During the 70's,I lived in the bush between circle and eagle.I used a 30/06 for everything.Since then,I've become somewhat of a bigbore enthusiast.Due to financial hardship,I've sold off many of my guns but still have a couple of 458 win mag rifles.

I plan on returning to alaska in the near future which brings me up to my question.I would like to use the 458 win for big game in alaska and would like some feedback from those who have used it there.

What loads,bullets and results have you had?Good or bad results with the hornady 350gr bullet?etc,etc.Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks,raym

Mr. ray m,
If you would not mind my asking, what will you be hunting?
My ol' huntin' partner uses the .458 extensively and enjoys it immensely. He also does a lot of hand loading for specific purposes.

We have -42 degrees below 0 this morning and my friend's son has -50 at his place. Remember those days?
Best Wishes

Windwalker,

Moose,grizzly,caribou.....I only use handloads.....Yes,I remember those days.

I,m a pretty big fan of the 458 Win Mag..I,ve shot alot of game with the caliber and it works great with as little or less meat loss than even the 30/30 when used with the right load...I,ve shot deer with my Ruger from offhand with express sights at close to 200 yrds .The load I used was a 500 gr factory Fedral sp .. The 458 is very comforting to have in hand when in close bear country.....I see GS custom has a 400 gr HV style bullet that will easily beat 2400 fps..... There are plenty of guides who comfortably rely on their 458,s .. ,,.I don,t lower the velocity intentionally,,,,,,The 300gr Barnes X @ 2700 fps is a good load to 300 yrds and when it hits its a DRT load. It is definatly a neck and head shot load on deer tho...The 300 gr remington hollow point bullets are execellent blasting bullets..As are the 350 gr Berry,s plated .I,m seriously considering lightening up my summer 458 ..to around 7.5 lbs.....I have had the 350 gr Hornady bullet break up on spike bucks ...The 350 gr Speer bullet I have used alot and it never let me down.... By golly is it snowing out...nearly 3 feet in the last 24 hrs..

That time of year, eh, Gumboot? Just cold and windy up here on Afognak. Ditto on the 350 grainers. I played with them in a Marlin and while the Hornady RN was just right, the Speer seemed a little tough.

ray m,

I carried a .450 Ackley this season, stuffed with 450gr TSX's @ 2400. Shot three blacktails with them and helped finish a buddy's elk. Two of the deer were shot from above in the back and down through the offside shoulder and the other was across the spine broadside (oops, a little high). The elk was right across the boilerroom at 250. Didn't recover any of the slugs. They were a bit on the destructive side for meat hunting but not unreasonably so. I think the lack of super speed helps tone down the amount of blown meat.

The 450s might be a little longer than optimal in the Winnie but the lighter monos might be the cat's meow. I don't see where we need the heavyweights for our game like you would an elephant. A little flatter trajectory is handy when you've got nice buck across a basin too.

As long as you don't run across a big bear while loaded with frangible lightweights meant for original .45-70 speeds, I'd think you'd be fine with just about any combo since the Winnie has so much horsepower to begin with anyway.

PWS

,,,,,,For body shots on deer I like the 400-500 gr bullets @ 2150.... I have never recoverd an X bullet from game, and have seen evidence that they all begin expanding .. ,,Some really expand .... The 400 gr Kodiak , round nose is great all around .. @ 2400 fps , they expand pretty large but stay together well..I can,t figure out why Barnes stopped makeing the 400 gr X... They should have dropped the 350 gr ..IMO ..I,ve shot deer thru the heart with the 500 and 510 gr sp bullets and both halves or the top or bottom half was fine to eat...A shot behind the shoulder and under the spine will get the top of the lungs and the deer usually drops at the shot and has bled out by the time I get to them... Meat loss,, 1 lb or less .. I would prefer to need to be careful of my shot on edible game and not be concerned about getting a perfact shot on bears.... The 300 gr XFB screamin along real fast makes a big hole thru big animals...and it brings the recoil down to 375 levels.... The 350 gr X bullet is a good compromise but I would prefer the 400 gr..Just being fickle I suppose..... I had developed a load for my wife with a 300 X @ 2500 fps ...She could run the rifle if she needed to with that load and it was still a good killer.....I wouldn,t go over stressing the fragil bullets on game ,, Never know when you might need the strength of a good bullet..

ray m,

When I lived in Alaska I used the 458 on moose and caribou with good results. I used the 350X and with a max load of IMR 4198 I got 2550 fps which flattened out the trajectory quite a bit. Unless you are using the 458 for bears exclusively I think the 500gr bullet is not necessary for AK.

Mark

Just out of curiosity, what advantage do you all see in shooting a 458 over lets say a 338 or a 300 for Alaskan game.
Personally, (even though I have never hunted Alaska) I would think a 458 would only make sense when a large brown bear is on the menu.

Thanks, KC

KC,

As I stated in my opening of the thread,I've had Alaskan experience but not with a 458 win mag.My interest in big bores began afterward.

Truth be known,there were times when I would've gladly welcomed more power if it had been available to me.

Without getting into a debate about slow big bore vs fast small bore,I will just say that each can get the job done.However,if you'll look at the popularity of the 45/70 and just realize that the 458 win uses the same diameter bullet but uses more muscle in it's delivery,it should be pretty easy to understand.

Actually,I've always thought that it's African image has held it's popularity down more than anything.

KC,
For me the attraction to the big bores is the "neato!" factor. Iused a 7x57 0n one of the larger moose I've taken and a 30-06 0n the largest. This last fall I used a .375 with 300g bullets and thought that was really neato, but hardly required.
A few years back I was lucky enough to take a 9'9" bear with a .338 and it hit him like a sledge. I can't see how a .375 or larger would have made any difference. Having said that, I was thinking that a mark x action I picked up recently would make a great 416 Taylor. Go figger.

;;;;;I agree .There is a great amount that can be done with the 458 .... I,ve always wondered why so many people hunt with muzzel loaders and hund guns when hunting with an express sighted large bore is so rewarding..... I wonder how many people who say the 458 is to big for all Alaskan game , go to the grocery store in their 3/4 ton pick up truck .... Or access their hunting with a jet pump or air boat or modern 4 wheelers in stead of canoes , foot , or pack dogs / horses...If a person likes tracking wounded ,possibly fatally animals then they should stay with the 30 cals and under .. But if you enjoy Bang Flops the 458 is just the ticket...I kind of get carried away about 3 primary calibera 375 ,, 416 and 458 ....But if I could only have one rifle it would be a 458 Win Mag...

KC

The 458 has a huge advantage over lesser calibers at close range. It is not an all around caliber by any means but by using lighter premium bullets you can increase the versatility of this round. In my mind the 338 in a light rifle is the best all around Alaska round.

P.S. Scott King is one of the most successful trophy moose hunter I ever met but he loves his pee shooters so be suspect of his caliber selections.

Mark

For whatever it's worth,the vast majority of game shots I've made have been within 150 yards or so and a great many have been within half that.For me at least,in the terrain that I've normally hunted in,a close range caliber was seldom a problem.

KC,

Mark Young's uncalled for slight regarding my "pee shooters" stems from moose antler envy.

Ok,........sorry,.......I tried to come up with a funny and sarcastic reply but thats the best I could do. I know, lame.

Scott King is absolutely right but he still is a pea shooter weenie and from what he has said to me in confidence I would suspect he is a hom------. That does not mean he is not a great slayer of moose and other beasties of the North.

Mark

"I would suspect he is a hom------."



Projecting,

I like the 458 and my 416 rem mags in the tent at night .I like them in the wooded areas where you might not get but one shot.The 458 is an awesome caliber.Its a little short ranged for the tundra but with the right bullets it can ot better for the 458.I would make 350 yards shots no problem.I think the 400 and 350 gr bullets such as Swift and x bullets would be awesome on moose and caribou and bears.I would not run the 45-70 bullets super speed in the 458 due to blow ups.There is nothing wrong with a 458 in Alaska.I find my self using my 338-378 weatherys more than my 338 win mag also in the open areas.I like the 458 and 416 when a long shot is 30 feet and you only have one shot at something that will bite you back.

I know some of this is a well traveled trail but the 400 gr GS Custom HV bullet should work well at flattening out the 458 win mag .. Most of them will be able to push them @ 2400 fps and they will do quite alot to flatten out the trajectory....The 300 gr Barnes XFB is a great all around bullet ....sighted on @ 200 yrds it is around a foot low at 300 yards when launched @ 2700 fps which every 458 Win will do ......The biggest challenge with the 458 win mag is laying in a large enough supply of the same bullet... I had my current 416 Rem built because I was temp. unable to get any 300 gr XFB bullets for all my 458,s...And it , the 416 Rem 300 gr X @ 2850 fps plus is flat enough shooting for 400 yrs shots ......It is hard to find a better open country rifle than a 338/378 tho ....It,s pretty popular with Sitka goat hunters....

Thanks for the replies.
Someday I'll travel north and do some first hand research.

I appreciate the responses.My preference is to stick to a scoped 30/06 for shots beyond 200 yards.My desire to carry at least one of my 458 win rifles is to use it primarily where shots will normally be close and moose will be the game.Bear,is of course,always a possibility.

I've worked up a fairly accurate load with the hornady 350 gr rnsp and since I've not used this on game,I'll concede to those who have.I've noticed that the premium bullets (barnes,etc)are very much in evidence among the responses.I prefer to work up a load with a bullet that I can lay up a good supply of.I have a decent supply of hornady 500 gr rnsp but will agree that it's more bullet than needed under most conditions.

I noticed that the speer 350 gr sp is mentioned favorably as being tougher than the hornady bullet of that weight and if I can get confirmation of that,I might well consider stocking up on it.A speer 350 gr sp at 2400 fps might be what I'm looking for.Any comments?

Thanks,
ray

Hi ray m ;;Yes , to the 350 speer bullet It can go zipping out of a 458 W M at 2550 fps plus ..........The Speer # 12 manual lists 86 grains of AAC 2230 as the MAX. load and shows a velocity of 2590 fps.,,,,,,,In my rifle , thats what it did .....Also Accurate # 2015 br gives that bullet a velocity of 2560 with a 77 grain MAX. load....................The 458Win mag pushes bullets at a simular speed that the 416 Rem mag does with the same recoil.........I would give the X bullets a good try ............He doesn,t go for the light bullets much in the 458 but 458 Win ...........Has much more experience than I with this cartridge....................GS Custom from South Africa has made a 310 gr. 458 bullet.....I hope by fall to try some in my win mag and 460 Whby............It is about as flat shooting as a .458 bullet can get ...........And the reports I saw was {{ Its like they got hit by a telephone pole }} ,.,.,.,.,Upside down dead ... ,.,.,.,The cartridge just brings a smile to my face when it behaves like that .. Which it does with great regularity.........

Thanks for the response.I'm only concerned with ranges up to about 200 yards max.Most rounds offer trajectory that's good enough for that on big game.

I'm primarily asking about "bullet performance" among the more easily obtainable factory bullets "at 458 win mag velocities".For instance,I've not heard a clear description of how well the speer 350 gr bullet performs on game when driven at the speed of 2400-2500 fps.Speer claims that this bullet was made with the 458 win (not the 45/70)in mind.Field,game experience,bullet break up,complete penetration,etc,with more easily obtainable factory bullets is mainly what I'm looking for.Actual performance on moose and bear.Thanks again.

ray

Ray, My experiences with the 350 Speer is that it is a fairly tough 45-70 bullet but does not hold together well enough for really big game at the 458 velocities you are asking about.

Phil,

Thanks for your input.The more attainable factory bullets in 458 diameter seem to be better suited for the 45/70.The obvious exception is the 500 gr bullets.I thought there might be decent results to be expected from the hornady 350 gr rnsp or the speer 350 gr sp but apparently not.

It's beginning to look as though the premium bullet may be the only way to go on this one.

Critters you actually need a 458 for generally deserve premium bullets.

Phil,

I don't believe a 458 win is actually NEEDED in Alaska.Before I go back,I have two choices.Either sell my two remaining big bores or take them and get some use out of them.I'm inclined to go with the latter.

I've killed several moose and bear with a 30/06 but that was all I had.There were several occasions that I can remember very well when I would've welcomed a 458 win in my hands.In either case,"you dance with the one who brung ya".

I have had a .458 for over 20 years now and still have not used it in Alaska.
I've only hunted with 500 gr. hornady's both soft point and solids. I was impressed with the knock down abilety of them in Africa.
I'll have to give my old .458 a try next time I shoot a bear or moose.

Mr. ray m,
The ice bridge is still holding and was able to get over to visit my ol' huntin' partner. He used to be a registered guide and used the .458 to some extent.
He tried the Hornady 350gr but encountered two potential problems:
He felt that as fast as he was able to safely drive the 350gr that there might be a problem with penetration due to expansion. Of course the simple solution would be to drop velocity a bit but he was interested in as flat a trajectory as possible, under the circumstances.

He further stated the loaded round was a little short for reliable feeding in his model 77 Ruger (GASP!). His was an older model that did not have the controlled round feeding. When rounds were cycled rapidly, the round to be fed would sometimes jump out of the magazine and jam the weapon. Not something he wanted to happen when following up on a client wounded Grizz. Subsequently, he shot only the 500gr bullets.
This unique situation should not be a problem with the newer controlled feed model.
The preceding info is provided as food for thought and based on his personal experience.
Good luck with your hunting.
Best Wishes

Windwalker,

My win 70 feeds the 350 hornady load fine.Downloading to 45/70 levels is always an option but one I'm not enthused about.

Perhaps I'll lay in a small stock of premium bullets or perhaps one will become,for the most part,a cabin/camp/tent gun in which case,the hornady 500 gr soft points I have a supply of will do just fine.

Even downloaded the 350's in the 458 are a potent load

Phil,

Based on your observations,do you think that the Speer 350 gr sp might hold it's integrity and penetrate well if loaded to around 2200 fps????

Speer claims that this bullet was made with the 458 win in mind.

I tested most of the light (under 400 gr) 458 bullets one fall by firing them into all the meat scraps after my moose season. Around 2200fps the speer bullets were still pretty explosive and generally lost their jackets. they should be absolutley devastating on deer and black bear sized game but if you plan on using them on larger game I would load them down to around 2000-2100 fps.
The 300 gr Barnes X bullets - even at 2500fps - managed to hold together and looked like flying ashtrays.

Hello Phil

We are headed to Alaska for moose. How effective would a 460gr cast Performance bullet @ 1750-1800fps be on moose and grizzly and at what range would you limit it too? I much rather carry my 1895 guide gun than a 11.5lbs 375H&H.

Thank you
Mark

Phil,

That was very helpful.Thanks!

It looks as though I'll be using premium bullets for this caliber (with the exception of the hornady 500 gr sp).It appears that the factory bullets of 400 gr and under are far better suited to the 45/70 despite what the makers claim.I'll use them only for practice.

Thanks to everyone for their response.

ray

When I had a 458 I used some of the Barnes X bullets and they shot wonderfully. I did not kill anything with it but they were much easier on the sholder than the 510 factory rounds. I used the 400 grain bullets and they were very accurate too. Jim

A hard cast 460 gr 45 caliber bullet @ 1800fps should be excellent for both moose and grizzly at ranges under 150 yards - which is as far as they should be shot with anything.

This brings up a good question for me.
My .458 will shoot a 500 gr, jacketed very well(under 1 inch @ 100. It will not stabilize a hard cast over 350 gr.
I have only hunted with the honady's but played around with quite a few hard cast on the range. All over the papper with all the lead bullets except a 350gr. gc @ 2300 fps. It has a 1 in 22 twist. Any ideas?

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
A hard cast 460 gr 45 caliber bullet @ 1800fps should be excellent for both moose and grizzly at ranges under 150 yards - which is as far as they should be shot with anything.

Not trying to stir anything up but this is not a great deal different than my using the 500 gr bullet.A hard cast 460 will act as a solid (little or no expansion) and most of my game in Alaska was taken well within 150 yards (my choice of terrain).

I can tell you that the most accurate loads to date in my rifles has been with the 500 gr hornady and I've done a lot of load tinkering.I've always leaned towards heavy for caliber bullets.Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

The 500 gr bullet has always been the 458's most popular bullet weight and if I had to pick just one that would be it . I was only responding to Coloradoyaler's question, not offering my recommendation.

Phil,

I was not taking a snide shot at you.I was merely thinking out loud.If push came to shove and I could only take one rifle,it would still be a 30/06.It served me then and it can serve me now.

The"gun enthusiast"in me is what inspires my query.

But I will take one of my 458s with me simply because I want to and I'm a stubborn old coot.