tell of stopping Brown bear charges with SUB-African type Stopping cartridges . -- And they tell of stopping the Bear successfully . Maybe it's a thing of pride , and folks don't like to tell of NOT being successful ; -- but I have yet to hear an account of an experienced Guide or expert Bear Hunter , where he tells of getting himself or a member of his party chewed up , and what they were shooting at the time . --- And especially , what they will be carrying next time out . To me , that would be extremely valuable information . I have read of many African hunters having close calls with .375 and .458 , -- and then moving up to a Double Gun , and/or a more powerful " stopping " cartridge , ( including Elmer Keith , himself ) . But nothing so far in this Forum , ( although I have not gone back into the archives and read older threads ) . Just thought I'd throw the inquiry into this thread , which promises to be a good one . ------------ Best Regards , ---- MMCOUGAR . NRA Benefactor Member ---- 2nd Amend. -- They could have said , " The Right of Such a Militia " ; ----- But they didn't , they said " . . . . . The right of the PEOPLE " . | |||
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mmconcolor What did you just say and did you address it to Dakor. What I got from your post is that your of the opinon that a Brown bear would requier more stopping power than the .300s and ,338, 375s we have mentioned here. It is subjective to say what works especialy when the conditions that dictate the moment are rarly consistant. Bottom line is my earlier post have addressed as many of the perimeters that come into play when hunting brown bear. Sometimes you have a client who just can't handle a really large bore rifle sometimes you may need a rifle that can deliver a accurate shot at 300 yards because the bear was wounded and after a couple of follow up shots your last chance to finnish him or make the final stock that much safer is to put a bullet in him as he crest over that last ridge. And maybe you have a client who can only make that long follow up shot count if it is done with his trusty old elk rifle. There is a big deferance between guide rifles and a hunters rifle. In a perfect world we would all be able to shoot one inch groups from a standing posistion with a .460 Weathrby and only laugh at the weight of the gun while making that gut wrenching stalk up the side of the mountain but our world isn't perfect and we need to balance out what will be right for the situation considering all of the variables. I say the best way to gadge this is through experiance. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Joel/AK My Brother in-law lives in Wasilla AK so I fall under the Second Kin rule. No his friend is not a guide he just hunts bear. mmconcolor a guide was mawled last year after a wounded bear charged him and he was only able to get off one shot because his rifle jammed. The bear chewed on him a little bit then died. He was using a 416rem which has the same power as a 458win. Are we going to start saying a 416 is not big enough for Browns? Certain mistakes were made prior to the charge. The client made a bad shot the bear got in heavy cover and the guide did not give the bear much time because he had another hunting party coming in the next day. Add that all up with a rifle jamming and I would have to say this is a rare incident. | |||
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What guide was killed? Did it happen in Alaska? My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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As I read the story, it was the bear that died, not the guide. the bear was mortally wounded, chewed on the guide who's rifle had jammed, and then died from the only shot the guide was able to get off. Regards, Brian  Meet "Beauty" - 66 cal., 417 grn patched roundball over 170 grns FFg = ~1950 fps of pure fun! "Scotch Whisky is made from barley and the morning dew on angel's nipples." - Warren Ellis NRA Life Member | |||
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I guess I should have written that a little better but the BEAR died not the guide. Yes it happen in Alaska. Here is the link if you want to read about it. https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp.../600108131#600108131 | |||
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** REPLY TO AKSHOOTER ** Just re-read my post ( above ) , Yes , I was replying direct to Dakor , and believe I started by addressing his Handle . Sorry if I wasn't clear . -- It occured to me that another angle on Dakor's question would be whether or not the Guides whose opinions he's seeking ; -- recommended a certain level of power in their favorite Brown Bear cartridge , -- simply because they had always been successful in stopping , charges with them -- ?? What I was thinking was that if the guide was really a masterful shooter under stress , and most always placed his stopping shots precisely , -- the rifle / cartridge that was his favorite , -- may not be same stuff an average shot or a novice would want to carry . Dakor was also asking ( IMHO ) , if the various cartridges he mentioned were , " enough gun " , in the opinion of the Guides , -- ( to stop a BB charge with a well placed shot ) . -- He's looking to get their opinion on what level of stopping power they consider adequate . Guess I was thinking that if the Guide had the talents of African Legends like K. Bell or John Taylor , what he felt was " enough gun " , would not indicate much of a guideline on weapon/cartridge choice to the rest of us . But , -- if the Guide had experienced a point , where he became aware that he WASN'T using enough power on BB , and moved up in his personal choice ; --- then if he described that process , -- that would be the most important information of all . Just thinking out loud . I agree that there's lots of variables in this subject , and any general statement , is going to run into specific circumstances where , -- it ain't true . Dakor makes a good point that maybe 95% of novices anticipating their first Brown Bear hunt , can't hit well with recoil levels produced by a cartridge that is adequate to stop a large bear with one shot placed , center-of-mass , on a frontal charge . And maybe that's a big part of the problem we're discussing , here . I also agree that the ideal back-up " Stopping Rifle " , ain't necessarily the same as what you need to " Hunt " a bear with . --------------- Good Thread , ----- MMCOUGAR . NRA Benefactor Member ---- 2nd Amend. -- They could have said , " The Right of Such a Militia " ; ----- But they didn't , they said " . . . . . The right of the PEOPLE " . | |||
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mmconcolor I just asked if those cals I mentioned work not for my own mind but to hear experiances from people who have it so other people wondering the same thing can be pointed to this post and get some real world data. I have no doubt in my mind the rifle I am using will stop any bear that walks the earth. As long as I put the bullets where they are supposed to be. You mention a guides shooting skills and if the reason they can get away with a certain cal is because they shoot better then the average shot. Then you brought up the fact that the average shot might need more power then a good shot. Well from what I have seen on game more power will not do anything for you if you can't put the bullets where they are supposed to go. If you shoot a bear or what ever in the guts with a 458 lott you are not going to get as good as results as if you hit him in the vitals with a 30/06. | |||
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** Dakor , -- Reckon you're exactly right . NRA Benefactor Member ---- 2nd Amend. -- They could have said , " The Right of Such a Militia " ; ----- But they didn't , they said " . . . . . The right of the PEOPLE " . | |||
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The single most important factor in stopping any big game is bullet placement. Period. Like most Alaskan guides, when I started guiding I carried a 30-06 and found out that as long as I did my part it worked very well. In fact I am certain it still will. I may even be carrying one again this spring with 240 gr Woodleigh bullets. While I have learned that larger calibers can give faster results they only work better if they are correctly placed. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I have never shot a BB never seen a charge...458 Win is right. The only way to instantly stop an adrenalined filled animal is to interupt the CNS. I would highly doubt that a 30O WM in the brain/spine will have any less affect than a 416 rem mag in the brain/spine. By the way, I can't imagine trying to shoot the spine on a charging animal. Is a 416 rem mag in the heart/lung area or broken shoulder shot better than a 30O WM in the heart lung area or broken shoulder shot , you bet is...but there are many variables that one does not want to leave to chance that will determine how quickly (remember seconds count here) the fight ends when a heart/lung or shoulder shot occurs that are unrelated to cartridge selection. The better selection is adequate caliber say 338 WM class and up that the shooter can handle well for recoil and quick follow up shots in a 100% reliable rifle. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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mike; 2 good comparisions there. +1 Cold Zero | |||
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*** QUOTE GROUCHO MARX : -- YOU BET YOUR LIFE *** MIKE_DETTORE makes this point in another thread , -- ( not an exact quote , but something like ); .... Get real , -- nobody can read a bears intentions with reliability ! Then , COLD ZERO'S point , ( also on another thread ) ; tells of a friend , (Brad) , who had had lots of Bear-encounters with no bad outcomes , ( i.e. , safe encounters ) ; -- leading him to the ERRONOUS impression that he had special knowledge or control, which gave him an edge in staying safe in Bear-Country . He had " confidence " about Bear-encounters . -- Until he had a profound , close call . In fact , there's a possibility that the more talented a sucessful , highly experienced , Hunter or Guide is , -- ( in reading Bear sign and behavior ); -- and the more successful they've been in AVOIDING attacks ; -- the more they might come to trust their judgement , and feel confidence in it . Although such a psychology would be very much , " human nature " , -- it might also be a deadly and erronous state of mind . Perhaps the truth is , that , like the recently publicized , " Grizzly Man " of the Grizzly-Maze book , an outdoorsman might be extremely expert on reading Bear behavior ; -- but they just havn't run into the wrong Bear , in the wrong circumstances , yet . I personally believe that that Bears , like people , are , at the end of the day , -- UNPREDICTABLE . And the real enemy , is not being PREPARED , for a bad scenario . Another enemy would be , OVERCONFIDENCE . I further believe that a big part of being prepared , is to carry , and shoot WELL , -- Ruark's fabled , " Enough Gun " . There is a Two-Edged-Sword argument going on in this , and several other , similar threads on Brown Bears . -- ( Or maybe its a " Double-Bind " argument , where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't ) . I agree very strongly with Dakor's ( the author's ) point that we have to be ethically responsible to novices or first timers who read these threads . -- Our recommendations could , in the field , have real consequences . Dakor is concerned about stampeeding folks into buying fire breathin' monster rifles that they probably can't shoot . -- I'm more worried about outfitting them with inadequate cartridges , that a charging Bruin will eat for breakfast and then have the hunter , ( or Guide ) for dessert . If you recommend either way , -- you could get somebody killed . It's a double-bind argument . The novice could flinch from a gun he can't handle , pull his placement off , and loose the game ; -- OR , pop an incoming frontal , with a BEAUTIFULLY , placed , center-of-mass hit from an underpowered cartridge , -- and loose the game just as well . You can't even always depend on a back-up shooter . -- Sometimes Bears attack the rear hiker on a trail , and sometimes only one person in the party has a clear , " stopping " shot , before it's too late . Two things I believe , without doubt . -- One , that most Attacks where contact is made , are so close-in and so fast , that one or two high stress shots are all you can expect , ( IF you're lucky ) . --- The other , is that nobody can be sure of making a Brain or spine shot on an animal that closes at 37 ft. per Second , while bobbing up and down , somewhat . I would almost say , -- ( and would definitely say to Solo-Hunters , and /or those without EXPERT back-up shooters ) ; -- if you can't shoot a .416 (or up) , VERY well , -- .... DON'T GO AFTER the big Coastal Browns ! -- I would say the same of .375 H&H or up , for the smaller interior Grizzlys . .... Then I would feel that my advice wouldn't get someone killed . Just my humble opinion , Gentlemen . --------------------------------- MMCOUGAR . NRA Benefactor Member ---- 2nd Amend. -- They could have said , " The Right of Such a Militia " ; ----- But they didn't , they said " . . . . . The right of the PEOPLE " . | |||
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i don't want to be misquated, so i will weigh in here. brad is not my friend . he was the stupid tree hugger who got eaten along with his girlfiend. anyone who goes into bear country unarmed is a fool. the grizzly man. the tragic part was that the g friend got eaten not brad... a good hit from a smaller caliber is always better than a poor hit from a larger caliber. we can debate all day whether such a caliber is inadequate or adequate. i think we can agree that shot placement is the #1 thing. too many non-res hunters go to ak. with the latest uber magnum still with the tags hanging off the rifle because they are too afraid of the recoil and don't want to shoot it. many have poor marksmanship skills to begin with. there is more than one reason most guides keep b.b. client's shots within 150 or even 100 yds. they can't shoot. for the record. i shoot a .340 wthby and i feel that in my hands, it is completely adequate for grizzly or b.b.. i have an 11' b.b. at home proving it is adequate for even the largest bears. i also feel that it is more versatile than a .375 h.&h. for use in n.america.  granted in africa the .375 is a the better choice. in n.a. for a 350 yd. shot on elk which is the better choice? .340 gives more flat reach for n.a. and hits plenty hard. i considered a .375 in place of the .340 and i feel the .340 is the beter choice for n.a. besides the bigger bears, what dangerous game is there in n.a. that calls for such a heavy caliber?  i invite one of the handloaders here to post the numbers here for both of these calibers. i shoot my .340 as well as any of my .300's. i also killed a moose with the .340 on a 250 yd. neck shot and the msse could not hit the ground fast enough. i hit from an abrams tank would not have put him dam any faster. i would like to read an a.a.r., when .458 w.m. shoots a b.b. with his 240 gr. woodleighs. it should be interesting... typed twice due to dam computers...  Cold Zero | |||
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458Win thank you for commenting on the subject. That really says something when a guide who has a 458win says he has had good results with a 30/06 and plans to use it again. Can you let us know how those 240's shoot? If they shoot and work well for you I will have to give them a try in my 300win. | |||
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Everything is a compromise. Carry one of each, pepper spray, a boot knife, a 44 mag handgun, a 500 magnum, a sawed off shotgun with buckshot, a shotgun with slugs, a 30-06, a 338, a 416 or a 458 and a double rifle 500. Everything is a compromise. Nothing is perfect for every situation. | |||
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Another great post, from everyone, good and nasty both. Doubt I'll ever make it to AK. Been tryin since the folks drove up in '67 and never made it even when driving for ten years on the very same truck that had made three trips to Prudhoe within 5 months of when I got on it. IF that ain't a jinx, I'd hate to see one. I also read the link above about Scott Newman getting chewed up. What I'd like to know now. Is: How did he heal up? Is he still guiding? Was there any hearing and what came of it? What caliber, load, bullets etc has Newman used since that bear attack? Did his client ever make public statements as to what happened and why he shot etc.? Where can I read them? I've got a big problem trying to figure out how these/you bb guides can even walk around up there with the size balls you're packin!!! Damned right, I admire you guys, and your judgement. I wish you all well in never getting chewed on, or worse. Has everyone read the posts and seen the pictures about the polar bear chewing on the guy? (who says bears are not dangeous) Mighty painful looking wounds. Thanks to all, George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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I talked with Scott at SCI this year about his mauling and about backup rifles. Scott was using a 416 Rem and was planning on ordering a 458 Lott at the show from either Lon Paul or D'Arcy Echols. I did not talk to him at the end of the show so don't know what he finally decided on. He is still guiding and if anyone is looking for an excellent bear guide I can recommend him. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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25 yrs of bear guiding has me convinced of 1 thing,all my rifles are to heavy. A superlite 35 whelan imp with a Swift bullet would be a nice carrying rig and it would have all the power you'd ever need for any bear on earth. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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I've noticed all my rifles seem to be putting on weight as well. I just had a 9.3x62 ftw stainless bll put on an old pre-64 M-70 and am waiting for a new featherweight Echols?McMillian to arrive. I expect it will do about the same as your Whelen improved. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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You would be splitting hairs to say a bear would know the differance between the 9.3 x 62 and the imp whelen. next week I start my 27th year guiding bears and one thing is for sure. I'm getting old. I had a real nice .35 whelen built about 20 years and 30 bears ago. At the time I just thought it was cool but maybe I had it in the back of my mind that these days would come and at about two pounds lighter than my .338 more for my .375 and .458 I might want to give it a try for bear. I have't shot a bear with it yet but it sure did a job on a couple of buffalo a few years ago DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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AKshooter, sounds like you have been at this game about as long as I have. The one thing I absolutely hate about these forums is the anonimity. Who am I corresponding with ? One of the quickest kills I've ever seen on a huge bull moose was from a kid who was using a 35 Whelen Imp and 250 Barnes Bullets. I used a 35 Whelen for a few years and my son now uses it when guiding in the Brooks and Alaska range. I used the 375 Scovill (aka 9.5x62) or 366 Whelen Improved and know from experience that it whacks big bears with about as much authority as the 375 H&H. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Phil: Thanks for the update on Newman. Until reading that link I'd never heard of him. But, that don't mean anything as I've never been up that way and doubt I ever will. Folks drove up in 67 and Dad crawled around the bear tunnels on Admiralty, slept on the beach one night and 1/4 mile up in another tunnel the next day came across a fresh pile and realized how damned stupid he was and couldn't get off there quick enough. Never did see a bb. Wish you all well, George L. Dwight (P: just for you, ok?) Pueblo, CO "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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*** COLD ZERO *** Sorry about the misquote , ( above ) , pardner . Guess I must have read it wrong . Appreciated the input and the ideas , though , as usual . ---------- Best Regards , -- MMCOUGAR . NRA Benefactor Member ---- 2nd Amend. -- They could have said , " The Right of Such a Militia " ; ----- But they didn't , they said " . . . . . The right of the PEOPLE " . | |||
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M.M.C.C. , i may have not made my point clear enough, NO issues here.  i am not even sure if that nutty tree hugger that was eaten w/ the g-friend was brad or not? he was found by andrew air who had flown him in. they are good b.t.w. i have used them several times w/o issues. i beleive a documentary was made about that called the grizzly -----? the guy was a fool and i would not want anyone to think i support that type of thing. being properly armed in bear country keeps you from being dinner.  Cold Zero | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Alaska Hunting Forum Can We get some facts from some Brown Bear Guides?
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