I just found out that the unlikely happened. I drew unit 139 for the last hunt. I wanted to share the good news with my friends at accuratereloading.

I drew the park in 2002 for the first hunt and was successful. So this time, i will hold out for something exceptional and i will be inside the park 3-4 days before the season opens for scouting.

does anyone know what the weather/temp/snow will be like at that time, at that altitude?

You are a lucky boy! If you are in there early the weather might be quite nice but we are talking Alaska and even the Chugach can be shitty in August.

Good luck!

Mark

Depends on the year really, but count on snow, 05 was a perfect year for the hunt you drew.....good for you!

-Ron

I'll let ya know when I head out of there. I drew DS137 which is August 23rd thru September 4th.

Good luck!

b.w.

congrats on your draw. good luck.

i will be up there 8-10 days after your hunt ends. of course, i would appreciate any info about weather, et al, that you can provide about conditions in the park.

could someone give an approximate on what the temp is like the third week of sept. and whether there is likely to be snow on the ground or falling during that hunt? cold does not bother me , as it is all in the way your dressed. however, slimey slippery rocks will only slow me down.

many thanks.

I can't believe you got drawn for a second Chugach Park hunt!!! Lucky Dog!

Late September in the park, expect snow at elevation. Nothing deep, but enough for it to stay around and make everything greasy slick. Temps will likely hover around the mid twenties to thirties for the highs, probably not much colder for the lows. September can be a windy month in the Park in the high country, so bring some good windbreaking rain/snow gear.

Who will you book with for the guide?

dphilips;

the funny thing is, that generally i am very unlucky and never win anything or get any breaks. however, i must say that i have been lucky with this lottery for some reason. i applied 5 times to draw it the first time and 4 times to draw it the second time. the outfitter had a guy from n.j. draw it 2 years in a row. i thought that was mathematically impossible.

sounds like the wind chill will be something fierce. that's o.k., i would rather have snow than rain. last time it rained for 5 days and nights straight.

I will be hunting with the "sheep terminator" Dan Montgomery, alaska trophy adventures.

anyone have any recomendations for new restaurants in anchorage? i did not go up there in 2005, first time i missed a year in 9 years. i might even find time to hit the a.b.c. club while there. twist my arm...

Keep in mind, we have had some really squirrely weather the last couple of falls and temps have been well above normal. Usually have termination dust in the park around the third week of September, though. Look for mix of rain and snow. The snow can be your friend though, while sheep hunting. Tends to bring the big boys out of their hidey holes to where you can actually get to them.

dphilips;

thanks for the meteorological info on late sept in the park.

i was thinking the same thing about the big boys coming out to feed and coming to mower elev. at that time in the season. guess we will have to wait until sept. to find out for sure.

many thanks.

You are luky. I've put in for a park tag for the past twenty years or more and have yet to draw. I did alot of scouting last year for a freind with a tag and might have some info for you. wich area is # 139

b.w.;

congrats on drawing the second hunt. in 2002, i drew the first hunt, 2006 will be the third hunt. cold is good, hope the big boys survive till the end.

akshooter;
i will look that up and get back to you. info' is golden, especially if it is good and current. thanks...

I guess you're a write-off for spring bear in our parts then, eh?

Congrats ... that reminds me to check on desert sheep draws...

Frans

It's not hard to be a "sheep terminator" if you spend as much time scouting from the air as Dan does. There is no way you can have the sort of success rate he does unless you have many hours of super cub time invested in finding legal rams for each and every client. Dan is not the only guide to do this, but he certainly has "terminated" a lot of super cub located rams in the Chugach making it tougher for for resident hunters who fly in and try to find a ram the hard way, with our feet.

chisana;

it is good that we both agree that over-flying the park is not illegal and many other guides do that.

i wonder if that is why R. & R guide service gets the guy who bids/wins the governor's permit year after year. you have to remember they are a much bigger co. and have a squadron of aircraft that overfly the park. if you could afford to outbid everyone else, then you could afford to hunt with whoever you choose regardless of price.

as for the locals, and you guys know i love you. over 50% of locals who actually draw the permit, do not even enter the park to hunt. could that have something to do with why the # of tags drawn by residents compared to sheep actually taken could be lower than hunters who are guided? sometimes i think some guys just apply, so they can tell their buddies in the bar, that they drew the sheep permit. these same guys never even go into the park to hunt.

as for finding sheep on foot. when i hunted the park in 2002, i personally observed and photographed a crashed supercub way in the back of my unit that unfortunately involved 2 fatalies who were sheep hunters "hunting by foot" well inside the park. anyone who is familiar with that incident feel free to chime in here.

have you hunted with dan?

i have, and i can tell you that neither myself nor dan would get involved in anything illegal no matter how big the sheep was.

since you have not hunted with him i can also tell you that there are other reasons for the 100% success rate that he has consistently had over the years, both inside and outside the park.

he is a small operation and takes only a small #, about 7-8 sheep hunters per year. he has more clients than he wants to accomodate. therefore, he has the ability to screen the clients. he does not take the typical 50-60 y.o.a. overweight desk jockey that many outfitters are unfortunately saddled with. do you think it is easy to "terminate" park sheep, when your pack a day client is having a heart attack at the bottom of the hill lugging all of his still tagged/never used equipment and wanting to go home? dan's avg. client is in his 30's (like i was lastime and will be this time) works outside and is very fit and serious about his sheep hunt. many of them have actually hunted ak. before. i filed a hunt report here on a.r. in the hunt reports board, if anyone wants to dig it out.

dan is exceptionally experienced and knowledagble about sheep hunting especially inside the park. more so than the avg. sheep guide. he has an uncommonly seen level of fitness and willingness to literally go the extra mile, that i have not seen in other guides and i have hunted ak. a lot. i am a demanding customer who is not easy to please. are you tracking with me here? can you see how this could help the success rate substantially?

i can not control where free ranging sheep go and they may even wander outside my unit area or the park itself.

what i can control is the following:

as last time around, my fitness will be such that i can go where i need to go at the same speed my guide goes, one step behind him with the ability to carry 100+ lb. loads for as long as necessary. always maintaining a positive outlook and 110% effort.

if i can only get a broadside lazed 600 yd. shot on a wind calm day, that will be a dead sheep.

i will maintain a positive attitude no matter how crappy the weather gets or how bad our chances of success look, till my hunting time is over.

i will rely on my guides judgement as he has proven to me it is sound and do what i am told, when i am told to do it, till the very end.

have the best equipment money can buy and technology can offer, to give us the best chance for a successful outcome.

b.t.w. the 160+ sheep dan had observed before the start of the season and had told me about, was no where to be found when the season opened. the sheep in the park are not behind a high fence, they can and do move around and there are no guarantees of success in fair chase hunting. p.s. i shot a 154 and that was the biggest one that could be found in my unit.

if you do a lot of quality scouting in your unit right before your hunt and can devote the time needed to be successful. then i am sure that you will be successful, whether you do scouting by air or not. good luck.

good luck on your hunt.

i was right with you until you said 600 yds...
sheesh!

I've been in the business a long time (26 years) and I've never heard anything bad about Dan Montgomery but I've never met him.

By the way R&R didn't have the govenor's tag winner last year.

a couple of points here fellas.

homerdave;
a minute of angle shot at 600, puts all rounds inside a 6" cirlce. that gives about 2-3 inches to spare on the sheeps vital zone. i carry with me a range finder, bean bag and a rifle rest that quick attaches to the top on my tripod. i do compete and recently took a 6th. place finish at a match. i have had substantial training with the scoped rifle and know my limitations and am confident in what i am able to do. key thing here being calm to 0 wind, which is also unlikely at altitude. with wind 300-400 yds. i keep a waterproof drop and wind table on my rifle. i also would not hesitate to pass up a shot that is too risky or beyond my ability.

akshooter;
so far i have found dan to be the most reliable and honest outfitter that i have worked with to date. i wish he hunted more animals so that i could go with him more. he does not hunt caribou, moose or black bear. unfortunately, i have had well more than my share of outfitters that i could not reccomend.

before someone misunderstands the long post above. i merely pointed out some of the possible reasons that the actual success rate for residents is lower than guided non residents. i think we all know that many of the most dedicated and best sheep hunters in the world live in ak. so no slight was directed toward them and i hope none was taken.

Cold Zero,

I have no argument with anyhting you said and never implied that you or Dan would do anything illegal. My point was that Dan uses the aircraft to assist in finding sheep and that is a big part of his 100% success rate. Part of his success is also due to the other factors you mentioned. I know he uses the aricraft to find sheep before and during hunts because I have seen him do it, spoken with air taxi operators who work the same area and spoken to a guide who formerly worked with him. The guide and air taxi both told me the same thing. I'm not trying to single Dan out, because this practice is pretty common in the guide industry in Alaska and I understand that, but I had to laugh when you called Dan a sheep terminator. When you use a loaded word like that it makes people think that the kill is all that matters and frankly so does telling us that you will take a 600 yard shot.

There are lots of other guides who are 100% on sheep too and it is due to having the rams located by aircraft. If everyone used aricraft to the same extent that many of the guides do sheep hunting would be a lot different in Alaska.

BTW, what match did you place sixth in? I have shot high power all over the country. We probably know some of the same people.

akshooter;

thanks for the info. who did have the governor's permit last year?

chisana:

p.m. sent regarding match info.

it is nice to have a discussion that does not degenerate into the childish bickering as so often happens.

marco polo sheep are regularly taken at 600 yds. and well beyond. at altitudes that can be 14-17,000 feet. i would think that it is much harder to shoot long range when you can't catch your breath.

not to make the noose any tighter, but, if i am 300 yds. and in , again under the right conditions, i will and prefer to take the neck shot. thought you would get a kick out of that.

i have never been a heart/lung shooter. i shoot shoulder or neck. i like the neck due to no tracking, no suffering for the animal and the dramatic end that it brings.

as for the kill and my approach to it. i am a trophy hunter, not a meat hunter. i frequently go home empty handed because of this and the same may well happen on this hunt as i will not drop the hammer on anything less than the low 160's. even though i think that sheep meat is the best i have ever had. of the animals i do take they are animals that i am proud of. although, i do beleive that the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. i will enjoy myself even if i do not get a sheep, as you know i take my hunting very seriously. i feel this lottery permit should be viewed as a once in a lifetime opportunity and should be treated as such. i am very lucky to get a second chance at it. sometimes it is not meant to be. all i ask for is 110% effort from my guide and i am sure that i will have that.

getting back to the flying. i can not comment on what some anomymous former employee may have said. i can tell you what i do know and that is that dan did at my request fly the park before i arrived and i know he did not fly while i hunted, as he was with me the whole time. the flying had no impact on my hunt that i am aware of. the sheep he had seen from the air, was no where to be found. i know because we looked for him for at least 5 days. although, you did not intend to single dan out, that is just what you did do. since you are there and more knowledgable than i, who else have you seen scouting the park by air?

quote:

it is good that we both agree that over-flying the park is not illegal

Technically that is correct. Not singling anyone at all out here, because tons of folks do it, but it IS illegal to use an aircraft to "harass" wildlife. The FAA's definition of harassment include's "to disturb". I've yet to meet the guy who can tell a full curl from a 7/8 at the 1-2 mile range that most sheep become "disturbed."

Bob

Don Schwandt guided for the winner of the govenors tag. They were up on several 40 plus rams but wanted at least 170 points.

I'd like to add my opinion about those who have the privlage of scouting rams from the air. It's just not as easy as some of you make it out to be. Don't think that you simply spot your ram and waltz up there the next day and take him.
I have to say that it's news to me that the F.A.A. regulates the diturbance of animals I haven't noticed that in the F.A.R.'s defanetly both the state of Alaska and feds have laws pertaining to the harrasing of animals but I am of the understanding that U.S.F&W.S. regulates that for the feds and not F.A.A. Anyway my experiance tells me that unlike bears, sheep are not very sensitive to the presences of aircraft and arn't disterbed by a plane a couple hundred yards away with an observer and opticks.

Akshooter, it's fed law, but mentioned on http://www.alaska.faa.gov/at/notices/parks.htm in reference to nat. parks. It's also written on the bottom of every vfr sectional that has a nat. park, monument, etc, but applies everywhere.

"Pilots are warned that it is unlawful at any altitude to use an aircraft to harass any wildlife
(16 USC 742j-1; 50 CFR Part 19). Harass is defined to mean disturb, worry, molest, rally, concentrate, harry, chase, drive, herd or torment."

The scary part is the law allows for forfiture of planes, guns, etc, used to harass just as though you went ahead and shot the thing from the plane! Having said that, I'd like to see the jury that convicted a pilot of "worrying' a sheep.

Bob

thanks for posting the law. however, i did not see in there where it says what the distance is that becomes illegal. isn't possible to over fly the area at a distance that would not violate this law?

i know dan flies with 10 power binos and as for telling a 7/8 from a full curl. my sheep was scored from over one mile away thru glass and the prediction was off by 1/8 of one point. lucky, maybe, but that is a lot less than an 1/8 of a curl.

akshooter;

i am not familiar with the guide who guided the governor's permit last year. did they take a sheep, score? where does he operate out of? does he have a plane?

Don doesn't have a plane. They didn't take a ram on that hunt because the hunter was being unrealistick on trophy size.
The sectionals do mention flight restrictions over national parks and indeed flight below 2000 feet is restricted except for take off and landing but this only applies to hard park and not everywhere. Otherwise you can fly as close to the ground as you want as long as you don't disterb the wildlife. There are other exceptions to this such as populated areas etc. Anyway there is no need for going tit for tat about this. It boils down to common sense if you fly so close to some rams that they get up from there beds and move away I'd say your pushing the law or outright breaking it. Imagen your doing this and someone is stalking those rams. I could see you getting convicted. Even if not who would want to pay an attorny to get out of it. I wouldn't risk it. There is a case right now that I've noticed on these boards where a guide named Edward Lamb is in the middle of just this kind of infraction.

Coldzero, I'm not trying to throw stones, by any means, and Dan certainly has a good reputation. Moose spotting aircraft are a source of big frustration in some parts of the state, and its mostly us residents doing it.

Your view towards hunting and mine sound pretty close. Prep hard, work hard, hunt hard, and enjoy it, even if you come home empty handed. I also drew for the park this year and plan plenty of 28 mile round trip weekends for glassing, because I'm fortunate enough to have that option and it just builds the excitement.

Have you decided on a rifle/load yet? I'm still up in the air myself, but leaning towards 165barnes/30-06.

Bob

I just looked up your permit number 139. It's for all 14C hunt areas except for the east fork of Eklutna. That gives you alot of options.

The problem with scouting for a late season hunt is that the ram you want may be gone by the time your hunt comes up. I'm sure that Dan will have a plan and a backup for just that.

This year should hold some exceptional rams because not many of the biggest rams were taken last year.

omnivorous bob;
just making sure both sides of the story are told and all points are covered to be fair to all parties. no problems here. congrats on drawing your tag, which unit and hunt did you draw?
i think that an .06 with 165 barnes is a fine choice. i am sure a .270, .280, 7mm would be fine as well. i shoot everything with .30 and better. i have a win' .30-06 pre 64 of course , set up alaska style synthetic stock and stainless steel and boss system which i beleive is no longer offered. with a little gunsmith work it is a tack driver. i do prefer the n.p. though. i almost always get a one shot kill. may be old tech' but you can't do better than that. barnes, swift a frame are fine, stay away from the t.b.b.c..

akshooter;
sorry for the slow reply.
i drew the first hunt last time and your point is well taken. the big boy may be taken by the time my turn comes. maybe the cold and snow and lady luck will work with me. i have taken several very large animals, however i am very good at going home empty handed as well. it could well happen on this hunt as well. i will not shoot anything 160 or under. yes, dan told me i can hunt most of the park with that tag and that surpised me. i would think that would increse my chances. i will hunt till the last minute and we can move around and cover a lot of ground. if there is a big one left, he will find it as he know s the whole park like he does his own house.

p.m. sent.

there will be rams over 160 left by the time you get to your hunt. I saw 7 rams at least 160 and over last tear when I scouted the area.
I'm sure a couple where taken but I'm sure some other rams have grown in the last year.

A freind At fish & game told me that only a couple rams over 160 where taken last year so for sure some of the really big rams I saw last year are still there.

BW,

I drew the same tag DS137.. As a Non Res. what can i expect on the weather front for our time frame. Also will you be hunting on your own or hiring a Sheep Terminator for this special tag..

AK

Coldzero, I've got 135, the north side of Eagle River, 5-17 Sept. I believe only one sheep has come from there each of the last 2 years, so has 'big boy' potential again. I've got a few handloads plus a couple of factory load to test out this weekend. I can't wait!

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by akrange:
BW,

I drew the same tag DS137.. As a Non Res. what can i expect on the weather front for our time frame. Also will you be hunting on your own or hiring a Sheep Terminator for this special tag..

AK

I'm not exactly sure, as I don't live in Anchortown. Since it's August, I expect something in the 40 degree range. But it could go either way.

I'm going with a friend who lives near there, and has hunted Sheep in that area for many years. Plus my son now lives up there, so I'm going to ask him to come along too. I'm hoping to use him as a porter.

Cold Zero,

What bullet did ya use last time to take your Sheep "02".. I have used Fail Safes in a 7mm mag on Sheep, Grizz, Elk,Red Deer.. They get the job done.. I have yet to find one in any of the game i've shot from 75yrds to over 400yrd..
Have you posted on Hunting Report.. Was looking at DM "02" recap and didn't see your picture. Did he forget to put you in for "02"
AK

AK

akshooter;

thanks for the good scouting info. any input on how many book rams may be in the park?

o.b.
i wonder if your unit is the same as the upper eagle river that i took my ram out of in 2002. sounds like to the same, i will have to check the unit # that i had.

akrange;

i think that the 7mm would be a fine choice for sheep, although not mine. for the grizzly, red deer and elk, i think there are better choices. personally, i shoot everything with .30 cal except for the big bears and moose, i use .340 wthby with 250 gr. n.p.. guess that is why there are 100 different kinds of beer, different strokes for diff' folks. this is what works for me. i almost always get one shot kills. until my n.p. or cal' fails to do the job cleanly, i won't switch.

i shot my sheep with handloads .300 w.m. 180 gr. n.p., bang flop. i do not use bullets lighter than 180 gr.

now that you have jogged my memory, no dan did not put me in the re cap for 2002, as he had no photos of my sheep. so no soup for me. i am sure that if successful in 06, we will not make that oversight again. we used real film in 02 and this time i will use digital. any of my friends here on a.r./ak. board interested in seeing me and my sheep or me dan and my sheep, can email me and we will send photos. i lack the computer skills that so many other guys here have to post the photos inside this thread. which would have been nice...

reading this thread. i am getting a warm fuzzy feeling that there will be some big sheep in the park this fall.

Cold Zero

was wondering if your initails are JB... The same JB that posted a report on DM on The Hunting Report in"02".
As far as beer is concern that is also a matter of field testing..The more you test the more you define ..
AK

as for the weather. when i was there for my aug 10-20 hunt i saw heavy rain, high winds and strong wind chill factor and at higher altitude some snow. warmest temp mid 50' coldest mid 20's. i keep a thermometer hanging from my zipper .

for anyone interested in reading the a.r. report for my hunt on the world wide hunt report board i searched and found it. it was called "dall sheep hunt, alaska trophy adventures" , it started 18 oct. 03 or can be found by searching my username and looking on page 20.

Cold Zero

Thanks for the weather report on your last hunt in the Chugach..
I have looked at both your reports and thank you for those reports..
Is there anything else one should know about Hunting in the park.. Some piece of equipment your adding to your "must"list for "06"..
Who was your next pick for guide if DM wasn't avalable for your "02" hunt..
AK

quote:

Originally posted by akrange:
Cold Zero

Thanks for the weather report on your last hunt in the Chugach..
I have looked at both your reports and thank you for those reports..
Is there anything else one should know about Hunting in the park.. Some piece of equipment your adding to your "must"list for "06"..
Who was your next pick for guide if DM wasn't avalable for your "02" hunt..
AK

the other co. i looked at was r and r guide service. i went with a smaller co. that could give greater personal attention and my preference is to hunt with the outfitter when ever possible. d.m. had taken the largest b.and c. sheep the year before and won some award at f.n.a.w.s. for it. these factors made me go with him and it was a good decision. glad you enjoyed the hunt reports. as for equipment, last time i used real camera film, this time it will be digital. i will need warmer clothes this time, much later hunt. other than that, equipment will be identical to last time. why change what works?

Cold Zero,

Thanks for the info... Your time..
Because your going later and will need to change gear my i suggest that you use as your shell Cabela's Mt0500 suit uninsulated.. I found it to be outstanding in my 04 sheep hunt that got real nasty in the AKrange. Cut the wind and precip. with ease.. It also served me well in Scotland last year stag hunting.. Scotland is like AK wind, rain etc.. The nice thing about the suit is it keeps you dry.. When your stag hunting your on your belly all day like a snake..It's wet and the suit proved it will keep you dry.. It's a little heavy but it should be used as your main skin at your time frame.. If it was warmer i'd go with Frogg togs as my precip.shell
AK