I live in unit 20 D and they are fixing to have a cow hunt in this unit to take 860 cow moose and calves from this area.I think F&G have about flipped its wig.There are so many areas which have hardly any moose such as unit 13 and near Tok in unit 11.They should be transplanting moose instead of wiping them out.This is the first time ever I think a hunt should be stopped.They are planning on closing Fort Greely which is 500,000 acres to hunting so they want to remove most all of the moose.This is one of the best places to hunt moose by the way.It wont be after they have this hunt.They did this crap to the caribou in unit 13 once before and knocked them down to nothing.I was just wondering if any other Alaskans even cared about this.The city here just declair no hunting within city limits so that they wont be poping them in downtown Delta junction.This is going to ruin one of the best places to moose hunt in the state for a very long time.I dont see the moose recovering from this in the next 30 years or so.I wish this was one hunt that was stopped this year.I moved here to moose hunt not to look at a bunch of empty land that use to hold moose ,caribou and other game.

My good friend lives in Fairbanks was talking about it as well. Seems tranplanting them would be the best idea if $$$ were not a factor.

I'll be hunting near Delta this September, thankfully it will be before the cow hunt. I don't want to be anywhere near that fiasco when the gunfire erupts. There are a LOT of moose in that area and it's going to be a slaughter. I'm with you dgr416, this is one hunt where they gave out about 800 tags to many.

I have talked to no one around here who wants this hunt.This area has some of the highest moose populations in the state for sure.Two factors led to this the Fort Greely bombing range which is about 300,000 acres which no one can hunt and the Delta Management area which has only had 10 bulls taken each year.This hunt includes all the areas where there are alot of moose but not too many for the habitat.The plan here acording to the head biologist is to the remove the moose down to numbers that are below carring capicity.There will be twice as many moose die because the cows shot that do have calf will no longer be their for their calves.The fish and game wants less hunters in this area so that there are less 4 wheelers in this area.They want it permit hunting only.I wish there was some way to stop these hunts.If this hunts go through the moose will not recover for a long time if at all.

Thats a lame ass excuse to kill that many cows, all because of atv's?? Why don't they just make some kind of restriction on atv's instead of killing all those cows? Sounds like a line of BS to me.

I gave up figuring out fish and game.

Just like the cow hunt that doesnt make sense, also the griz baiting thing in 20E. I did it this spring. you can shoot an unlimited # of bears on upto 10 bait stations, but you cant shoot a mangy dog over the stations. You also cant shoot sows with cubs over bait. Now last I checked wolves and sows/cubs are also predators. I maybe wrong (I'm not college edumacated). WTF???? is a predator control permit, Its even called that.

I'm sure they could come up with the $$$ to transplant the cows.

agree with you guys....fish and game folks need to re-think some of their ideas - this hunt was not thought out for the long term.

KMule

The Biologist thinks so many hunters here with 4 wheelers are impacting the land too much.I guess the army wants no hunters on Fort Greely because security .They installed a fence around the main part of fort greely without any moose gates for the moose to get out of the fence.I hunted a missle base in montana and each silo only had a 2 acre fence around each silo and I hunted right up too them.This is the worse hunt ever for the moose here.There are too many places in Alaska without many moose to be doing this.Does anyone know how to go getting a hunt stopoped if at all possible.I have talked to a few large land holders here and they are not going to allow any cows to be killed on their land.This is one of the few saving graces.The bad part is the BLM and state and Army land will will be wide open to hunt.I have seen up to 125 moose in one day on the army base after this hunt it will be hard to find a moose.The 4 brow tine rule for moose here is also a joke.You will see plenty of three brow tinned moose but I have only seen one 4 brow tined moose alive and it was about 38".The bulls that are breeding are not the prime bulls.The fish and game here is not for hunters but for guides ,tour bus companies and themselves.Its time for us as hunters who want to see moose in Alaska for our kids to start paying attention to whats going on here.The native Americans lived here thousands of years with plenty of moose caribou and other game.

The only way to stop this fiasco is with a lot of money to hire an attorney and file suit. We live here (50 mile trip to Delta) but did not know of it happening until a week ago. As with most locals, we don't have the resources to fight this thing and Fish & Game could care less about what we think.

Like I said before, I am headed down there on the 8th of September to hunt moose. We have been hunting that same area since about '94 and have taken many bulls over 50"s and very few with 4 brow tines, I personally have taken only 1 with 4. I'll be on the lookout for grizzlies too. About the 4 wheeler thing, I do agree that something needs to be done, I don't know how many times I have sat and watched idiots ride their 4 wheelers right through prime moose habitat looking for a bull when 10 minutes before they rode through, there were moose standing within 20 feet of them. I wish there was something we could do but i feel that it is to late to stop it.

Fellas, Please!

We Alaskans should be well aware of the Board of Game process , the submission of proposals, and every citizens ability to assist Fish and Game policy and procedure. If enough folks thought the cow hunt was mis guided, the cow hunt could be stopped. I'd have to guess that a quick trip over to the Fish and Game website would yield contact info for the Fish and Game Commissioners.

Also as Alaskans, we all have seen first hand the horrific habitat damage done by over weight under worked "Sportsmen" and their ATV's. Seriously, try out the feet you were born with, they can work pretty well. The "outdoorsmen" that think the ATV is the only way to access hunting areas are most likely the same ones that wear 'Scentlock" hunting clothes,........while smoking cigarettes.

Further, our new and very intelligent governor just axed how much from the FY 07 budget? Who here seriously thinks the State of Alaska is up for spending literally thousands of dollars per hour in equipment and labor to transplant moose to areas that do not have "enough" moose due to what or how many different factors? If moose numbers are down in hypothetically Unit 17 due to poor habitat or over predation how would transplanting moose improve this situation? The bears and wolves just get fatter? The willow browse gets thinner?

There are too many areas already in Alaska with way below capicity or no moose.I bet there is a way moose could be transplanted.The fish and game only about playing on the computer any more.Hunters are becoming a bother to them.If you remove most of the moose you remove the hunters .Thats a wrong solution to the problem.If it was only 75 cows like last year it would not matter but 900 cows and calf moose from one area will totally removed the moose like the buffalo of days ago.I didnt see the buffalo come back too well and dont want the dipwads at fish and game play GOD.They think that they can manage the moose just like whitetails which theyt are totally different.I have yet to talk to one person here in Delta besides the idiot that wrote this up that wants these hunts.Once its done its too late.If you can stop it before it happens there are ahole lot of better answers.There should be moose gates on fort greely like every other army base.There has got to be a way to transplant to moose to areas which hardly have any moose as in unit 13,11 and by Tok.I have sure many hunters would be willing to help including myself and many I know.The fish and game has had too much control withourt listening to the people.I have been to f&G metting and they totally ignored hunters who have lived here 30 years or more.I dont want to be in a gameless area that use to hold alot of moose.

Who is going to pay for it, dgr? You? Who is going to pay for hiring the number of F&G employees required to pull that off and keep staff as required for everything else? What about the helicopter time? Where are you going to take these moose once you drug them? Not somewhere along the road system, so you need to fly them there. That is going to end up costing millions of dollars ADF&G doesn't have. I'm not sure the residents are willing to absorb those costs either.

It's a good idea, I'll give you that. Take moose where they are in high densities and put them where they are in low densities, if the land can support them. But how is that going to get paid for? Counting staffing, training, time, equipment, then aircraft rental/time and the other resources required, it's bound to run into a few million bucks...

You can dart moose just like anything else.Its been done before.I bet they can be loaded on horse trailers or big trailer and hauled to the areas only 100-150 miles away.If there are no moose in areas how will the ever come backwithout adding some.Lots of people would help without cost to f&g .To shoot all of these will be then end for sure here.Delta has the largest # of farms and good grazing in the state and thats why it has boosted this population.The bombing range has been a safe moose harbor for a long time.To wipe out this herd will not help anything.

We all know darn well that moose move quite a bit and that moose will move into good or new areas when the conditions allow it. If the habitat can't carry additional moose or has too many predators than no the moose won't move in.

Last spring There was a Huey helicopter working here in Dillingham and the pilot told me the chopper and staff worked for something crazy like $2500.00 per hour. (Don't quote me I'm not sure about that number,)A few years back the Fish and Game moved over 100 black and brown bears out of McGrath during calving season to aid calf survival, (it worked too.) just for kicks I was thinking DGR 416 should call the office over there and find out what that total bill was.
Before somebody says "see they moved the bears!" remember there's a big difference between moving 400 pound bears and a 1200 pound moose. I personally saw three I'm sure very pissed but immobilized bears wearing "depends" diapers in the back of a single 206 in McGrath.

Hey, I know the feeling, nobody wants less moose in their area, but transplanting them just won't work in my opinion.

I was talking about using trailers to move moose not helicopters .There are plenty of farmers here who would probally help for free or littleofnothing.The moose on the agricultural project would be easy to dart and load.I know of no orther way these larger mooseless areas will ever get any moose in them.Tok is only 100 miles from Delta and unit 13 is not that far either.I just dont want to see a moose herd as fine as Deltas disapear with the wind.Once its gone there is no trurning back the clock.They need to do away with the requirement of guided bear hunts and let nonresidents hunt grizzleys without a guide.They also need to let professional bear hunters with dogs hunt the grizzleys.The bears can be reduced alot cheaper helicopters and the moose can too.They were going to allow same day flying for grizzleys but did away with it.the fish and game caused the problem with the bears and wolves by protecting them too long.they waited in alot of areas till there were hardly any moose left till they even started doing anything.

Maybe the trailers would work, I just wouldn't have a clue.

I would only disagree (in the friendliest of ways,) with your assertion that the Fish and Game protect the predators. The Knowles Administration appointed Fish and Game commission members that were bunny huggers. I do not believe for a moment that the area biologists are or were interested in protecting predators at the expense of moose or caribou.

We should give credit where it is due and thank the voters of Alaska for not electing the Anchorage restarauntuer to a third term.

It's not areas along the road system that are are in the most dire need of boost in moose, is it? It's places off the road system. The only way to transport moose off the road system, without killing them from overstressing them, is by air.

I agree with Scott on this, especially about Knowles.

I know the Alaska Moose Federation has come up with some proposals to transplant moose around the state. But, what they have suggested so far, at least what I have seen, they have tried to do fairly independent of ADF&G, only asking for their blessing. I don't think that is way it is going to have to be done because of the way the game laws are written. The AMF needs to set up a MOU or MOA with ADF&G and go from there to figure out how make this succeed.

I'm sure your donations to AMF would be greatly appreciated.

Its suprising how few people where I live actually bear or wolf hunt.The one bear every four years didnt help either.Mostr people usually shoot one bear then thats it.The bears that feed on the moose calfs are going to be search for something else to eat when this hunt wipes out their easy food source that they had had.I bet there will be alotmore problem bears in town after this hunt.Its so funny that in the years long ago caribou ,moose,mountain goats,dall sheep and deer were transplanted without helicopters .I know it would not be easy but could be done.Its going to be a big waste of a herd that is one of the best in the state with this cow hunt.The blance of game was just fine for thousands of years till the fish and game started fooling with it.It willbeafter the factthat so many moose will be gone thatfish andgame will blame over harvest on the lack of moose afterwards.If it was a hunt with only 100 moose killed it would be fine but the 900 moose at one wack will be felt forever.

dgr, on the issue of resident predator hunting you and I are in total agreement. predator skins make very nice auto seat covers, floor mats, toilet seat covers, bath mats, sofa covers, area rugs, dog beds, and the list goes on.

I am sorry to say I am one of the guilty that have not taken a predator since 2000, but I can't seem to find one! This fall I'll be smearing myself in peanut butter and lying in wait.

Is baiting brown bears illegal if you are the bait?

Seriously, you are right, it is unfortunate that more residents don't actively participate in predator control.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Fellas, Please!

We Alaskans should be well aware of the Board of Game process , the submission of proposals, and every citizens ability to assist Fish and Game policy and procedure. If enough folks thought the cow hunt was mis guided, the cow hunt could be stopped. I'd have to guess that a quick trip over to the Fish and Game website would yield contact info for the Fish and Game Commissioners.

Also as Alaskans, we all have seen first hand the horrific habitat damage done by over weight under worked "Sportsmen" and their ATV's. Seriously, try out the feet you were born with, they can work pretty well. The "outdoorsmen" that think the ATV is the only way to access hunting areas are most likely the same ones that wear 'Scentlock" hunting clothes,........while smoking cigarettes.

Further, our new and very intelligent governor just axed how much from the FY 07 budget? Who here seriously thinks the State of Alaska is up for spending literally thousands of dollars per hour in equipment and labor to transplant moose to areas that do not have "enough" moose due to what or how many different factors? If moose numbers are down in hypothetically Unit 17 due to poor habitat or over predation how would transplanting moose improve this situation? The bears and wolves just get fatter? The willow browse gets thinner?

I like the way you lump all us atv userws together as overweight, Scentlock using, cigarette smoking sportsman. Your stupid assumptions show your intelligence.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott King:

....we all have seen first hand the horrific habitat damage done by over weight under worked "Sportsmen" and their ATV's..... The "outdoorsmen" that think the ATV is the only way to access hunting areas are most likely the same ones that wear 'Scentlock" hunting clothes,........while smoking cigarettes.

I believe I very carefully noted over weight underworked so called sportsmen, and went further to detail the ones that think the ATV is the only way to access hunting areas.

I believe I lumped nobody.

Reading comprehention may be a sign of intelligence.

Fact of the matter is your just like all the other bunny huggin, tree lovin greenies who only want things done their way. I did more long hauls and accessed more back country on foot than I could ever do on my atv, now that i'm a little older I like using my atv to get into my hunting spots and walk from there. If you don't like the way some people use their atv's then do something about, until then quit yer whinin.

Oh Jeez, I give, you can have it!

I figured I would get no help on here on how to get this hunt stopped.Its just ends up in an argument and guess what thats why hunting is declining hunters cant agree on anything hardly.I hardly ever see hunters and gun owners stick ytogether any more they just want their own interst and thats it.This hunt is designed to stop hunting in one of the best areas in Alaska.Without the moose Alaska is just a waste land.

I will visit the folks @ F&G and ask some questions, maybe they will explain further - This issue of "excessive" atv activity needs to be explored as well as the reasoning behind the numbers of cows to be removed in this area - Change can take place when the right approach is used.
Perhaps we can work together with the moose federation folks to make a difference.

I would guess that Ft.Greeley has some influence on this decision as well.
KMule

You say that the residents of Delta Junction are against this hunt, if thats true then why did most of them vote for it?

What vote?
Best Wishes

The local Delta Junction Fish and Game Advisory Committee composed of LOCAL DELTA JUNCTION RESIDENTS considered the data presented by the local biologist Dubois and approved all of the hunt details including number of permits. Apparently the number of moose in the area is the highest they have ever seen and they are concerned about the implications of an extended crash if they overbrowse the area.

Ah yes, Mr. Dubois, the Fish & Game bird biologist?

Is this the individual who published the infamous "letter" in the Anchorage newspaper that devastated the Moose hunting around the Gerstile (sp?) River area and North beyond ALCAN 1402MP; some six or seven years ago; and has not recovered to date (compared to years before)?
In all honesty, the results of the large influx of hunters into the area (because of the item published) is based merely on my observation of Moose NOT seen in the field, since then.
Being aware of Mr. Dubois' attitude/actions (published in the local paper) around this area, I am very skeptical.
Others may very well disagree.

It has since come to my attention that not everyone on said committee was in favor of this hunt and/or the numbers to be killed. I was not aware that that such a hunt was even being considered. Otherwise I would have been far more vocal in my disagreement. Delta Junction is a 50 mile trip from my home and I do not always know what the "inner circle" is planning.

Additionally, we heard a similar story from a F&G employee (Glennalen) regarding the possibility of a Caribou crash in Unit 13. As a result, one no longer observes the abundance that once held sway in that area; after the slaughter of the cows. People that had hunted the area for decades, no longer do so because the resident animals are no more.

I hope I am wrong in my speculation regarding the future health of our local Moose population, if this hunt goes forth.
Best Wishes

One Hundred years ago Teddy Roosevelt our forefather of Conservation save the land which we hunt and and the animals which we hunt.As hunters its our duty to preserve our sport of hunting for generations to come.The Native America has planty of moose,caribou ,sheep ,mountain goats ,muskox bison and many other animals on which they lived upon.Alaska is one of the few places in which hunting is still a way of life for many outside of the big cities.The moose of Alaska is one of our greatest natural resources which we must protect and use wisely.I have seen herds of calfless cows here cirle up to try to protect themselves from wolves.I have friends here who have hunted here 30 years and have never seen so many calfless moose cows.I have seen up to 18-20 cows at a time in a herd without a single calf.I know that by the time the hunt takes place the moose from the bombing range on fort greely will be on this side of the river.Its a shame to let a biologist who spends most of his on the computer instead of being out in the field.I have spewnt months watching the moose before during and after the moose season.I dont want one of Alaskas greatest game animals to be eliminated by one persons mistake.I agree may 100 cows a year to be shot ot transplanted but not a herd of 900 cows or calfs.I am a hunter through and through.I only eat wild meat itsd a way of life for me not just a weekend sport.

Here in the city of Delta Junction where I live as a result of this hudge cow hunt the city of Delta Junction today at 5 pm on Tuesday Aug 7 ,2007 the city is voting on the perminate ban of hunting big game within the city limits of Delta junction.They are also including banning shooting within the city of Delta junction.This hunt is hurting hunters and shooters and gun owners.The city shooting range will also be closed forever.I called about everyone I could to attend the metting which is an under the rug metting and hardly anyone is able to go due to work.I moved to this area because of the hunting and being able to shoot at the range now that will also begone along with our moose herd.

AK Fish & Game already told the "City of Delta" folks that the state regulates hunting and fishing, not the cities, hence them banning shooting in the city limits.
I wish I'd known about this meeting, I would have gone.

They about snuck this meeting under the rug.They have decided to adopt a no shooting unless in defence of life.They are still trying to ban big game hunting in the city of Delta.,Alasla is headed towards no hunting on the whole road system.They want every one to have to fly out to hunt and pay $10,000 to hunt moose.They didnt hardly listen to anyone who was against the ban on firearms and hunting.The biologist was very happy to see them want a ban on firearms inside of the city and wanting a ban on hunting.This hunt will eliminate the moose down to a nonhunting population so that fish and game wont have to bother with hunting.They always sneek every thing under the rug.If you just wait for the bourough they will ban shooting for the whole area just like others have in Alaska.I called ever hunter and gun owner I knew and couldnt get a single person to go to the meeting.Divided as hunters and shooters the antihunters and anti gun people will take away all of out gun and hunting rights.Its not right for fish and game to eliminate the entire moose herd either and playing God as they usually do.

Next week Oct 1 is the start of the cow/calf moose hunt that will ruin the finest moose herd in Alaska.Its a 6 week hunt that is going to effect the hunting for the next 30 years in this area.The fish and game wants to reduce the herd from 5.6 moose per square mile to 1.6 per square mile.They have basically ruined most all the other areas on the road system so they figured why not finish off the beat area.The area of 20 D is hunted by alot of people from Anchorage and Fairbanks because there are hardly any other areas with moose o n the road system any more.The fish and game is not going to quit till the moose that you can hunt without a guide are gone.They favor guides and tour bus companies.This hunt is directed in taking the most moose poossible to reduce the herd to a nonhunting population.As far as car accidents with moose go a reduced speed limit through the area 55 instead of 65 mph and clearin the road sides back 60 foot on each side instead of 10 foot on the sides helps.I have lived here 9 years and I guess I will move when the moose are gone.Its not worth staying when there is nothing to hunt.You can ride many roads hundreds of miles in Alaska with seeing a moose any more.Its a big waste land without the moose and caribou that once roamed Alaska.I though the idea was to reduce the bears and wolves to bring back the moose.I guess fish and game thinks moose will sprout like mushrooms or something.They have managed to ruin much of Alaska as far as the moose and caribo go.I watched the caribou disapear from unit 13 as a result of their reduction hunts.I guess Alaska is not the place I thought it would be nor the fish and game who is against the hunters and moose and caribou.

Do you think that Fish and Game would do this without thinking it through? I'm sure the bios in that area suggested this hunt for a reason. I hunt unit 20D and did this past season, saw tons and tons of moose but not 1 legal bull, but thats hunting. Fact of the matter is they do need to thin out that moose herd as they will eat themselves out of house and home. I say good luck to those that have tags.

They didnt think out this hunt.The area which includes the city of Delta Junction is mostly private and is full of house and not suitable for a rifle hunt.I hope no kids get shot waiting for the bus.They had 160 permits for that area.It should have been an archery or muzzleloader hunt.The bombing range on fort greely holds tons of legal bulls that only come out after moose season.I think that if they want a 4 brow tined season they need to lenghten the season or change it.Its been almost too hot to clean a moose the last two years.A 3 brow tined 50" bull season with no spikes or forks taken would be alot better.The very few 4 brow tined moose i have seen have all been under 50 inches.The fish and game i Alaska plays too much on their computers and does not spend enough time in the feild or ask hunters in the field any of their opionins.They cater to tour bus companies and guides and could care less about hunters in general.The same goes for fishing in Alaska .

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
They didnt think out this hunt.The area which includes the city of Delta Junction is mostly private and is full of house and not suitable for a rifle hunt.I hope no kids get shot waiting for the bus.They had 160 permits for that area.It should have been an archery or muzzleloader hunt.The bombing range on fort greely holds tons of legal bulls that only come out after moose season.I think that if they want a 4 brow tined season they need to lenghten the season or change it.Its been almost too hot to clean a moose the last two years.A 3 brow tined 50" bull season with no spikes or forks taken would be alot better.The very few 4 brow tined moose i have seen have all been under 50 inches.The fish and game i Alaska plays too much on their computers and does not spend enough time in the feild or ask hunters in the field any of their opionins.They cater to tour bus companies and guides and could care less about hunters in general.The same goes for fishing in Alaska .

What the hell have you been smoking???

My 2 daughters, ages 11 and 12 drew cow tags along with myself. I have heard that many people in Delta do not agree with the hunt, but then listen to the biologists that agree that these moose will eat themselves out of house and home like M70 said. I have always questioned shooting of cow moose, but seeing what is happening in Fairbanks, maybe there is a good biological reason to have this hunt?????

I am hoping that my 2 daughters, who are incredibly excited to shoot their first moose, will enjoy this hunt and be able to share their meat with their family and elders of the community.

Our area Bio came to my classroom and explained this to the kids. If the density of moose per square mile gets above a certain ratio, they open up the season for calves. If it continues to get out of hand (population), then they open it up to cows and calves.

This happened on the lower Yukon where at one point, they could not find a moose living in a 2000 square mile area. They imposed a moratorium and in 5 years, they had 200 moose there. Now, 5 years later, there is an estimated 1700 moose living there and they have opened it up to antlered bulls and calves.