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I remember hearing talk about bear bucket snaring & aerial control for blk & grizz last year. I figured, ya right, never happen once all the greenies go nuts. I guess they are considering it with depressed moose numbers in many areas; Indians even want it to happen. I had between 20-25 different bear coming into my stand last Spring, we do got all kinds of bear in ALaska. What have you all heard about this proposal? Might it happen? Might be a good move to help the moose out. | ||
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Trapping bears works better then hunting them. One could set out dozens of bear snares. Run a line shoot the bears ect. One has to be willing to shoot them an leave them rot. If reducing bears number is just the goal. But there are other ways also. I think they should lower the lic costs for non residents or have no lic. Or just charge 50 dollars per bear taken no limit. Advertise for hunters Allow hunter to shoot and leave them lay. Reduce the regulations make it easy as possible for hunters to come in Or have no regulations when it comes to taking bears in certain areas. Place a bounty on them. Have the non resident pay the money per bear to a resident so they would invite people to come up and shoot them. Have a no guide lic requirement for a resident to get payed to allow some one to hunt with him for bear Zhurh have you invited any body up to shoot bears. You had 20 some bears coming in how many were you allowed to shoot. How many did you shoot. Just A few Ideas on getting more bears killed Remember we are not talking sport hunting here we are talking about reducing the number of bears in a area. If they are varmints they should be treated like varmints. | |||
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Ouch, I would have to say that the anti's would love to photograph this. Remember the caribou that were slayed I believe up by Point Hope - the footage was not good for the hunting community... I agree on wolf, bear and predator control but it has to be done wisely and ethically without bringing a ton of attention to it... My two cents. | |||
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F&G was claiming the most successful way to lower bear numbers is through aerial control. We are so over populated with bear, it's unreal and really hard on the moose calves as the bear take 85% of calf production every spring. Anytime F&G gets a good idea, the outside greenies go ballistic and stop it. Our own AK office holders want that green you know. I really believe the reason why bear limits for non residents haven't been opened up is due to the guide industry and they got to eat too; so I'm not saying they should have to suffer. We live rural, any bear around house is shot on site, keeps them away actually. Last May, had 2 different bear in burn barrel & back yard before light. So I set up my stand mile behind house and had 20-25 different bear, 150-200 picts a day, all day and all night long coming in; actually waiting in line. Residents are allowed 3 blk & 2 grizz but can't bait grizz. My kids, relatives, neighbors all got their two and I tagged a grizz in another place. We want to get the bear numbers down as the moose are going extinct and everybody needs a moose for winter. White People around here eat blk bear and like it. Even after 8 were shot, still were bear coming in. I don't invite people as soon as if I did, one of the guides on here would be turning me in to F&G quick. I've even had friends from outside that sat in my stand taking picts, tell me they have lots of friends who would gladly give me 500 for a bear I just don't get involved with that and don't want anything to do with it. Really wish the state would open up bear hunting for non residents so they would come up, set up stand and kill a few themselves to get population down. If a person did fly to AK, rented a car and put out some bait in early June, where they have seen bear cross before dark, they'd get a bear quick too; not all that hard. I'm not sure on the regulations for non residents though. As easy as it is to get blk bear, you'd think guides would have very low rates (maybe they do) just to entice people to fly up. Sorry to go on, I was just wondering if anybody has heard anything more about the blk bear bucket snaring proposal that is making the news up here, upsetting the greenies, ha ha. Here are a few picts from last year. My daughter got one, only 300 lber, some game cams, and a local grizz. Hope you all enjoy the picts right about now that it's minus 40 below.      [IMG]http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/Eska_ 2006/PICT0144.jpg[/IMG] | |||
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I'm sure the BOG got a earfull last night in ANC from the greenies, especially with Knowles leading it. I'm all for it. I've been hunting bears off the taylor for quite a few years and I cant believe the number of bears. we are doing our best knocking the #'s down a couple at a time  they also need to knock the dog numbers down. those things are spreading like wildfire. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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I saw more bear & wolves along the Taylor last year than any other year so far. Probably cause I spent more time hunting, ha ha. WE saw a bunch of grizz in the same places late evenings. Had wolves strollin down middle of the road around 8 pm everynight; trying to catch small groups of caribou that kept making big circles over the road. Blk bear up and down entire length of the road. Don't mean to sound as if I'm complaining, but I know for sure eventually it will affect our moose numbers which seem to been coming up a little after the burns of years back. Have ya been after any caribou that are supposeably still hanging out on the summits? I haven't seen many wolf tracks on my trails this winter that go in from house to mountains; figure the bou are keeping them busy. | |||
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Unfortunately I live in Wasilla so I cant get up there as much as I would like. If it was up to me I would have moved up there along time ago but the wife doesnt like the winters, so I just do a couple pilgrimages up there a year to see friends and knock some bears over. that whole compromise thing. Last time we hunted bou up there was after the boundary fires. after the forestry dept opened up the whole area, then it got real stupid with hunters. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Heres another Idea for getting rid of bears allow the sale of the paws and gaul bladder. Makes shooting the bears worth a lot. Does Fish and Game really want the numbers taken down. Or do they want to spend lots of money on programs that increase their power ect. I dought they will let the avg Joe shoot them from the air. Open season get rid of regulations on hunters and how they take them. No bag limits, no lic, no guides ect. I really dought that the state wants to give up that kind of power. | |||
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P dog, its one of those double edge swords IMO. Its always about money and politics. I agree on relaxing the licensing costs and guide rules but your dipping into the state coffers and guide pockets. Never happen. The you got the greenies who will try and stop everything they can, unfortunately they are a voting block (even though most are from out of state, I say screw em but......). as for aerial, its to expensive for teh average joe. with gas anywhere from $4-$8+/gal. its pricy. with some of the ideas you mentioned it would work but it will never happen. With some of the knuckle head residents we have running around this state unguided, I'm sure alot of non-res can handle it but that would be taking money out of some folks pockets and besides, thats the reasonable way of doing things. we are talking govt here. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Another question to throw out is - what about the folk like myself and my wife who prefer hunting and eating black bear to moose? I know we are not the only ones. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I too like a good bear roast. Its better then beef IMHO. Game laws were put, are in place to protect a limited resource. When that limited Resource is no longer in need of that protection those protections should be reduced or done away with. But we have developed is game departments who jobs, power ect come from regulations and they will fight hard to keep them. | |||
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Where have you guys been hiding? I'm a certified brown bear snarers in the state. You can find all the info on snaring in the trapping regs. As of now brown bear snaring is allowed in unit 16B from the north bank of the Mcarthur river to the south bank of the Beluga river. Snaring of brown bears or black bears with cubs less than year old you have to contact the bios immediatley so they can fly out to dart the bear and release it from the snare. If you are snaring in a black bear only area and snare a brown bear you have to contact the bio so they can fly out and dart the bear and release it. It is a very well ran program and the state DOES not advertise it and prfers to keep it on the downlow. Also do not get caught posting pictures of a snared bear on the internet the bios will be contacting you and pulling your snaring perm. With Cory Rossi demise who knows how long the predator control in unit 16B will last. Handmade paracord rifle slings: paracordcraftsbypatricia@gmail.com | |||
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They had grizz baiting a couple years back on road about 90 miles south of me, but too far to bother with. We always see half dozen grizz or so every Sept, I never even bothered with them as I was always thinking moose. Few years back our lady gov got some bucks for heli wolf control. Emergency hunt, they got 88 in first 3 days, needed new snow, and greenies found out and had injunction; but they had got 88 at least and their success rate then had dropped anyway. People out here realize that predator control is critical if our area is to support the hundreds of outta town hunters that come in every fall. If bear & wolves continue take 80% of resource, won't be long until they close the season. The locals ain't going to starve, they'll hunt like the Indians 24/7 and moose will never rebound. Proper game management (predator control) is the only sensible answer and everybody that lives out here knows it. One guy from TOK got 40 some wolves last winter, pretty much all he done all winter, but that's quite a few just the same. How is old man Green doing and his trapping store between Palmer & Wasilla? The greenie money from lower 48 drives it all I believe. Only two of us had bear stands in my community, but we've got a few others talking about it. A bunch of locals want to use my stand, but I keep it to neighbors or I'd have half the town walking around in my huntin valley, if ya know what I mean. I just want to get the bear cleaned out and start seeing moose again. We're planning on doing our part to work on the bear problem nx Spring; believe it or not I don't eat bear but have all kinds of people begging me for one for their freezer. People here even eat grizz. 323, If you see this, send me a PM with your phone number. I'd like to ask some questions about getting started with buckets. Have you ever had a blk bear sneak in on ya with front quarters down & butt up high in the air, ears goin crazy;;; like cat on a rabbit; I have, ha ha. | |||
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Z, we did that baiting for griz down near logging cabin creek at my buddies moose camp (about 12 miles off the road). Seen bears but none messed with the bait. We went in to late I believe so we were competing with calving season. Hard to compete with fresh meat. We had a .50BMG in camp so we could reach out and touch them. seen a nice blond come across the east fork, but just didnt show himeself enough for a good shot. at 600yrds, we didnt want to just start cranking rds down range. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Joel, Have seen bear entire length of Taylor but especially on Fairplay, through Jack Wade, also that trail at the Y that goes back in, at lodge on otherside of 40 mile, and in blueberries everywhere up high. Popcorn works, rotten meat, mir whip with 1/2 inch in bottom of jug, fish eggs | |||
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Rotton meat never really worked for us. We usually just use dog food covered in hershey syrup shoved up under a dead fall. Furthest north I have been on the taylor is at teh DOT shop at south fork. Hiked in there for bou and woke up the next morning and the smoke was so thick we left. It was the 2nd year when boundary flared back up. The smoke didnt bother me, but teh heat had me thinking of getting out of there. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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yeah, there are alot of bears up there. best one I took was a blackie where it was a cross from a blue and black color phase. only the tips were black. weird bear for that area. we did take a cinnamon about 10 years ago. The one I like the most was my dads first bear (he's from MI) considering I grew up in a basically non-hunting/anti-gun family, I was really shocked when he said he wanted to go to camp let alone when he actually shot one. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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I'll try the hersheys, you try the pop corn. Old guy here in community told me to use pop corn years ago. This old guy tells so many stories, I never payed him much mind. Then one year he asked me how many bear had I got with pop corn? So I tried it and it's works better for me than anything. So good, I go through a couple 25 lb bags or popcorn available at Sams every season, seems like I spend a couple hours popping it everyday to keep the bear fat & happy. I hang it in red onion bags just outta their reach, drives them nuts. They'll fight over popcorn with each other, they fresh smell really travels too. I've watched bear after bear go for popcorn, mir whip jugs, salad dressing, gravy (heck I even luv the gravy) and not even touch the dogfood; my bear must have special tastes; ha ha. Rotten meat always tends to bring the grizz in, but we ain't baiting for them. We actually see enough grizz just out and about, no need to bait. There's a guy from Anch, that use to kill one when he'd come up in the summers. He was a good guy, had all kinds of old English guns and he'd bring a bear down town to tag. A group from Wasila come up and camp for about a month during hunting season, been at it for 20 years and they always get a couple bear, a moose or two and all get their caribou. Another group with horses from Wasilla go back in and get sheep & moose. Last year, I talked to another older guy from Wasilla, who just came up for a grizz, spent a few days here; drives a white flatbed. He saw bear but didn't take any. One night, I was coming back from Tok with one of the local Indians and that guy with white trk was watching a grizz (was up the road maybe 300 yards parked) and we come driving by and saw bear, didn't see him. Indian shot at grizz running for cover; oh well things like that happen I guess. It's probably just as good down at lower end of highway, but we get people from MatSu up here too. Biggest grizz I have seen in MatSu were out chickaloon, out that road to Bonnie Lake. Ravine Lake I think they were called. Use to be quite a few grizz out there and close for you. Anybody heard any more info on the bear bucket deal going on with F&G? I looked on website, didn't see anything new. | |||
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Thanks for the advice. As for the pred control, I think they have a couple more days of public input. Honestly, I can't see anything good coming out of it with this whole Rossi deal. Politics and all. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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I have found that, as an attractant bears like imitation vanilla and anise. Mix these together and soak a piece of beef suet with this mixture. Bears will come. | |||
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Shocker, the snaring is on a back burner and from what I read normal folks cant register multiple bait stations in there name. Oh guides can still do up to 10 stations, I'm sure there is no preferance given to the guiding industry (again). No big deal doing the baiting classes, that doesnt bother me, but we usually set up multiple stations in my buddies name cuz he lives in the area and it makes logistics easier. It just pisses me off cuz "they" say it would make hunters look bad by having multiple stations, but guides walk on water. Sorry rant off. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Joel, Couldn't imagine wanting more than one bait station; hard enough for me to keep the bear fed & happy at one barrel, no joke. I'm not kidding, I had bear coming in all day & night long; had it tough finding the right time to fill barrel as bear were always there. Ya know, those guides have it tough just the same. Hunting becomes work and I bet they get to hatin it. So many of them have got out of it out our way, it can't be all easy livin. I don't envy them. | |||
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I agree that guides dont have an easy millionaire life. I also dont see guides making anymore money off the fact that they can have 10 stations and the peons only one. its the fact that the BOG made a "classification" if you will. Its OK for them, but not for me. We set up multiple stations cuz we have our hotspot (on the mtn), well, guys like me, its a nonissue (late 30's early 40's). We have guys who go to camp that are in there 70"s and uphill is hard on them, so we have another site. we also have folks that have a disability so we have another site. It is a PIA but everybody is happy and atleast 1 always get a bear. A lesson in irony The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us... "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves." Thus ends today's lesson in irony. | |||
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Fish and Game does tend to suck up to the Guiding industry a lot more than I have seen in other states. I'd like to see much more limited sheep and mountain goat quotas for non residents. Not sure it will happen though. 10% would be good in the trophy areas, and 30% in the rest of Alaska. I think something will change on the sheep and goat issue though. Just not enough adult male sheep and goats to support both local and guided hunters. Too bad the Feds screwed us on the wood bison deal, has anyone heard any more news about that? | |||
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Where did you get that information ? Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Ya know, I seem to remember the Indians not wanting the bison released due to the fact that after they were released, the greenies could use the bison existence to prevent any resource (oil & gas) exploration & development on Native Lands the bison would be on. I might be way off the mark, but that seems to come outta the fog with me. Indians (well the ones connected & in the loop) see their future resource development of the lands they own. The ones still living in the village, they just want to live like they always have and be left alone. Remember way back when people wanted to release elk in the matsu and other areas. The greenies went crazy, something else for the hunters to kill, OH NO. Within another generation, we will have deer & elk moving in from Canada. People see deer & mnt lions from time to time where I call home. Friends upriver in Dawson have deer in their yards. Maybe my grandkids will shoot deer & elk & bison | |||
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AWESOME PHOTOS! KEEP THEM COMING! You live in bearadise that's for sure.
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It was in Alaska magazine about 3 or 4 years ago. I don't get the papers as I am usually deployed to the warzone, but the magazine made a pretty good trek to get to me in Afghan. USFWS said no to Woods Bison. Love the 30-06 by the way! 
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@ Zhurh Mule deer in Dawson? Didn't know that, that's pretty cool. Are the same tribes that own the mining companies the ones bitching about non-native owned mines? | |||
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It's going to be a hard sell to get broad public support for bear snaring. I'm not necesarily against it, but I think many groups are thinking they'd rather not expend financial and political capital on fighting this one if it turns into a areal wolf type battle. Just saying. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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the afgd makes me sick sucking up to the guiding industry. i'm a non - resident who would love to hunt brown/grizz on my own. i'm so tired of hearing natives and whites for that matter shooting browns/blacks and letting them lie. 2 bear limits tells me theres plenty to let a non res hunt 1. several times when speaking with locals in small towns, thers always somebody shooting bears by the dozens at the dump or in their backyards. i've killed lots of black bear and call in brown/grizz for fun and photos. don't need a guide. the state of ak ( and canada for that matter ) lose tons of tourist money from me due to guide requirements. even on unguided trips i've spent 5-8 grand hunting deer/blacks and fishing. hunting blacks once i stopped in at a local afgd. they wanted me to shoot 5 bears. i asked for 4 reduced costs or free tags and they went silent. but had actually begged me to limit out ! living on the border of canada, i'd hunt there every year if not for the money grubbing. had lunch with a fellow in prince george ( fishing trip ) that told me he had shot 22 bears in his fields so far that summer. he would let my whole family take a bear for free and camp on his place. had to turn him down as a guide is required. what a waste of resource and lost tourism dollars. it's difficult to not become an anti-hunter or just plain an enemy of the fish and game when there is absolutely no reason why a guy can't hunt because he doesn't want to or can't spend 10's of thousands on a guide for services he don't want or need. money,money,money. when the king owns the game and only princes can hunt. hunting will come to an end. pigs proverb. If u want missing trophies,stolen trophies,crap mounts or replacement minature trophies .....use KARL HUMAN TAXIDERMY in east london, south africa. | |||
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I don't remember if it was last summer or the one before we had an interesting "reason for a guide," incident. A couple of fellows from down south were camped out west of here and lit off their emergency locator. The Coast Guard scrambled out of Kodiak, over flew in the c-130 and relayed to location to our local game warden. He arrived in short order to find that the emergency was the lack of darkness. They couldn't sleep. They lit off the emergency locator, called for a Coast Guard rescue because the sun wouldn't go away and they couldn't sleep. Seriously. The game warden of course left them right where he found them and mentioned that he'd send their air taxi for them first thing in the morning. Certainly some tourists that visit here are competent outdoorsmen but some don't seem to be so. I've hunted in different places a couple of times and have been glad to rely on guides experience and professionalism to make some decisions for me. Alaska is different, very different. | |||
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You have all these entities in Alaska that want to keep their freedom, way of life, like it always has been. They don't want to become the lower 48, right or wrong. The INdians hunt 24/7, and there's nothing the govt can do or will do to stop them; remember when the feds said the Indians had to quit the spring duck hunting? ha ha That didn't go nowheres. The Indians just ain't willing to give in on some things and they ignore the laws, and I'm not saying they shouldn't. People out in many rural areas don't want to see no roads bringing in more outside hunters; taking what they depend on. People in rural areas don't want people from anch & fairbanks out their way. On and ON and ON. One thing for sure, most Alaskans don't want any non ALaskans (who all have the plague you know) taking the game they want to get. It's the same out west in lower 48 and back east hunters. The guides don't think anybody should be allowed to shoot anything before they get paid their 10K. F&G is in the middle of it all and trying to keep the peace and not have all the moose & caribou go extinct over too many wolves & bear. People from outside can bait and shoot blk bear but can often do that at home too. Most outsiders I see, drive up with van & atvs then sleep on cots in van. get a moose, caribou, wolf , and bear which most are happy with. They stay 2-3-4 weeks if they can. The locals bitch & complain as usual but tags get filled. I don't see anything changing soon. | |||
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It's not just outside "greenies" who oppose the extreme bear methods and means regulations the board approved in recent years. There are a lot of Alaskans, hunters and non-hunters alike, who object. To see same-day hunting prohibitions abolished, shooting of cubs and/or sows with cubs approved, selling of bear parts, mid-summer baiting, snaring and helicopter transport of hunters legalized really offends a lot of hunters. Saying it's not hunting, it's predator control, is bogus. It is hunting and it reflects poorly on hunters. Get real guys--this is bad business. | |||
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Anybody who has spent anytime in the woods in Alaska, realizes we have an over abundance of wolves & bear. We have drainages they have got ever last moose; where there use to be plenty of moose. So what's the answer to lowering bear & wolf numbers so that moose and caribou can grow back up to the numbers they once were. I sure don't think hunting pressure has changed all that much. Personally, I don't care how they do it, just do it before the moose & caribou are gone and then the bear & wolves starve themselves out. | |||
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I've been in Alaska for 37 years and have heard this same story every year--no moose where there used to be a lot and a wolf or bear behind every bush. At McGrath in 2000 the locals told that story. The ADF&G moose estimate based on a poor census effort was 850 moose. The subsistence harvest needed was 100-150 moose. About 3000-3500 moose were needed to sustain that harvest. It was labeled a crisis. The Game Board approved a wolf control plan but in the fall of 2001 ADF&G finally conducted a valid census that indicated 3600 moose--four times the earlier estimate. Crisis? What crisis? There were enough moose present to support the harvest of local residents all along. True, the moose population had declined from that of the 1970s but there were still enough to satisfy local demand. But, as one ADF&G biologist told me, the locals want to "road hunt" the rivers in their boats and that requires a high moose population. From 1994 to 2002 there were no predator control programs, and before that no large scale programs from 1983 to 1994, only a few small-scale ones. Yet the state-wide moose harvest was 6000-8000 annually--very close to that of 2002-2010. There is no evidence that predators are over-running the country and eliminating moose from large areas. If they were, moose in Denali National Park would have been gone decades ago. Last fall I saw 12 60 inch+ bulls in one small drainage there--right in the middle of the territory of one of the largest wolf packs in the park with lots of bears around too. We need facts, not fairy tales, about predators. | |||
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Originally posted by vicvanb quote]We need facts, not fairy tales, about predators[/quote] vicvanv Sir I appriciate your knowledge and research on the Denali moose populations and I also respect your background ( biology degree from the university of New York). Your previous post would suggest that preditor populations have no detrimental effect on moose populations. I must disagree with that. My own example of the situation is in the Lake Iliamna area. I have hunted there and guided this area since 1976. I know many of the locals who during the years of same day wolf hunting harvested dozens of wolves from unit 9 and 17. This area did'nt have state sanctioned preditor control but the numbers were still kept in check untill 1994. The moose numbers started going down slowly at first but by 2002 I quit moose hunting. I'm sure it can be argued that any number of factors could cause this but it sure seems quite funny that the moose populations started dropping in the mid 90's. Also from flying the the area in my cub I not only noticed a lack of bull moose but I would see no moose at all. This did'nt come from over hunting by humans. Alaska is a large state and we need to be careful makeing general statements about a population of prey animals and pontifacating it as an example of the health of other populations in other parts of the state. A good analogy would be the the wolves of northern Minnesota ( I know you have profeessional experience with them) There have been healthy populations of both wolves and deer for many years. It would'nt surprise me if the biologist with U.S.F&W service looked at that example while makeing their decition to reinterduce wolves to Yellowstone. This is an example of another area and another population of prey animals but if you want to know how that one worked out just ask the people who previously watched the migration of elk through Gardner MT and see what they think about it. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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You raised some good points but I did not suggest that predators have no impact on prey numbers. In Denali I saw with my own eyes the impact of 20 years of heavy bear predation on young moose calves (research showed that bears killed 53% of calves, wolves killed 6%). The moose population declined greatly as a result of bear predation, BUT moose did not disappear. They are still moderately abundant. Mostly I'm reacting to claims that wolves wipe out moose. At McGrath in 2000 a local pilot was quoted several times saying it was like "flying over a vast graveyard." Not quite true with 3600 moose in Unit 19D East at that time. Again--if wolves and bears wipe out moose, why are there still moose at Denali? I totally agree that we cannot generalize about predator-prey interactions in different areas. BUT that is exactly what the Game Board did (still does) in approving predator control programs without adequate field data. They just did it again by approving the Kenai Peninsula aerial shooting program. The Peterson wolf study done there is 30+ years out of date. So is the Schwartz bear predation study. I tell my medical doctor--please don't treat me based on 30 year-old research! The Board members would likely tell their doctors the same but can't seem to equate that to wildlife management. As for Yellowstone, I was on a couple of panels in the early 1990s that were evaluating the potential of a wolf re-introduction. Everyone agreed that wolves would likely reduce the overpopulated northern elk herd. And they did--but this is a good thing. Decades of high elk populations nearly destroyed the habitat--aspen was scarce and willows were gone. No beavers or white-tails. Now, the plants are recovering and animals are returning. We should all be happy | |||
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All I know is F&G in my GMU realize there's too many wolves & bear like most the locals excluding a few that blame outside hunters for everything. I don't buy into the outsider thing as almost all the guides that had businesses here have closed up shop. I had between 20-25 different bear coming into my stand last June, all day & night; 150-250 game cam picts each day. I'd never believed it myself but saw with my own eyes. When the bears are taking 85% of moose calf production, something has to be done, or hunting will be curtailed. They won't stop the locals but they will stop everybody from outside, I don't want to see that either. I just stopped believing that balance of nature, all the animals in abundance long time back; not what I see. I see boom and bust cycles. When the bear & wolves clean an area out, then they start eating each other until they go extinct or move on. I just don't like seeing the land only support maybe 10% of what it is able to produce when everything stagnates without proper game management. People out here depend on moose for winter meat or have to fly meat in at ridiculous air rates. Whatever it takes, I'll go along to increase our moose numbers. The sensible side of me tells me the wolves kill all the moose in winter and bear get most the calves in May & june. From what I see around where we call home. | |||
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