....How to live , work , and not loose body parts to it ...,.,And I mean North Slope 40 below with 30 knt winds working 12 hour shifts as a Laborer building ice roads kind of cold .,.,Or caribou hunting off the Richardson in the Black Rapids area /Delta Junction kind of cold ..., How to keep from freezing your lungs ,., And why do they put hand warmer pouches in the kidney area of the better Canada Goose parkas .........Thanks for any real knowledge ,, Canadian and northern European/Asian welcome also ...

I had a full northern outfitters fat-kid suit when I was a cop in Barrow.

I rode a sled for 5-9 hours a day hunting caribou and never got cold. Well I had a snowmobiling helmet on too.

Anyway..... Northern Outfitters!

The majority of heat loss from the body is in the head, neck, tops of the shoulders and spinal column area. Heavy insulation is required here, and good face masks. The kidney warmers keep the lower back warm. Gloves with good insulation, with long gauntlets, and boots are important. I use the best boots available for extreme cold. I place a scarf over my mouth to keep freezing air out of my lungs. Foot warmers, and hand warmers are also important. I place a hand warmer inside my coat near my heart too. Drink lots of water.

Don

Gum:

I live in California now, but have lived in cold climates. To add to what has been said, food and hydration are critical. Figure on 3,500 to 4,500 calories per day, and stay away from alcohol and caffine. For food, go with complex carbohyrates and protein.

Additonal insulation at the lower back is specifically to keep the kidneys warm, thru which all of your blood flows; I know this because of my vast experience with the icy winters here in the SF Bay Area, where it often drops into the low 30's, or even the high 20's, every winter

Regards,
Craig Nolan

I like to wear a base layer of polypro with normal jeans and a fleece sweater for around the cabin or lodge but when I jump on my scandic I'll throw on a heavy snow suit.
Down to about -10f I'll wear my refridgerwear below that I have an old down snow suit that was issued by ARCO up on the slope.

I have worm feet so I get by fine on LaCross snow packs but at -40 most would need bunny boots

Good advice on clothing and particularly carb intake. Depending on your needs, for footwear you could get bunny boots if for work but I really like mukluks otherwise. I regularly wear various sets of Steger mukluks (http://www.mukluks.com/) down to 60 plus below with smartwool socks and that's it. They only weigh about 2 lbs each with their felt liners, which feels great compared to pac boots or bunny boots. Smartwool socks, balaclavas, hats, glove liners, long underwear, etc. is all top notch and very popular up here.

Some of the best outwear I have found is by Canada Goose.
http://www.canada-goose.com/products/products.aspx?Class=Men

Gents!
I have found out that the best material so far when it gets cold is 100% wool and nothing else. It beats the crap of synthetics and cotton.
It still keeps you warm when it is moist, can be freze dried and keeps you warm for several days in a row without changing clothes. It does not catch fire easily, it cleans itself and does not stain too easily. 1 pair of liner gloves inside the mittens for short time "fine mechanic" work.
I use a Gator neoprene face mask, clear goggles a good "bear pussy" (as it is called here, directly transferred from crude/raw swedish, it is big, wet, smelly and very hairy...) skin hat that is windproof and warm. I also use a snowmobile flotation suit when on the snowmobile, together with a back protector that also keeps the back and kidneys warm.

Why keeping the kidneys warm?
Because when the body gets colder, the kidneys are over-activated, and starts to produce lots and lots of urine, making you loose fluids faster and faster, and it takes a lot of energy just to keep that pee 37°C, and the colder you get, the more the kidneys try to produce....
so, therefore, keep the kidneys warm and nice and you dont have to pee that often.
Make sure you drink a lot of warm sweet (just a little salt) drinks without any caffeine (no coffee or tea as it is diuretic) with vitamin C.
It takes energy to warm food, so make sure you eat warm meals, and dont skip the fat. You need all the energy you can get when the shit hits the fan in a blizzard in midwinter.
On tours in high arctic environments, you always eat as if the meal were the last one. I have many times only managed to get one warm meal / day when it has been busy, although it was planned for 3 meals originally and then you make sure you eat to stand atleast one more day on the things in your belly.
Also, I always keep enough food and clothes on my person to survive 24 hours without anything else than what I am wearing, have an extra facemask/balaklava inside the suit together with extra gloves/mittens/goggles/windbreaker hat. That means I have a piece of dried reindeer or moose meat in one pocket, a bag of mixed nuts and dried fruits in another, a 1/2 lbs salami in a chest pocket, a 200 gram chocholate bar as well as 1-2 pints of blackcurrant juice/lemonade inside the suit.

Yes, i look like the michelin man, but if the snowmobile is caught on fire (has happened more than once) or the gearbox is broken down, or goes through the sea ice or any other calamity that leaves you alone in the middle of nowhere, I can atleast walk back in the tracks and know that I will make atleast one night and a day without too much troubles.

If you are out on a longer trip on skies, you will bring a tent and a primus kitchen, and then you have a big backpack, and thats a totally different condition than to manage extreme cold.
You have to eat less if you eat more fat, but to digest the fat you need to have a good intake of carbohydrates too. When working 16 hrs shifts with 1 warm meal / day at 78-79°N we skipped the veggies and went for better nutrients in eggs, meat, fat, slow carbs (whole grain stuff).

There are lots and lots to tell about this, but one last thing is that when things go wrong, THINK FIRST, THINK TWICE, then act.
If you are not completely clear on how you will do all things that are needed, you will waste energy and start to sweat for a bad reason. When you are done, you are all wet and exhausted, and then the troubles start. Avoid to sweat and you are much better off! Work slowly and in an even pace, do not stress things. There will be times when you find a 1" thick ice armour inside your shoes or jacket, but dont worry, it can be removed quite easily by prying it loose or whacking it to pieces, and then the clothes are dry again.

In Life/death emergencies it is of course needed to act swiftly and accurately, rather than sitting back and think about it for a few hours.... but thats kind of obvious...

Thats all for now...
Phew, a long one that above...

Sincerely
Daniel

.......Ya ,., Huglu That was quite the epistle ..But ALL GOOD INFO for me to read again a number of times ...
I don,t know about the wool,, but I use wool some ,., in some aplications ....your right it doesn,t catch fire easily or melt to the skin ...But polar tec is some pretty great stuff and it weighs less.......However I may give the black wool another try .,., I,m very experienced with cold and wet but not extreme cold and dry .....In Southeaast and south central Alaska it is very easy to get hypothermia any month of the year ,, and to die of it in the fall and winter .......But even if it kills you you would still be bendable where as the Artic cold is a different thing because it is so dry , and just so much colder .....,.,Heres a ? ,,, does down acumulate persperation moisture to the point where it substantially affects its insulation ability ??,,,,,,,,How do you keep your breath warm enough so you don,t frost your lungs ?????I enjoy reading long posts ......Thanks for the link Yk Delta .......Thanks for all the reply,s .....Does haveing a beard increase the risk of frost bite to the face?? or decrease the risk ??

Gumboot
The reason why I choose wool is because I start to freeze with other materials while wool has always kept me warm. if it is 100% merino wool, it does not itch either. Have that as the first layer and it works in both dry and wet cold.

Down
Down is good just as long as it is dry.
When enough moisture is trapped in the sleeping bag or jacket, it just becomes a ice armour that slowly cools you down. I would guess a week trip is about what a down product can withstand without loosing too much insolation. Then it needs to dry completely. They also gets very heavy when it is cold, and hard to pack.
The more extreme sleeping bags have moisture traps to avoid build-up of ice inside them. Make sure you maintain and care for the sleeping bag in a good way. I had a -55°C sleeping bag on a trip where we slept in a snow cave (+-0°C) and I were freezing like a dog, shaking all night. That sleeping bag was probably washed too much.

Beards
A beard helps you avoid frostbites if you are without a face mask, since the exhaled air will create icicles in the beard instead of on your skin.trapped air between beard and skin makes it warmer too. avoid any kind of zippers on the first layer since they get tangled in the beard and transport cold to the body.

How to take a breath in extreme cold?
I have found the best way to do it is to take slow deep breaths trough the mouth. When it is that cold your nostrils freeze shut if you try to breath through the nose (happens around -23°C for me). The facemask really helps here too. you will have a ice plate around the nose and mouth, and the incoming air is a bit warmed. Another way is to keep a scarf or bandana infront of the mouth and breath through it. That will freeze too in a while, make sure you have several of those. I have not had a problem to take breaths down to -50°C so far.

Hypothermia can come any time of the year, and is especially likely when you are forced to be idle, or in cold conditions, these things multiply with eachother for rapid escalation of severity in a bad situation.
On the other hand, I would take bone dry cold over wet cold any day. The wet coldness on the arctic pack ice is far worse than the dry cold of an ice cap.

For shoes, I have used the Sorel Glacier mukluks and these are good to have when it is really cold. The bad thing with these is that it will be a build-up of ice between the felt sole and the outer boot. It can be scraped off with a metal spoon though. 5 days and you have to clean it.
Same thing goes with the baffin shoes. So, there is some maintenance needed in the field too if you are out there for a longer time.

Diesel and petrol start to freeze too when it is really cold, making the engines run badly. The military band wagons usually stop operating at -50 to -55°C, and when it is that cold, I prefer to be indoors....

Sincerely
Daniel

Daniel,

EXCELLENT posts with very good information.
Although I do have some Down filled coats and vests, I am a BIG fan of wool. Wool socks are THE very best socks to wear in cold weather. And, I also have a Filson Double Mac Cruiser that I will never sell. I like it for all the reasons you stated.

Don

I think you guys are full of ideas that will work when it's cold. North Slope cold and what your used to are two different things.

In the North Slope natives wear handmade parkys made from sheep skins, and canvas. Or native raw fur outfits.

Most whites that work outside wear www.northernoufitters.com gear.

The suit is $1000, and worth every penny. Add a snowmachine helmet and your ready for anything in the north.

In extreme cold folks on the slope don't work 12 hour shifts, they have regular breaks and limits on how long they can be out in extreme cold.

The toughest part about staying warm in extreme cold is if you vary your exertion. When you're really exerting yourself you don't need lots of insulation, but when you're standing still you do.

-30 with a 30 mph wind is damn cold, and I try and avoid such.

......Huglu ...Thanks for answering my ?...I appreciate the time and effort spent ......,.I have been checking out the links and when I was in Anchorage this late fall I went to 6th Avenue Outfitters and tried on bunch of Canada Goose parkas and Bibs and pants ....They need a walk in freezer to really try parkas like the Resoulute and Snow Mantra as about 3 minutes was the max I could keep one on before starting to roast ............Refridgeware seems like it would be good to work in as it is more flexible than the Carhats Extreme Black ...When I lived in Salcha it got down to 62 below and the Carhart Extreme wasn,t warm enough for that......It was even marginal @ 40 below .......Thats the temp s we build ice roads at .....For hunting and trapping I have a good beaver Trappers/mushers hat , made in Slana ...for slope work I have to deal with the hard hat .and exertion is what I get paid to do .,.,Has anyone used one of the rebreather breath warmers ??.,Do they hold up .,are they hard to keep clean ????Has anyone tried the Cabela,s Trans Alaska suits ,.,????How warm are they ????? I know , I,ve got more ? than a 3 year old ,,,,Thanks ..

I agree with Paul in the fact that breaks are the norm in exreme cold. The gear I have worn since 75' up an in around Pru.bay and down to Atigun was mostly Arctic Carharts, Bunny Boots, Face Masks, heavy parkas of sorts generally down. Layering is always a must. Conditions of break downs with heavy equipment enroute to a destination is your probable scenario of frostbite or "standing" in heavy winds. The days of 125 below with wind chills are about over it seems and yet conditions of severe cold weather still exists. Communication links are up and running and help is generally near by.

Refridgewear is still a good cold hard working exterior working piece along with either Carhart or Down Parka. Shoe Paks of any sort still get cold.

Those were some good tough days,glad I was young

I'm gonna have nightmares about this post after reading how cold it can get and people still going outside.

Give me Africa heat anytime anywhere anyplace.

I didn't see where anyone has mentioned fur. I have a mink fur hat, it has some kind of quilting inside. My mitts are coyote with a nice wool felt lining. Both items work....period.

The last few years I've been using lots of fleece, but I started using more wool this year and I think it's better....although heavier. I especially like my felted wool vest, it keeps my core warm but allows easy arm movement, and is more windproof than fleece. Of course you have to wear a windproof layer somewhere in the mix.

A good heavy "dickie" to keep your neck,shoulders and the back of your head warm is also essential. The amount of heat that rises and escapes around your neck area is huge.

I tried some arctic guard mitts last year, I returned them. They have a reflective layer I think and it seems to make my hands sweat. I froze like no other mitts I've ever used.

the chef

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
I didn't see where anyone has mentioned fur. I have a mink fur hat, it has some kind of quilting inside. My mitts are coyote with a nice wool felt lining. Both items work....period.

I'll "mention" it! I've found nothing.....wool or fleece....that even comes close to fur for warmth in arctic conditions. I've been through them all and always come back to my beaver hat and mitts.

........Ya , I really need to get with the program and learn how to post pics ....I agree that nothing I have tried so far is as warm or long lasting as fur ..and a mushers/trappers beaver hat is AMAZING for when the wind is howling and the nose has froze shut .......I,de like to see Huglu in his [ bear pussy] ... . ,.,When I,m working I can,t use it because it don,t fit under a hard hat .,.,.,An Iditarod musher I worked for running dogs one winter had strips of soft side velcro sewn to the cheek to chin area of the sides of the beaver hats and polar fleece squares about 6"x8"with hook side velcro sewn onto them ...,.,that was the face mask system he had come up with and it worked great,,tho it wasn,t super wind proof ..,.,When they got snotted up you just pull it off and put another on .....

gumboot, your job is going to dictate what you can wear and what you cannot. I find no other top hat better suited for extreme cold than either my Sable or Beaver hat along with one of my nice pairs of moose mitts with beaver trim and caribou leg skin boots. The jobs I had could not allow the use of such fine fur, the hard hat liners and a hard hat along with a face mask was it as they got douched with oils of sorts. Now if I was a laborer then the fur hats would have been pure bliss!

Cabelas has them big suits you speak of and it has caught my attention a time or two but never have bought them. I still use arctic carhart suits and a down parka or a large arctic extreme carhart oversized. Cold is cold, no doubt about that. Warm up when you have to.

The days of trapping for me are not the same but when I get cold and I mean cold I will stop and build a small fire, warm up to a good cup of bean coffee, grab a fresh pinch of snuff and head out again. Carried them hand warmers for yrs but never have the time to use them-ha. Could see where when working up North that they would be quite handy.

I do have some fleece layering clothing and favor them highly-just don't sweat, we know that. When it gets cold you just have to "man" up or so it seems for me and get er done.

this is a good post, brings back some good days.

I put a baked potato, still hot and wrapped in aluminum foil, and put it in an inside vest pocket next to my body. It keeps my body core warm and after 1 1/2 to 2 hours, I stop and eat it - edible body warmer.

Namibiahunter

It's so cold up there that Gumboots "Enter" key appear to have frozen up!

........Ya .,.,.,.,Someplace it really white outs big time , like @ the DeLong Mountain Transfer facility area / Kivalina or up on the slope or @ Cape Lisburne ......My boss spent over 3 days in the cab of an 8 because the wind came up and he couldn,t see the blade while building an ice road ,, Temps of 40-60 below with 50 - 115 mph winds ..,.Yes pretty much all the time @ work there is a cab to get in , but when a guy is out hunting it,s a different story sometimes ........,,,.Has anyone ever[ had ]to dig a snow cave ????

Gumboot:-really great topic you`ve started here!
Many really important advice have been shared here. Especially from my fellow countryman Huglu. Seems like a very experienced guy.
I would like to add, if it hasnt been said, the importance of avoiding wind/cold leaking in from outside.
I try to buy stuff with as few zippers as possible, cause it does really matter. As an example, I tried a really good down jacket with a hood that you could zip off. Fancy, sure but not as warm as the ones made "solid". Seems ridiculous, but when it gets really cold, everything matters.

Once again, great topic. Many people forget how important clothes, food, preparations and planning is when you risk getting in to extreme situations.
Which is basically anytime you step out into the wild in the northern parts of our countries.

Asti,

Good point. One thing folks wouldn't think about unless they'd experienced it is that your pants will act like a chimney in extreme cold if there is any venting up high. I've had a pair of pants with a rip, and I discovered the rip because air was flowing up the pantleg.

If you can get them, animal furs (beaver, wolf, wolverine, otter, asian sheep, etc.) work well for jackets, hats, and mittens. The natives have been using them for thousands of years in those climates. Nature knows best.

One thing I wanted to add about food intake. You do need a lot of calories but also when your stomach digests food, it takes blood (I've heard up to 20%) out of your extremities for digestion. So you want to eat small amounts in shorter intervals to keep as much blood in your feet and hands as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
........Ya .,.,.,.,Someplace it really white outs big time , like @ the DeLong Mountain Transfer facility area / Kivalina or up on the slope or @ Cape Lisburne ......My boss spent over 3 days in the cab of an 8 because the wind came up and he couldn,t see the blade while building an ice road ,, Temps of 40-60 below with 50 - 115 mph winds ..,.Yes pretty much all the time @ work there is a cab to get in , but when a guy is out hunting it,s a different story sometimes ........,,,.Has anyone ever[ had ]to dig a snow cave ????

I've never HAD to dig a snow cave but I've slept in both a tent and a snowcave in sub-zero temperatures and the snowcave was handsdown warmer...especially when the wind is blowing. You just have to know how to build them correctly so that the cold air goes out and the "warmer" air stays in.

Gents
I have slept in both snow caves and HAD to put up emergency camp in a blizzard, and it is possible to do it as long as you know what to do and when to start doing it. Stop in time, or turn around in time! Snow caves are easy to make if you do it right and choose the spot correctly. But that is hard when you have zero visibility. Remember to build a cold-trap into the snow cave for a warmer experience. Cold air is denser than warm air, and then the cold air descends to the floor and is trapped there. Put your sleeping place close to the ceiling to harvest the maximum amount of heat. A snow cave for 2 persons can be made in around 2 hours with one showel. With a snow saw it is a little bit quicker.

A tent is faster than a cave, but the cave can be made more comfortable, and is also much warmer without any extra heating. On the other hand, you have to be able to read the snow and the terrain to be able to choose a good site.

Here, we use atleast 10-14 different words for snow according to its properties, and the Sami people probably have more than these as well. The snow have to be of a certain quality if it shall be possible to build a cave.

When working in construction it might not be advisable to use a mink fur due to oil stains, petrol contamination and so on. For trips where the risk of such contamination is low, I prefer fur as it is very warm and nice. For more physical work and with different chemicals, I would try to have multiple layers of wool, windbreakers and then a outer layer that is oil resistant/water resistant and can be shifted quickly if it gets soiled.
For example, I have had petrol/gasoline pouring over my waist when filling a snowmobile due to a overpressurized jerry can. Then the clothes loose all their insolation capacity and you have to shift it fast. When petrol contacts your skin, you might suffer instant frost bites. it removes all the protective fat on your skin and leads heat away fast, as well as it makes the skin dry and sick from poisoning. To avoid this from getting worse, I always carry a tube of white vaseline in the suit. It does miracles on cracks in the fingers, protects the nose and lips from frost cracks, it is a wonder to put on a hand that got a little gasoline on it to restore the fat and minimize heat transfer losses.

A good thread this, keep it coming!

Sincerely
Daniel

,.,..,.,/..Orienteering the snow cave or tent , being so important ,,,what is the best way to do it ???? Also ,what are the deminsions of a snow cave for 2 or 3 people ?????

What the best way to orientate a snow cave, or where to put the tent is always dictated by the conditions on the site, and it is hard to give any general advice without seeing the terrain.

IF it is a mountain/valley system with windblown snow that assembles in lee sides (culouirs?), then find a slope lower than 5 m (yd) high because of avalanche danger on snowdrifts higher than that.
Snow depth horizontally from thought entrance to ground at the valley wall, should be equal to (or longer than) the avalanche probe, ie 4 m, ideally without weak layers or loose snow. Make cave in top part of snowdrift, for 2 reasons. continued winddrift can block your original entry, and the around 8-10 m3 snow you are relocating needs to fall freely unless you want to move the snow several times. You should be able to dig through the ceiling to get out if needed.
remove overhang if it exists, it can fall down while excavating otherwise.
Make entry standing height and ca 75 cm wide (2 1/2 ft) to make it easy to use showel. Dig straight in towards valley wall.
Make ceiling like a up side down V (just like a normal tent) 3-4 m / yd deep.
Keep all walls at 10" thick to prevent cooling. 8" should be enough to insolate theoretically, though.
Keep a upside down U or V shape in ceiling since it is a self-reinforcing structure, just look at the roman aqueducts and old stone bridges.
Make benches on either side of entry ditch, 2,5 m long and around 1 m wide. Maintain sitting height on benches, and make benches low enough to allow feets touching floor when sitting up. some "overkill" for comfort is to make room for the calfs under the benches so they do not touch the snow...

Make a door by snow blocks that are allowed to "bake" snowblocks outside for 30 min - 1 hour. They will freeze solid after they are cut, making them easier to handle after 1 hour than directly when cut.

Make some extra blocks too, for reasons later.

Make ditch to door sloping down towards entry, thus creating a cold trap and improving ventilation.
Make some ventilation holes from outside with a ski pole, leave pole in hole to allow for improved ventilation if snowdrift closes hole under night.

Phase off all uneven edges to prevent dripping, make "cosy" niches for candles, or for the kitchen area. Have one ski-pole as ventilation there too.

Bring all equipment into cave, put backpacks at foot end of benches, leaving 2 m x 0,5m sleeping space / person or so. I use double foam insulating mattresses (ice fishing, or the ones you get on hockey games to sit on) to prevent from cooling from below. 1" of foam mattress is more than enough, or use some caribou/reindeer skins. Thermarest mattresses sucks here, usable only on foam mattress it is to darn cold to use alone since the air pockets do not insulate good enough.
One candle lights entire cave as snow reflects light good, also a good indication on oxygen level, but as long as the cave is properly made, there will be no lack of oxygen as the snow contains more than enough.

Now, when all things are inside, it is time to close the door by the snow blocks, put a showel inside to be able to dig out next morning. Skis can be placed at door to help put the blocks in place. Have extra snowblocks ready outside if door have to be re-made for some reason.
Bring one snowblock into the cave as a "midnight toilet" for creation of yellow snow without having to open cave again. Fill casseroles with water, ice or snow (in that order!) if cooking is actual in that case. It is always better to get ice or water than to melt snow. If only snow is available, stack several packed casseroles on top of eacother and heat them at the same time. snow is 90% air, so you will need 10 litres of snow to get 1 litre of water equivalent.... ice is 90% water equivalent, while water, is well, water....

If you are staying several nights in the same place, a proper latrine area is made to avoid getting yellow snow in the coffee...
It is no need to have it look like a kennel with yellow spots all over the place...
Then of course the door is made more rigid and easy to open, more time is spent in a kitchen area and so on...

I think that kind of snow cave is the most common one, and the easiest to do too.


Pffffft, thats another long one, hope it was understandable...

Sincerely
Daniel

Ps, for the moment it is not cold here, it was raining today.... Sure made all roads slippery... Ds.

Good topic Gumboot,

If possible, build your cave on a slight slope. That is, tunnel uphill towards the sleeping chamber. By FAR the greatest amount of labor is in clearing the debis, not the digging, and a slope lets it fall free and also acts as a cold air sump. The other big consideration is the wind and protecting the enterence from drifting in too badly.

If you have 2 people one can dig while the other clears. A small sled can come in handy to lay in while you dig so the debris falls into it. Try to minimize moving the same snow twice! I punch head and arm holes in a large garbage bag to wear while tunneling to help stay dry and have also used a trash bag full of corn snow as a door plug in rotten snow.

If you're going to be there a while and not in a hurry, I've dug a 3-4 foot high door into a drift(in order to make excavating the interior easier), then cut blocks to seal in off and build an enterence tunnel.

I lived in one almost a week in -35 and wind in delta and it stayed a nice silent +25 inside. The only time I HAD to build one was years ago in CO near Leadville, when I got caught by an approaching storm on a climb. I figured it was an hour out and I was 8 hours from my truck, so I used my coffee cup and ice axe to dig in for the night uneventfully.

This is a fun skill to practice in warm spring weather when the daylight kicks in, and kids absolutely love it. If there is good snow I sometimes take an aluminum shove camping instead of a tent and leave a few hours for digging. You never know when it could come in handy.

Thanks for the info Huglu!

Bob

....Wow ,., More work ,., But , honestly , you may have just saved my life ,, or someone elses....I can invision it ,, The walls only need be 10" thick,., I would have thot 2 feet or more .... .,Does the door close off the cold sink also ???

Actually you don't need to worry about it, wear shorts and a T-shirt. Al Gore says it's all melting away, enjoy the summer. By the way, why is it white and cold here? I want some global warming.

So, what about the igloo? Would it be more suitable in areas that are flatter? Would it be more work to build one than an ice cave?

Namibiahunter

......I was wondering that too but since every one DS , thinks everyone in Alaska lives in an [ igloo ] I didn,t even want to bring the subject up .... But I,m glad you did ..Hopefully we will get some replies of knowledge ...I,ve never actually sen an igloo.,.

An ice cave is less work as long as your someplace that you can build one.

An igloo might or might not stay together depending on the quality of snow.

In Alaska, the natives (Inupiat, Yupik) never really made igloos unless in time of emergency. The lived in semi-subterrainian huts. The natives that made igloos are (from what I've heard) located more in Northeastern Canada. Anyone have definite knowledge to add?

The problem with an igloo is that unless you build a "cold well" the cold air doesn't have anywhere to go...it just sits on the floor where you are sleeping. I've built an igloo type shelter before though, but not using blocks. I just piled up a bunch of snow into a huge mound and let it cure for a few hours and then dug it out. I didn't sleep in it, it was more for experimentation than anything.

The downside to an igloo is that you have to wait for the blocks to cure and a snowcave you don't. If you needed a shelter and you didn't have enough snow to build a cave, an igloo type shelter would probably be a good alternative.

On another note, it finally feels like winter is setting in. I just went out with a buddy looking for moose (subsistence hunt) and the lake (Lake Iliama) is starting to freeze up. It's about -2 degrees right now. We saw some tracks from yesterday of a bull and also fresh wolverine tracks.

Medium is right.

Igloos are of the Inuit people not the Inupiat, Upiq, or Aleut.

The Thule people of Greenland don't build igloos either.

As a side note to my last post, I only mentioned the Yupik (Bering Sea Native Groups)and Inupiat (North Slope Native Groups) because those are groups that are considered Eskimos and live in the regions were the fabled igloos would have been. I knew that the Aleut, Alutiiq, Athabascan, Tliglit, Haida, and Tsimshian Native groups were not a possibility for being builders of igloos because of geographic location. (I have lived in an Alutiiq village before and currently live in a Dena'ina Athabascan village)

Also, I looked up in some of my books and both the Yupik and Inupiat did live in both sub-terranian and semi-subterranian dwellings built from driftwood, whalebone, and sod/tundra. I also read that for emergency shelter, they often turned their umiaks (skin covered boats) upside down for emergency shelters.