** THE CHARGE CONSIDERATION **

Limiting yourself to one weapon , IMHO , is not a good approach . --- There must be ways to pre-ship via UPS , -- or otherwise arrange with Air-Freight , etc. -- a way of getting two rifles up there with you . --- One for open country , -- ( W/ flat shooting cartridge like the .300 Mag . family .) -- and one short barreled brush cartridge that is also good for Bear and wounded-game applications .

Sounds like this is a big hunt for you planning years ahead . If with Guides , etc. , these things can cost thousands of dollars , and entail massive advanced planning .

Any trip of that magnitude , -- justifies the cost of taking a second rifle , just on the merits of having your well-fitting stocks , and rifles that you have practiced with a lot , with you , in case of mechanical failure / damage of one rifle , or scope . --- Many experienced Hunters going to Africa , -- routinely take two identical rifles , -- according to this thinking .

But , back to your question , --- I would first decide if most of your hunt is going to be , open country , or Bush .

In Open-Country , -- I further agree that the .338 family would be the best choice . ( I have a good friend that hunts Antelope in Montana with a very accurate .338 Win. -- using light-for-caliber bullets ) . --- They can reach out . -- And with very heavy , well-constructed bullets , they also have stopping-power .

If around the Coast or in alder Country , I'd use a .416 Mag. , with heavy-for-caliber carry rounds .

My Son works for F&G in AK. -- and hears lots of accounts .

Most peopole do not consider stopping a charge , when choosing a cartridge / rifle . --- And to be fair , -- State statistics show very small probabilities of facing a Bruin Attack . --- But , of course , attacks are on the rise ; and if you are going to hunt Bear , -- you have to add the probabilities of a wounded Animal ruining your day .

If I was flat forced to take only one gun with me ; -- guess it would be one of the .375 family . -- As with the .338 , with light bullets and a good rangefinder , plus a range-determining ( scope ) recticle , -- make long shots very possible .

And one good thing about shooting big heavy bullets at great range , -- is that crosswinds don't move those heavy babies much .

----------------- MMCOUGAR .

As the guy on the receiving end of all the equipment brought up by hunters - and the guy responsible for transporting it and sorting it all out in the field - I will say that bringing two rifles with you on any Alaskan hunt that I have ever been involved with - from sheep to bears - is a mistake, Especially if you need to be transported in a Supercub. Large rifle cases will not even fit in a cub.
Bring one rifle that you shoot well, from the 30-06 on up, loaded with good stout bullets, and you will be well armed for anything in Alaska.

Phil,

Excellent point. Even as a resident dealing with a second gun is PITA. My phylosophy for traveling, whether hunting or not, is to carry a minimal quantity of quality gear. Extra crap simply tires you out in travel, and you're wasting time keeping track or it and sorting through it, instead of enjoying your trip.

*** --- Yep , good point , --- I didn't think about space in a crowded cockpit .

Wouldn't want to fly back to Anchorage just to get the back-up .

-- But that sure makes a case for the most indestructable rig you can afford to buy . AND , a scope you can get off of there in the field , -- to use the iron sights !

-------------- MMCOUGAR .

if a second gun were brought along, it would be back at the tent or cabin where you are staying and not out in the field where you would be unlikely to use it anyway. this is not africa, where the gun bearer is standing behind you like a golf caddy, with guns.

i took a second rifle on my b.b. hunt, it never left the case.

I took a ss M70 338 Win mag that I had a gunsmith mig weld the bolt handle on for dependability, I added a Williams extractor.. took about 50 rounds along on our Dall/grizz hunt, and used three rounds. (Not to worry about wasted ammo, our Elk Season starts tommorrow.)..I used Nosler 210 Partitions at 2900 fps.. shooting consistantly under an inch at 100yds.. It fit in it's soft case behind me in the Super Cub.. (The moose hunters that came in after us, had their rifles bungied to the wing struts.. I taped their muzzles for 'em in case of rain).. a second rifle would have stayed in the Outfitter's truck.. Les

quote:

Originally posted by Les Staley:
I took a ss M70 338 Win mag that I had a gunsmith mig weld the bolt handle on for dependability, I added a Williams extractor.. took about 50 rounds along on our Dall/grizz hunt, and used three rounds. (Not to worry about wasted ammo, our Elk Season starts tommorrow.)..I used Nosler 210 Partitions at 2900 fps.. shooting consistantly under an inch at 100yds.. It fit in it's soft case behind me in the Super Cub.. (The moose hunters that came in after us, had their rifles bungied to the wing struts.. I taped their muzzles for 'em in case of rain).. a second rifle would have stayed in the Outfitter's truck.. Les

Not a bad idea to take extra ammo. I usually take around 15 extra rounds, just in case I bump the scope and have to check it out there. My .338 has a muzzle brake, so I buy a bag on mini-balloons, and place one over the muzzle.

Spare rifles, like so much other gear, may seem like a great idea when planning a trip but are rarely needed. I've been packing a rifle in Alaska virtually everyday throughout spring, summer and fall, for almost thirty years and have yet found a case where I needed a second one.

My .375 H&H is a stainless M-70 cut to 20" it wears a Mc Millian stock, is fluted and topped with a 1.75X6 Leupold VX III.

It weighs about 8LBS with the scope.

It shoots 270gr Barnes TSX @ about 2700 FPS and is way more accurate than I am. This thing is scary bench rewst accurate.

Makes a pretty fair Alaska rig. Even if it works good in Africa and everywhere else too.

And by the way muzzle breaks are for tourists. Don't put one on your .375 there is no need.

.338-06
.338 WM
35 Whelan
9.3x62
.375H&H

They will all do the job.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
As the guy on the receiving end of all the equipment brought up by hunters - and the guy responsible for transporting it and sorting it all out in the field - I will say that bringing two rifles with you on any Alaskan hunt that I have ever been involved with - from sheep to bears - is a mistake, Especially if you need to be transported in a Supercub. Large rifle cases will not even fit in a cub.
Bring one rifle that you shoot well, from the 30-06 on up, loaded with good stout bullets, and you will be well armed for anything in Alaska.

Well, let me chime in here with an "Amen". I've recently got back from my first (hopefully not last) Alaskan hunt (hunt report in the works), and I can attest that extra stuff gets left behind somewhere . First, on the commercial flight to Alaska you'll be limited to 2 checked bags of 50 lbs. each without being charged over-limit fees . Then you've got bring stuff home with you, horns, hides, meat, trinkets for the family, etc (at a meeting after the hunt I a won a Barney's Bomshelter 8'x8' tent and HAD to bring that home - $20 of rafle tickets + $50 extra baggage fee = pretty sweet deal on a nice tent).

On a float plane based hunt the weight limit will probably 125 lbs. per person, on a Supercub the weight limit will probably be 50 lbs. plus 20 lbs food that will have to be gone by the time you fly back out.

Before you leave you should pack everything just like you were going to step onto the plane into the bush and weigh it. Then compare it to the limit given to you by your outfitter. I swore my stuff had been multiplying when I started paring down . My outfitter had a 20 ft container box for people to leave extra stuff in while they were out. That should say something.

I use 338 Win with 225 TSX bullets.....for 90% of all my Alaska hunting here......the other 10% is 30-06 and 22LR.

I wouldn't bring 2 rifles to hunt Alaska, you'll be using a guide for brown bear and goats so if something should happen to your gun you could always use his. I also recommend the 375 H&H using 300 gr Nosler Partitions, it might be a little big for caribou but will handle moose and big brownies quite well. With that being said and when it all comes down to it, shot placement is the key to taking any big game animal, of course, you already knew that!!

NO Alaskan guide WORTH HIS SALT will direct you to take a shot on any species over 300 yds, most not over 200 yds (he will be pleased if you can hit a 5gal bucket at 100 yds), so ANY cal over 30 that shoots a 220 gr bullet at 2600 or above is excellent for alaska. If you are a man, you will be serious enough to go straight to a 35 Whelen or 338wm or 375 h&h and cut out the kid sh-t. "SUPER" rifles or calibers get people in trouble up here. Don't screw around. There is nothing to prove. Do it right, or stay home. The guide has a family, too !!!
PS. I carry an ultra-quick handling 7 lb 458 with ghost rings to cover the "COOL" hunter with the funny rifle calibre. Ever flown a supercub withm a broken collar bone ?? It is not fun, and I cuss you all the way back home.

grape creek,

that is a pretty funny post!

It is actually a very serious post. You must not have much experience guiding.
Had a client several years ago who wanted to do a head shot on a brown. I tried to talk him out of it, but he was insistent. He was shooting a wonderful European classic in 9.3 something-or-other to which he had added 3gr Varget in order to make the round "equal to" a 375 H&H (got info off the internet) without telling me of the difference.
The short of it is that the rifle was now shooting quite a bit higher, so his first shot missed target (the brain) due to ricochet. The rifle had to be hammered open (much higher pressures) for the second shot (gut-shot) and failed to open at all again...and I had to protect the client at 15 yards as the bear appeared from around a rise at 30mph. The bear was probably dead when it ran over me, but I still got 3 busted ribs, a broken collar bone, a broken nose, and lost 2 front teeth. Looked like I had gone 10 rounds with George Foreman. And I told the client about all the way back to McGrath.
I really don't care what round you shoot, as long as you are realistic about your ballistics, and shoot the round within it's given parameters.
sorry if i impuned any calibre or person. my earlier post was not meant to be a personal affront, it was just an expression of my personal frustration from having to deal with the "new" and often inferior rounds now in the marketplace, and the unrealistic attitudes toward same.
Have fun with your own shooting.

I would say the 338 RUM shooting 300gr round nose bullets at 2720 fps.

I feel this could be an all round cartridge.

I haven't done much guiding, not any to be honest, but seems to me "any guide worth his salt" would demand that a hunter at least check his zero before heading out after brown bear. Especially after traveling all the way up here for a brown bear hunt. A few shots at a practice range would have pointed out all these problems in advance. Second I wouldn't have let him take that shot at the bears head. When it came right down to it the guide was responsible for everything that happens on that hunt and telling a client no, while not indusive to a great tip, is part of the job. It sounds to me like the situation has less to do about caliber or ballistics and more to do with a guy being an idiot and you not taking a few standard precautions. A 338 WM with an over pressure load woud have worked just as poorly in that situation. Let the blame settle where it should on the client not his gun of choice.

I'm going to jump back in this one to say that guides have some "control" over clients but we are not dictators and even though a guy may shoot passably on the range it is NO idication of what the will do when they get up close to a bear. I've had clients who did ok on the range shoot big bears in the hind foot from 50 yards. I had a client sight in at camp and when inspecting his rifle in camp found out he was firing 300 Win cartridges in a 300 Wby !! I've also had clients who saved one particular round for their bear only to find out later it too was an overload. there is no way we guides can detect all these things. hunters can research their guides and get references but it doesn't work the other way around.
Again, there is no single all purpose cartridge for Alaska - or anywhere else - but there are plenty that will get the job done IF THE HUNTER KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING !!!

wow, you fellas that guide sure are in the top 10 high risk jobs in the world ! I know when I take someone out that they get an ear full before we head out. It is serious work being a hunter and your interest a guide as well. That is why I personally only insist certain individuals hunt with me- even if he has a .30-30, with my reloads of 170 partitions and that is with one or two elders that like the caliber. It is experience under pressure with proper bullet selection and shot placement. I don't guide and don't see it happening.

The point is if the shot is not placed correctly then it don't matter what caliber you select. If guided then listen to your guide--he's the one that will get you in and most likely back.

Any gun that you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately from 30-06 to 375 H&H will do.

As far as bullets the standard premiums like NP's, A-frames, Tsx's etc will work in Alaska just like they work anyplace else in the world. I would go with the one that you are confident in and shoots well from your rifle.

My first choice would be a 338 caliber. I would personally take my 338-06 loaded with 210gr TSX's and call it good enough. For big bears I might go up to 225gr NP or TSX. But I am real confident that my standard load w/210gr would punch right through.

The 30's have been used successfully on anything that walks.

The new 375 Ruger intrigues me and if I didn't have a 416 Rigby. I would be pretty serious about building a DG rifle in that cartridge.
It might be a little too much as an all around though.

The 35's are a great caliber, but I have never taken a liking to them.

Remember that most of this is a mental excercise as bullet placement is much more important than actual caliber.

Not trying to be a flamer or whatever, but wasn't the original question something about a single rifle that would do everything in AK, from mountain Dalls to coastal Browns, and the implication that this would all be done on a single trip? While many of the options presented here would work (especially the 30-06 thru .375 suggestions), is it even very feasible to consider that most (if any) guys will be able to combine Dall sheep and Browns, and everything in between, on a single hunt that requires a single rifle? Talk about compromises in gear too! Do I take the hip/waders on my back up the mountain, or stick with the Meindels in the swamps? Heavy coastal raingear up the mountain, or lighter flimsier stuff in the alders chasing Browns? Bombshelter up the mountain, or lightweight backpackers shelter on the windy/wet coast, etc. Maybe I'm missing something here (and probably am) but I'd say devising a rifle/load to do it all would be much easier than coming up with one set of gear, clothes, and food, much less finding the time, to do it all on one trip?

If it were me, I'd take a large caliber rifle with heavy bullets and low power scope on my bear/moose hunt, and a lighter flatter shooting rifle (maybe even with a higher power scope) when I went up the mountains for the criters there.

ICUdoc, get a grip. you make way to much sense for a forum of this caliber. Plus, when I guided in the Brooks range I wore ankle fit hip boots on at least half of my sheep hunting trips. Nobody ever accused us Alaskan guides of being too smart.

Dear ICUDoc:

My original question concerned an all purpose cartridge for Alaska hunting, that specifically excluded sheep hunting. It appears from my research, that the combination hunts really drop the cost of hunting in Alaska, and since one rifle is pretty much all that I could take on a puddle jumper plane, well, you get the idea.

What I was looking for were opinions based on Alaska hunting and guiding experience. Got lots of great advice, particularly from Mr. Shoemaker.

As to other apparel, I'd ask my outfitter in advance.

What I'm doing now is following the Boy Scout motto: "Be Prepared".

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale (Chris)-
As I said, I'm probably missing something, and missed your sheep exclusion. That being said, I'd vote for a .338 or .375 with heavy swift or TSX bullets. Good luck!

grape creek;

a lot of truth to your first post. spot on.


over pressure handloads; guess that is why most guides require factory loaded ammo.

another gem of wisdom mentioned above, shooting from the bench verifies the rifle's zero and may not be an accurate indicator of how well the client will shoot under field conditions, with some induced stress.

as for caliber selection;

this topic has come up many times and will be in the achives thru the search feature.

there are many good choices, how about starting from .30-06, .300 w.m., .300 wthby, .338 w.m., 340. wthby. .358 n.m., any of these loaded with 200 + gr. premium bullets of your choice that the gun likes will do just fine. the options are almost endless.

the trophy bonded bear claw sucks....

The favorite all around caliber used to be the .300 Win Mag.
I myself have a .338 for bear and a 7mm Rem Mag for moose.
To us Alaskans a gun is more a tool than anything so you need the right one for the right job.

Very simply put: 338-06, 35 Whelen or 9.3x62.

If you insist on magnum velocities, 338 WM.

I can't imagine needing anything else.

Yale... I like the 358 Norma well enough that I have two. One a 7 pounder on a Ruger action the other 9 pounds on a Sako.

The Norma is a fantastic round but kicks with heavy bullets in the 7 pound version. I also like a twist a bit faster than the 16" found on many factory barrels. I'd go 14" if you have the choice.

As for bullets here is an article I wrote last year on bullets and the 35. http://www.35cal.com/35bullet_study/35bullet_study1.html

Enjoy. Good choice with the Norma. Fantastic round.

The 338 win mag is nice essespecially with 275 KBC,s or the old 300 barnes or other heavy bullets for bear and something like the 225 which ever boat tail bonded or mono metal bullet you want .It IS NOT the most popular brown bear rifle tho!!! and not the best by a long shot. Guides use it because its cheap , plentiful and it won,t kick them . Most guides are much more hunter than rifle man and they don,t mind shooting a bear a bunch of times to keep it on the ground .{458 WIN }is an execption in guideing , not the rule.Hard to beat the 338 RUM in a factory stainless rem if long range is in the offing. The factory 250 Swift is an awesome load all around.

quote:

over pressure handloads; guess that is why most guides require factory loaded ammo.

I have never heard of a guide requiring factory rounds. That is a little extreme, I would be a lot more worried about the hunter that didn't know enought about their rifles, or rifles in general that they used factory ammo.

DR B

.338 WinMag. Developed specifically for large Alaskan game animals. If it isn't broke, Don't fix it. Just my opinion.

The 358 Norma Magnum is a potent cartridge, to say the least. I got rid of my 338 Win. Mag. in favor of my Norma and used it to kill a brown bear this past spring with it.

I would do it in the new 375 ruger and shoot 270 grn TSXs

quote:

Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:
The 358 Norma Magnum is a potent cartridge, to say the least. I got rid of my 338 Win. Mag. in favor of my Norma and used it to kill a brown bear this past spring with it.

Is there any ammo in the stores for it, or do you reload?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I would do it in the new 375 ruger and shoot 270 grn TSXs

A 250-grain TSX out of a .338WM does well too, and if for whatever reason one can't reload at the moment, one can buy ammo for it just about anywhere in Alaska.

A 300 grainer out of the popular .375 H&H does well, too, and there is ammo for it just like there is for the .338WM.

Has anyone seen what rifles Ruger will be makeing the 375 Ruger in ? I was real glad they came out with the 350 Rem Mag. in stainless. So I bought one. It was like the 338 but shorter and lighter.
It would be nice if they would put a 20 or 22 " barrel on it .. But the biggest thing is .If somehow There could be somekind of LAW that would say and enforce ,a mandatory caneing to every gunwriter who complanes that some nice round and rifle kicks..Like the Rem Guide Rifle in 350 Rem. or the 416 Rem. Or just about any other nice round . Some { WORTHLESS INCOMPETENT MALINGERING PUKE } = wimp wines about it.
Magizine editors should just forbid that . Its all totally subjective any way. And is probably just a way for a writer to make a few extra bucks filling space. Some of them are just wimps tho..
The problem is , the wimps whine , The sports bar urbanites pay too much attention to the wimps ., Then after a couple years the ammo companies stop makeing ammo and discontinue the rifles. Hopefully no wimps will do a writeup on the 375 Ruger. And hopefully Alaskans and people all over the world will glaoum on to it and cause every ammo manufacturer to come out with great factory loads for it.
A 235 gr tricked out secant ogive boattail spitzer ,bonded core or mono metal expanding @2850 fps . plus the regular run of 270 gr sptz and 300 gr. exp. and solid. It may be pushing the envelop to put the 380 gr Rhino exp. bullet in it . But doubtless some South African will.
So hopefully Ruger will do it right , which they have a good history of. And next fall we,ll see who can be the first person to shoot a Brown Bear with the new 375 Ruger. Heck mayby spring bear.. Have a good day .. gumboot out.