Mark's recent post about goat hunting from a 60' boat got me thinking about boats. By the way, Mark is hunting from a very nice custom trawler setup. Check out that webpage to get the specs.

Who else has a boat or is looking for one? I have a 21' long 72" wide Sea Ark that is all welded with a tunnel. My motors are a 75 hp 4 stroke Yamaha long shaft outboard with a 15 hp 2 stroke Johnson kicker. I also have a CMC lift for the main motor and highly recommend them. I'm obviously running the rivers (Yukon, Porcupine, Sheejek, etc) as opposed to some of you out in the salt.

I have a great desire to live someday in SE AK. I am very curious about guys who have boats down there or are looking at boats. Any advice on where to do research about custom live aboard trawlers, etc? Any particular classifieds websites, forums or other online boat info that you like?

This could turn out to be a very informative thread about boats. What do you say?

I have a 22' Wooldridge with a 150 OMC Ficht Intruder on it. Am looking for a boat that I can use fo my future retiremant home though.

I have several links bookmarked for yacht brokers and just boat brokers. A couple of them right here in Alaska. E-mail me if you want any links.

www.dockstreetbrokers.com

www.yachtworld.com

www.tidewater-bkg.com

www.ifqalaska.com

[ 10-16-2003, 04:53: Message edited by: Allen Glore ]

My plan this winter, and I hope it makes it past the planning stage, is to build 21' Tolman widebody http://www.xyz.net/~mgrt/ w/ cuddy cabin and pilot house, and strap a 90 hp Yamaha 4 stroke on the back. It is big enough to take my family in, small enough to easily pull w/ the Toy truck, and seaworthy enough for me to have some confidence in the salt water. There is a great group of Tolman builders/users on yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tolmanskiff/

Future plans also include moving out of the city for Kodiak. I'll settle on getting the boat done this spring, and taking it on the Ferry over to Kodiak for a few weeks next summer. Not to mention cruising PWS and Kachemak Bay.

Paul there is a 22" or 24" Tolman for Sale in Homer. Has 50 hours total on it.

Yukon,

As far as your question goes..... Live aboards; A lot of folks I know in SE have pretty large sail boats. Reason is they are 45 ft + long, handle rough seas and easy on the fuel cost. Granted it is a major project getting underway when you live aboard, but you can pick up and move. Sort of a RV on the water, not fast, but it will get you to the place you want to be next.

The current boat I have is a 1999 StabiCraft, 19.5 ft long and a 6 ft. beam with a 90 hp four stroke Honda and a 9.9 hp four stroke Honda kicker.

It is a all aluminum with a hard top cuddy cabin. Sort of a Zodiac concept, except the pontoons are all sealed aluminum tubes. The boat is a New Zeland design, made for very rough weather. It will get you home if you are up to it. She holds 50 gal. of fuel and cruises at 28 knots with a top end of 34-35 knots with the wind to the stearn, flat calm and down hill. I do get about 5 miles to the gallon at cruising speed..........Plus it is very easy to pull to shore. Nice for those "I SEE SOMETHING OVER THERE WITH FUR" times. Did I mention it also catches fish...........

[ 10-16-2003, 09:36: Message edited by: CK ]

I have a 19" Workskiff with a custom cabin, powered by a Yamaha 115 with a Honda 8 hp 4 stroke kicker. I had it built up when I lived in Petersburg and get guys asking me all the time if I want to sell it. Great rig for hunting and fishing in any weather. The only thing I'd change is to go to a Yamaha 115 4 stroke.

My wife wants to get something big enough to sleep aboard, and I'm not one to say no to a bigger boat, probably a cruiser around 28-30". There are some good deals now on seiners and trollers that make decent live-aboards.

We have had a sailboat for quite a while now. As we are getting older we are using it less and less.

Maybe when the wife retires we will cruise on it in the summer like we used to but the odds are not high.

This last spring was so wet and last summer so hot that at our age we just can't and don't have to take it anymore.

I noticed all the Alaska guys have fairly large boats. Not being familiar with the waters up there, are you able to navigate fairly far up the rivers? Are canoes usable?

A couple of years ago, a fellow pointed out a boat used up there that is sort of a mini LCVP. They looked good, anyone seen one in use?

Hobie,

If I had a jet foot on my outboard Honda, I for one would not hesitate taking my StabiCraft up rivers.

CK,

Are most of the rivers in AK rocky? Average depth?

Well, heck, I'm a canoe or guide boat kind of guy so I don't know a whole lot about motors except what my grandfather taught me. That was over 30 years ago (darn, 31 years ago!). But I do know what you're talking about.

I remember helping my grandfather change the shear pin in the "middle" of Lake George. He was standing on the bottom (rock), as was I (most of the time ). Lots of fun for a kid, but I doubt he was very happy...

With a jet you don't have to worry about such things, but I guess that leads to another question, how far up could you go?

BTW, when I was in Moosonee, ON I noticed that the standard motor was the 40 horse Yamaha. What's standard, most common, out your way?

I'm in the Yukon and use a 19'aluminum jet boat with a 12 degree vee hull 1/4" thick.It handles the big lakes well and will run 1n 5-6" of water.Hard on fuel though 6gal/hour @ 33mph.If you need to get up river in a hurry though she will top out @ 48mph, afun toy.

I'll field the river question...I live in Fort Yukon which is one of the larger villages on the interior river system. The village sits on the fork of the Yukon and Porcupine Rivers. We have more boats around here per capita then most places. You might be surprised but most people do NOT prefer jets up here. The fuel mileage is terrible and you actually do not need the jet to go shallow. We use transom jacks/lifts that you can run in inches. I have lifted my outboard and tilted it so much the prop was mostly out of the water to run very shallow...keep in mind that's with a 400 lb outboard. It's no wonder the natives with their 25's and 40's can run so shallow. I previously had a Phantom Sport Jon and while I could run shallow it usually was just effective in getting me stuck worse than a prop motor would. Jets might go a bit shallower but they'll get you stuck worse too. Most boats, if run correctly, can go very shallow when on step/plane but come off step and any boat will get stuck. It's kind of unnerving to run high speed through shallows on purpose!

The rivers, as mentioned, have a lot of gravel bars and you cannot see the depth. Actually, to see the depth you look at the surface tension on the water. The top of the water tells you what the bottom looks like. Sounds strange but makes more sense in person.

Forgot to answer some questions...average motor brand up here (for newer motors) is Yamaha or Honda and most guys get the 4 stroke if they can afford it. A few guys have kickers/backups but most don't. I prefer one for various reasons.

The average depth on the Yukon/Porcupine depends on the time of season. Right now it's freezing up and the water has mostly gone into the sea so there is very little water and a lot of gravel/mud showing. The water is probably about 4 ft at the deepest and most of it is not navigable except for one very small channel. In the spring after breakup the river might be 15 or 20 feet deep. As the season progresses the water level drops. I'm on the river almost daily and it changes almost daily. You have to really pay attention as the gravel bars are shifting, water levels changing, big sweepers (especially in Yukon), etc. The Yukon is not for beginners.

My boat is for saltwater on Prince William Sound, or the inside waters of SE. We do have the Copper River delta here, and lots of guys have jet boats and there are a few dozen air boats in town, for the diehard moose hunters. The air boats are amazing, closest thing to sitting on an air hockey puck and can pack tremendous loads.

I used to work out in Bristol Bay, there some rocky rivers over there, but learn the channel and a prop will work fine. One boat I used had an ancient 35 Johnson that of course had a busted tilt lock, so we used a chunk of 2x4 jammed under the motor to "lock" it up when parked. I pulled into Naknek one day for supplies, and tilted the motor up, and an old native guy saw me sticking the wood under the motor, started laughing and said, "that's an old indian trick!" I told him I learned it from an old indian.

With freezeup coming, I imagine you'll all be hauling your boats (those on the rivers). I don't know but what all this boating sounds like fun.

Running across the shallows is what my grandpa was doing when we struck a rock and the shear pin did its job! Sorry, but 35 years later I can STILL see Grandpa's face when that happened. I thought it was too cool to have to break out the oars, drop anchor, go over the side to pull the prop, etc. The joys of youth!

I know that those long drive shaft motors like you used to see in SEA are popular in the south for going through shallow water (mud in some places )

A canoe that 2 can handle (i.e. easily portage) won't handle much cargo but a guide boat would do all right.

How far up is the Yukon tidal?

Can't speak to the Yukon but the Kuskokwim has tidal affect to about 130 miles upriver from the mouth.

I can't give any tidal info as I am a long way from the ocean. However, it has always fascinated me how much power the moon has. Tides are truly fascinating. Those around Cook Inlet will attest to the awesome power of a bore tide. It's literally an irrestible force. The moon even affects the animals we hunt.

I've never understand why we quit going to the moon. To me, it's much more relevant than Mars, etc.

Hobie it sounds like you need to come up and check it out for yourself. We use a lot of canoes up here too but mostly on the lakes to shoot ducks, geese and tundra swans. The current on the Yukon is about 12 so that's pretty stout for paddles. Some of the Natives are pretty handy with a paddle. In fact, when I hunt with them I'm the designated shooter and they're the designated paddler.

If you're ever in Fairbanks take the time to fly up and see me (flight is about $150). I'll take you out on the river.

With the rivers going as shallow as you all post, why are air boats not used or popular up there?

Noise, fuel mileage, too short, low on weight capacity despite what some say, etc. etc. In short, zero advantages vs. many disadvantages.

Let's see, just counted my boats tonight. Have 9, including a canoe, two rafts, an inflatable, four skiffs to 18' (one with a jet) and a 22' C-Dory with twin outboards. There are different, specialized uses for them all. Alaska is so big and the waters so diverse that you can't just ask generic questions about boating here. There is a use for about every type of watercraft you can imagine.

Yukon is right about airboats. Fuel is a real issue. In my limited experience you would be lucky to get a mile to the gallon with an airboat capable of hauling a moose. Not only is it expensive, but logistically impossible to make any trip of any length. Plus, they are just dang noisy.

Going off of Rob's comments, fuel is a major reason why I quit using a jet and wouldn't even consider an airboat. Some of my boat trips are over 100 miles long...one way. Speaking of fuel, I pay $3.10 per gallon in Fort Yukon.

a little of topic, but when I seined out of Chignik, a local captain took his 52 footer seiner up the Chignik River to the village, I did the same thing with a 18 foot Lund and was nervous, did I mention he was local?
Most of the guys up there wouldn't risk the big boat, but I have run up many a river with a skiff, for moose, caribou, and just for the hell of it. Pump technology is better now than it was 15 years ago, so go with a shallow V hull on a Lund or something like it, with a outboard pump, you should be able to run safely in a foot(or less) or so, and be able to handle a little snotty water.
Just look at what the people who live there use, and copy it, they know what works, and what won't.
The catacraft's are too cool, I fished the Willow north of Anchortown, with another local guy, and ran in water that was just a few inches(at times), I have been saving my pennies to buy that sort of outfit for down here in central Washington, there are rivers that need my attention

I run in S.E. Alaska with a 24 foot Fiberform cabin cruiser. There are a ton of draw backs to running a deep draft cabin cruiser like mine though. I can't hit the 'beach' like the aluminum boat crowd. I have to carry a raft, then anchor the big boat, before hitting the beach unlike like the aluminum crowd. It takes too darn long!

The advantage is the fact that I've run several hundred miles from Petersburg to 'points unknown' with my boat.

There is no 'perfect' boat down here, most folks agree it takes more than one boat to work for hunting or fishing. A big one to cruise with, towing a small one to hunt from.

[ 10-20-2003, 01:38: Message edited by: BW ]

Air boats have specific uses, just like any other boat. No, they're not for extended trips upriver. Yes, they can pack heavy weights: the guys around here with the small airboats cut the moose in half and take it out in two trips. The guys with the bigger boats take out whole moose. That's the whole moose except for the guts. Yes, they burn lots of expensive gas, we pay $2.30 last time i checked.

Locals hunt moose up to 100 miles east of here, on the far side of the Copper. They slap their air boat on the deck of a seiner and head out, and drop the airboat in near shore when they're in the vicinity. They'll run up sloughs and rivers, crossing muskegs, often covering 30 miles or more in a day.

A friend of mine packs out around a dozen moose each year in his airboat, powered by a 350 chevy. I saw a video a another friend made a couple weeks ago of his goat hunt. On returning to the boat launch he drove his airboat up the ramp, across about 50 yards of gravel and up onto the trailer. He's making a bigger, better boat this winter, as that one isn't powerful enough for him.

Airboats are not for every condition, but they're damn good at what they do.

[ 10-21-2003, 05:17: Message edited by: Whitehurst ]

Airboats? Okay if that is your only way there and you want to get there you will pay those extra costs simply to get there! & back! They are expensive both fuel wise & maintenance and can be very noisy. Well except for the ones with counter rotating props. Those are quieter then jet rigs. I have run the Copper & Chitina in them. To get to the buffalo, bear, sheep, etc, they are the way to go to get in to that country. As was said there is no best boat until one defines what one wants to use it for! All have pluses and downsides!

You can tell me that airboats are a preference for an area but necessary in Alaska? I don't buy it. I go real shallow and real far without them or a jet. The only airboats we had in the area we heard coming from miles away. They were clearly city folk from Fairbanks and frankly looked ridiculous. Airboats are popular in some areas but you can't convince me that they are necessary. Jetboats can be useful but necessary? Again, you can't convince me because I've been there and done that.

Who said airboats were necessary in Alaska? Why shoot a .30-'06 when a .223 will do the job? After all, the '06 is mighty noisy, and every game animal in the state can be killed with a .223. For that matter your outboard isn't necessary, canoes have been around for a long time. We both know that you can get by with a tool that's not really suited to the job, but why pound nails with a wrench when you can use a hammer? You say you go real shallow with a prop; ever drive your prop boat up on shore across a mile of muskeg to your moose and load it whole?

So what if the airboat makes noise, you don't stalk in a motorized vehicle.

Are you saying Cordova residents are city folk? LOLOL! Isn't there a small chance that a guy who was born and raised in this area, working on boats his entire life might, just might, be able to figure out what kind of boat works best for a particular application? I know, you been there done that, but maybe there's a local guy or two here that has been there, done that in this area. Remember, this is a town that makes its money fishing some of the most dangerous waters in the state. Boats and boating they know.

For the country that these guys hunt it is simply the most efficient way to get to the game. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, I'm trying to let you know that what works on the Yukon might not be what works on the Gulf Coast.

[ 10-21-2003, 11:54: Message edited by: Whitehurst ]

I've done a lot of flying around Cordova, and a bit of hunting and fishing.

I'd agree that there are areas there where an airboat works really well.

You just can't trim an outboard up high enough to run on muskeg.

I shouldn't have said that about airboats. There are applications for lots of different equipment up here. I wrote my last post after wrestling all day with an old boiler. We're putting in a new one here and I was cold and tired when I wrote that. My mistake and I'll admit it.

You guys need to check out the pro drive outboards made for very shallow water. They do not go very fast, about 22 mph, but are hell for stout. Go to www. prodriveoutboards.com.

Boltgun

Are there alot of freighter canoes in use in alaska,as stated earlier I use a jet and like it for my uses,some outboards can run shallow with the motor tilted all the way up but won't carry any speed.I can come up river with a couple of guys and gear with a moose and still run over 40mph,I burn some fuel 6gal/hour There is no free lunch.There alot of the freighters in the yukon,I think they must work well and talk about a payload,Scott canoes now make 22' frighters out of kevlar,should be industructable-no place for a downrigger for trolling though!

HI,

I plan on moving to SE, AK myself. I have been looking at MUNSON boats, they have the bowl which is a gate that will drop and can be loaded from shore. Kev

Kev,

We have a few large Munson landing craft around here, but the larger 21 + foot with a wheel house are super expensive. Maybe a guy could afford open skiff design of 18 foot. The problem is with a small open skiff design is the weather. If you get caught in open water in a big blow, you will find yourself in a world hurt in the winter time, which is during the middle of hunting season. So if you are going with a landing craft, go with something at least 20 + foot with a enclosed wheel house to protect and keep you warm from the weather. Even a simple trip across a bay in the winter has killed many a hunter around these parts in a open skiff design.

I am an Airboat user also. My smaller boat is powered by a Mazda rotary engine with a supercharger. I burn about 8 gallons of fuel an hour. But I dam well guarantee you that you will not follow me in a boat that has anything in the water to push it. This boat is a 5x16 and the only problem with it is it is a little narrow. When it is light I can run it on grass. When loaded it sits in the water so deep that I have to trick it on step by diving into the shallows. A couple of times I have hit the shallows to hard and stuck it. Then you unload it back into the deep water and reload then try it again. Once you are on step with a heavy load 1" to 6" of water is where it runs good. If you have to cross a channel in a big river it falls off step in the deep water. When loaded heavy I usually burn between 12 � 18 gallons per hr. The heaviest I have loaded it was with 50 extra gallons of fuel and the quarters off of two moose. That trip worked the piss out of the boat and me.
If you don�t have an Airboat you are not going up the river further than I am unless you fly in and throw a raft in the river. I am now in the process of building a bigger one. It will be 8�x 18� It will be powered by a 502 Chevy and I really do not care how much fuel it burns as it will haul the world.

18 gallons an hour...whew! That would cost me $55 an hour to run. That 502 will burn more than that (as you said). How do those airboats do in heavy chop? It always sounded like a rough ride to me.

I'v got a 23ft x 8 ft custom aluminum vessel with a walk through front door to an open deck, it's powered by a 225 Yamaha. We had her built in 97 by Allen Marine in Sitka, they do a fine job. It's got a 90 gal fuel tank so we can go some distance even with the 225 inhaleing (sic) the gas. I use it a lot running to our cabin as well as for hunting and fishing, can fish 4 rods trolling and also for "Butt" no problem. As with all toys of this caliber you have to have the other toys to go along with it right got lots of electronics and it's tastfully appointed to keep the little women comfortable?
We'll keep her (the boat)(and the wife too) for a long time and will be looking for something comfortable and cruisable for when we tire of the semi-remote cabin experience.

I'v got a 23ft x 8 ft custom aluminum vessel with a walk through front door to an open deck, it's powered by a 225 Yamaha. We had her built in 97 by Allen Marine in Sitka, they do a fine job. It's got a 90 gal fuel tank so we can go some distance even with the 225 inhaleing (sic) the gas. I use it a lot running to our cabin as well as for hunting and fishing, can fish 4 rods trolling and also for "Butt" no problem. As with all toys of this caliber you have to have the other toys to go along with it right got lots of electronics and it's tastfully appointed to keep the little woman comfortable?
We'll keep her (the boat)(and the wife too) for a long time and will be looking for something comfortable and cruisable for when we tire of the semi-remote cabin experience.