What are your thoughts on hunting Brown Bear with a handgun. I want to hunt coastal bears once in my lifetime and would love to do it with a handgun; not "backup" weapon, "primary" weapon. I would use a cartridge big enough to get the job done and I would not want my guide to shoot my bear for me with his rifle because he didn't have confidence with my choice of weapon.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Darrell

I'd go with either:

F.A. 454 Casull
D.W. 445 SuperMag

300-320 gr Hardcast with a big, wide meplat. 1,250 to 1,300 fps should be adequate.

And I'm assuming you are going with a wheelgun and not a single shot. If you were using a single shot, I'd do something a bit different.


<<MM>>

My choice would be a Smith & Wesson revolver in 500 S&W Magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
What are your thoughts on hunting Brown Bear with a handgun. I want to hunt coastal bears once in my lifetime and would love to do it with a handgun; not "backup" weapon, "primary" weapon. I would use a cartridge big enough to get the job done and I would not want my guide to shoot my bear for me with his rifle because he didn't have confidence with my choice of weapon.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Darrell

300g or better, hard cast in 44mag & up

.....500 S&W 400-500gr bullet @ 1400 fps or more .. And the ability to keep all shots in a 6" circle @ 50 yrds ............You can kill bears with alot smaller pistols .. but if you want to dump the bear and you want a big bear that is the best there is .........This fall a friend of mine here killed a bear this year with his 500 S&W with the 400 gr Sierra bullets from the 4" version ........3 shots .......The bear was coming for him when he first fired ........

quote:

And I'm assuming you are going with a wheelgun and not a single shot. If you were using a single shot, I'd do something a bit different.

I'm undecided at this point. I like the single shot option because you don't lose any power from the cylinder gap like you do on a revolver. Plus you can chamber an Encore for some very potent cartridges and develp a lot of velocity/energy in a 16"-17" barrel (I was considering a .375 Ruger in a 16" barrel with a muzzle brake).

However, the .454 Casull, .445 Supermag, and .500 S&W revolver option would provide several quick follow up shots and that is attractive too.

TC Encore chambered for SW460 mag loaded with cast performance 395gr bullets or some of the calibers & loads from http://www.sskindustries.com.

scr83jp,

As we speak, Bullberry is building me a 12" (with Holland brake) 460 S&W Encore barrel. I thought that this might be a little on the "light" side. Another idea that I had was to carry this .460 Encore and then start unloading a big-bore revolver!

Again, I don't want to spend $15,000 on a hunt and get into a mess. I had a .375 H&H built on a stainless Model 70 "Classic" action for this purpose before I got into this handgun hunting thing about five years ago.

Good suggestions guys...keep 'em coming.

Darrell

I can not think of a finer revolver than the S&W 460 to hunt with anywhere in the USA. But if I were going strickly for big bears I would use one of my 500's.
Most likely I would load up some 400 or 440 grain hard cast bullets and go from there. I would not use a scope as I would want to shoot under 50 yards. Ultradot would be perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
scr83jp,

As we speak, Bullberry is building me a 12" (with Holland brake) 460 S&W Encore barrel. I thought that this might be a little on the "light" side. Another idea that I had was to carry this .460 Encore and then start unloading a big-bore revolver!

Again, I don't want to spend $15,000 on a hunt and get into a mess. I had a .375 H&H built on a stainless Model 70 "Classic" action for this purpose before I got into this handgun hunting thing about five years ago.

Good suggestions guys...keep 'em coming.

Darrell

I had Bullberry make me a 20" Encore rifle barrel chambered for 454 casull after an unpleasant experience touching off a few Win Partition Gold 260 gr cartridges in my 15 inch encore pistol barrel took the advice of a female foxridge outfitters tech and had a muzzle tamer installed,that was a complete waste of money.I sent the 20" back to be rechambered in SW 460mag much more comfortable shooting.I fired a few 260gr jacketed flat point Magtech 454 casull cartridges thru the rifle barrel that ammo has a wallop.

Then, there's the Freedom Arms route. I'd take my .475Linebaugh in a minute. I haven't tried the .500 they have but it looks promising. For big brownies, I'd want to have a large bore repeater. I'd also hunt them with my .510GNR, .475 Linebaugh Bisley, and .500Linebaugh Bisley.

I would definitely go for it. Very doable with the right gun/hunter and back up.

For those who have hunted them, how agreeable would a guide be to let their client hunt with a handgun? I assume that people hunt brown bears with bows/arrows every year. I would feel safer with a large bore handgun in my hand than a sharp stick.

Is it standard operating procedure for the guide to always shoot after the client shoots; even with a rifle? Or does it really depend on the circumstances?

....I would say generally that if it looks like the client is holding his own well,,, the guide won,t shoot .............But to me its kind of [not to be offensive ]but egotistically stupid to on purpose hinder your ability for a successful hunt by trying to make a stunt out of it ..........It doesn,t sound from your posts that you have killed enough brown bear up close to be bored with the proceedure yet .,. so why use a pistol .........If you want excitement ,,Bring a 375 H&H or equivelent rifle with a detachable scope and good express sights and sneak up to within 15 feet of your bear , bring one of those squeeker calls with you and @ 15 feet squeek it a few times before you shoot .....make sure you stand up full height befor you do .......Just imagine yourself standing in plain view of a trophy brown bear that you are trying to get to come running in your direction .......do you really want just a pistol in your mit right then or would you rather have a very proven rifle .......Why take a chance on wounding and looseing a bear just to say you shot it with a pistol ....There is just so much involved with brown bear hunting .,.,.......................JMHO...

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
For those who have hunted them, how agreeable would a guide be to let their client hunt with a handgun? I assume that people hunt brown bears with bows/arrows every year. I would feel safer with a large bore handgun in my hand than a sharp stick.

Is it standard operating procedure for the guide to always shoot after the client shoots; even with a rifle? Or does it really depend on the circumstances?

Exactly. And, what are the laws in Alaska regarding hunting Browns with a pistol? If I were a guide, I would have something to say about using a handgun, even if it was legal.

Don

quote:

It doesn,t sound from your posts that you have killed enough brown bear up close to be bored with the proceedure yet .,. so why use a pistol .........

Because I intend to do it only once in my lifetime. Why do people hunt bears with bows & arrows? Why do people hunt them with muzzleloaders? Ego? I don't think so, I think that its because they enjoy bowhunting and blackpowder hunting.

I feel like my personality is the opposite of what you are suggesting. Around here, we hunt deer, wild boar, and black bear. A LONG shot is going to be 100 yards becuase of the terrain. Yet a lot of the "egos" around here feel that they have to hunt with a .300 RUM. Do you need this much horsepower for a 100 yard shot on a deer, bear, or boar? Me thinks not.

quote:

If you want excitement ,,Bring a 375 H&H or equivelent rifle with a detachable scope and good express sights and sneak up to within 15 feet of your bear , bring one of those squeeker calls with you and @ 15 feet squeek it a few times before you shoot .....make sure you stand up full height befor you do .......Just imagine yourself standing in plain view of a trophy brown bear that you are trying to get to come running in your direction .......

Now I don't mean to be offensive either, but to me that sounds very foolish. I would rather shoot a bear at 100 yards (or less) who didn't know that I was anywhere around with a pistol of appropriate size than to provoke one and have to defend myself at 15 feet with any gun.

quote:

Why take a chance on wounding and looseing a bear just to say you shot it with a pistol

Why do you think that I'm taking an unnecessary chance with a pistol? Do you feel that they have inadequate power or do you feel that they are inaccurate.

I haven't selected what weapon I will use on my brown bear hunt. Rest assured it will not be a peashooter. I would use a handgun that equalled or exceeded the muzzle energy of a 30-06 rifle. I shoot literally thousands of rounds a year through my single shot handguns and I'm very confident in them. For those who aren't familiar with them, they are amazed at how accurate they are. Here are some 100 yard groups with my custom 17" .308 Encore:



Those one-holers on the right are 150 grain Sierra match bullets, the 1" groups on the left are with 165 grain Hornady's. Very adequate accuracy in my opinion. I feel confident with this gun to 300 yards on elk-sized game or smaller. I used it to take this Colorado elk earlier in the year at about 100 yards. It dropped in its tracks from a 150 grain Accubond at 2700 fps.


If I went with an Encore platform I would certainly use a larger bore for brown bear. Again, I think that the .375 Ruger with a muzzle brake would be perfect. I would also consider a .338 Win Mag or a .375 H&H, but I don't like the belted mags in the Encore becuase of the extraction system. Also, I would only have one good shot. I really do like the advantage of having multiple shots with a large-bore revolver when shooting animals with a half-ton of claws and teeth.

What is the average distance for shot opportunities on brown bears? I would like to be 100 yards or less. Is that realistic?

Good discussion...thanks for sharing your thoughts.

i like the BFR in 45/70

........Nice elk .. where did you hit it ........I would say the chances of you dumping a brn bear with one shot ....and I mean dumping not them running off and it takeing some time to find them .....With one shot ......almost nil with a small caliber like that ...........Unless you brain it and then the skull can,t be measured very well ........................................Even with a 416 sometimes times it takes 2 shots ...........

I tote a 454 Ruger but hope I never have to use it for bears.I have had friends shoot only 7 foot grizzleys 6 times with 338s .I have one friend that shot a griz at 7 yards with a bow and it dropped in 50 feet the other way.I usually have a 416 rem mag as my tent gun.I think the 375 jdj with a good bullet might be the ticket if your a good shot.I tore up my older contender so I dont trust it in it.A g2 or encore would be better.I would use 270 gr hornady bullets as JD Jones did.Call SSK and ask for JD Jones he will set you up.I have a carbine 375 jdj but in would be a bear to shoot in a pistol.I trust my 416 rem mags on bears but carry my 454s fishing and bird hunting just in case.

I would go to Gary Reeders website and check out what he has available that you might like. I would use my 416GNR Encore, with a 14" bull barrel(incl. a 2" brake) with 400gr Partitions@1900fps and have my reeder built 500 Linebaugh /w a 5" bbl in a crossdraw holster loaded with 435gr hard cast running at 1350fps just in case. That 416GNR is awesome medicine for anything big and bad. I could also take my 14" bbl 378GNR too without reservation as that one would do quite nicely as well. A .375 300gr Partition@ 2200fps is serious medicine too. Nothing wrong with wanting to use a handgun for nasty critters so long as you are proficient with them...and as long as you are I doubt you would find it difficult to find a guide to assist you in your dream hunt.

Make sure that whatever you decide on you save the last one for yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I would go to Gary Reeders website and check out what he has available that you might like. I would use my 416GNR Encore, with a 14" bull barrel(incl. a 2" brake) with 400gr Partitions@1900fps and have my reeder built 500 Linebaugh /w a 5" bbl in a crossdraw holster loaded with 435gr hard cast running at 1350fps just in case. That 416GNR is awesome medicine for anything big and bad. I could also take my 14" bbl 378GNR too without reservation as that one would do quite nicely as well. A .375 300gr Partition@ 2200fps is serious medicine too. Nothing wrong with wanting to use a handgun for nasty critters so long as you are proficient with them...and as long as you are I doubt you would find it difficult to find a guide to assist you in your dream hunt.

--------------------------------With those quoted balistics I would say You bet .,. but as you say [provideing the hunter can quickley place his shots ,,, and knows the range limitations ..................................But I still think anyone is better off with a good rifle ...in a large caliber ................

quote:

Make sure that whatever you decide on you save the last one for yourself.

Yeah, I know and make sure the front sight is removed also...that way when the bear shoves the pistol up your ...

Hey, nobody answered this question: "Is a 100 yard shot (or less) a realistic expectation for brown bear?"

Thanks,

X

I would use the S&W 500 with a 400 gr bullet going 1620 FPS. I would want to shoot inside
of 100 yds. Heart Shot.

I have a buddy that shot his 8 ft. Browny three times with a 7mm Rem as it came at him, it was still coming with purpose and when he had expended his shells, he shot it three times with his .44 Mag pistol. It stopped at 6 steps still trying to paw the ground to reach him when it died. After he cleaned his pants and when he skinned the Bear, none of the .44's penetrated past the skin and fat. When I hunt them it will be with a Big rifle. Good shooting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by x-caliber:

Hey, nobody answered this question: "Is a 100 yard shot (or less) a realistic expectation for brown bear?"

Thanks,

--------------------------------------------Sorry ;;;;I did answer it but that large post dissapeared into cyber space ................I would say that you may see your bear @ 15 yrds or 350 yrds and that may be the only bear you see ....If you check the Brn Bear hunt postings you will find alot of different situations where bears are taken or not .........I would say it was unrealistic to require a bear to be close unless you are willing to pass up some Execellent opportunities ...........There is lots of talk about stalking but sometimes there is a river or canyon ,ect,ect,ect between you and your trophy .......I,ve seen weather roll in and reduce visiability to 40 or 50 feet ......2 years ago I shot a deer @ more than 400 yrds and before I could climb,clamber and crawl to where it was ,,it snowed 3" and @ times visability was mayby 30 feet .......To limit yourself to 100 yrds ,[ and understand I,m alot more into shooting bears @ 30 feet or so ,,,,,] Makes something that may be very succesful but still the max you can endure and makeing it impossible ...........The beautiful nice easy area you shot your elk in is deffinately not the norm here ,,,,Unless you are in the Matanuska Valley .........

Would not use a pistol. Most people have never stood beside a Brown Bear, let alone one that is mad...a 375 H&H would be what I would take.
Maybe even a 416 Rigby...

While I have no doubt that a 44 mag with the proper bullet will kill a brown bear, I would use my 475 Freedom Arms.

There would be nothing wrong with a 454 either.

I have shot the 454 and the 475 side by side.

If you can handle the recoil from one you can handle the other.

.......Thanks 450#2 ....I have shot a # of Casull,s in 454 and didn,t think they were too much at all ....I always thot the 475 would be something of a man killer to shoot .....What load /gun combo do you use in the 475

Thanks for all of your suggestions guys. I made my mind up finally. I ordered a 17" (including brake) .376 Steyr barrel for my Encore from Match Grade Machine (MGM) in St. George Utah. I should be able to push 260 grain Partitions to 2300-2400 fps.

I also won a gunbroker auction for an 8 3/8" 500 S&W which I will take along too, but the .376 Steyr will be the primary gun. Now I have about 18 months to build confidence in the gun unless I get lucky and get to go this fall.

Thanks again,

Darrell

I use this one. It works pretty good but It is a bitch to carry.

well, here's what i'd do, and my goal has been to bowhunt grizz, and i've bowhunted alot of areas with many bears and needed to have something on my hip that'd do the job, after much much research here's my take.

1) you aren't going to SHOCK a bear down period, so.........go .41 and up.
keep following if you think the .41 is too small.

2) use hardcasts or punch bullets from grizzly, buffalo bore, corbons, or garretts or reload your own.

3) make a committment to becoming really good, this will take an honest eval of recoil level tolerance. what you can tolerate changes when you committ to hitting 10 inch gongs at 200 yards vs. hitting a paper target at 25.

4) remember on anything larger than a deer the only soft point i'd ever consider are the freedom arms jsp's. other than that it doesn't surprise me people found .44's not penetrating, soft points are for whitetails. with bears a good hardcast load will exit the back of the bear.


a .500 440 grain at 1650 fps doesn't offer anything the same load at 1300 fps won't offer as far as penetration on a bear charge. you gotta be prepared to stop a charge by hitting the cns, brain, spine, or at least breaking bone and busting shoulders. any caliber will do with the .41 only suitable with the >250 gr hardcasts. these will many times penetrate better than .44 mags. .44 mag garretts will out penetrate 7mm mags and 338's.

i myself have all the above and my favorites are the .454 casulls. i reload so i get the great trajectory if i want, and i get massive penetrating >300 grain up to 405 gr bullets for penetration. i can also shoot easy shooting 45 colt level loads.

the main advantage this has over a 460 or 500 is it comes in a carryable package. i like a smaller revolver on my hip than the big smiths or huge bfrs. if you don't mind the above applies to the big smiths and due to versatility i prefer the 460.

......Trademark,,,, What is the biggest thing you have shot with your pistols ........A 338 Win mag w/ 210-250 monometal expanding bullet will usually exit brown bear and moose .......Velocity does help any bullet penetrate.........You will not get lengthwise exits on brown bear with a handgun ....About 3 feet is above average ...And that with modern high tech cast ,tempered .WFN LFN, designs .......I wish I could intice a friend of mine to reply as he got into it with a good size bear at night this fall and the only problem he had with his 500 S&W 4" was the muzzle flash kind of ruined his night vision........As he said to me ,, there is no replacement for width of the bullet ............................................................................................................X cal. Those ballistics sound good for the 376 ....Simular to the 9.3x74 R which is a good round ....What caliber is the 8 3/8 Smith ....???????????

What a bunch of sissies.

A sawed off pool cue is all you really need, as long as you hit 'em right. Use a Red Ryder BB gun to shoot 'em in the ass three or four times, just to get 'em headed your way, and clip 'em between the ears with the pool cue when they get right up close. Saves a whole lot of packing, and you don't have any holes in the hide.

Damn greenhorns. Gotta teach 'em everything.

Gumboot,

I'm getting my estimates on the Steyr velocity from the following writeup on the .376 Steyr in pistol format:.376 Steyr Article

The 8 3/8" gun I referred to in my post above is a 500 S&W revolver. I'll edit my post to reflect that. Thanks for pointing out the fact that I ommitted the caliber.

X

largest thing shot with my handgun is a bull on my cousin's ranch, second largest was a waterbuff hunt in texas 5 years ago. hopefully those are big enough. had not a problem with exits, and many times the hardcast lfn,wfn don't penetrate well, they're disrupted by excessive velocity. i'm gonna have to find the link to the penetration test that best shows this in action.

in a word, two different brands of hardcast bullets out of .44 mag pistols penetrated about the same depth. then shot out of rifles at a significantly higher velocity, one deformed worse and tumbled and actually got worse penetration, while the other (a garrett) actually penetrated further, the belt mountain punch bullet in 44 mag continued to penetrate further the greater the velocity. the .500 smith has not shown to be the best penetrating pistol round in most penetration tests that have been done.

in many instances excessive velocity worsens penetration and each design and weight bullet has it's optimum velocity for penetration, go above it and it suffers, go below and it suffers.

I would use a 44 mag and up depending on my recoil and blast tolerance..Most handgun, bow and muzzle loader hunters who hunt dangerous game also depend on a guide with a big rifle rifle to back them up..

I'm satisfied with your choices. The 8 3/8 barrel on the 500 S&W might be a little cumbersum but a good holster can fix that and I like the 376 also, maybe a little longer barrel but it's all good. R.

X,

I hope you change your mind. If you're going to come all the way from Georgia on a once in a lifetime bear hunt I think you should bring your center fire rifle. Depending on where you go and who you go with, there may certainly be the excellent possibilty of getting close on a large brown bear. On the other hand, there may not be.

If I were you, (please forgive me for being so presumptuous,)I'd be a little annoyed with myself if I was unable to close the deal on a trophy size bear with my handgun but was able to close with a 7' square 3 year old cub. If you bring a rifle you certainly stand a better chance of catching up with a trophy size bear due to less range limitations.

Gumboot was exactly right when he suggested using your rifle and then stalking in to handgun range or less if the opportunity presents itself if that is what you value. I see no difference between taking a trophy bear at close range with a rifle, handgun or bow. Okay, well I guess there is that DG hunting with a bow thing so there is a difference with the bow.) If you made the successful stalk,..... you made the successful stalk.

gumboot

When I got my 475 it came with a bunch of factory Buffalo Bore Ammo. For big bear I would use the 420gr lead bullet, or the 440gr lead bullet.

I have killed a turkey with the Buffalo Bore 420 low velocity load, and a deer, wild pig and a black bear with the Hornady 400gr XTP.

I do know that the 420 BB load will shoot into the brain of a big bull elephant from the front as well as the side.