My young boy, age 9, was bought a 260 Remington in the Ruger full sized platform a couple of years ago and I put a cheap ramline "cadet" stock on it for him. 160 Hornady RN's make short work of deer without a lot of Muzzle speed. 140 Nosler's PT wait in the closet for the elk hunt. Understanding all the reasons why, the 6.5x55 or 260 Rem. would be my bottom choice. Sure would like to have a true 160 solid to go along with the softs though. Anybody got a couple hundred of the old military RN pills from years gone by in a sack somewhere??

Sounds about right. I do know that using a hard kicking rifle that beats the hell out of you when you touch it off, is not conducive to good shooting.
I do remember one hunt as a pretty young kid at the time while using a .338 WM. I had up till then used a old Win. .30-30 on everything; and was pretty deadly with it. But I saved some money and just had to have a BIG gun. So the first time I hunted with it, a blacktail darted out of some brush at about 30 yards. I unloaded that damn thing at it, and never touched hide! I was amazed, and pissed! I wanted to chuck that damn thing down the canyon, and just knew that if I had my '94 Win., I would be skinning the buck about then. The recoil was too much for me back then. I sold that thing shortly after that.
I'd go so far as to bet a case of beer, that one of Phil's biggest irratants, is client's bringing rifle's they can't shoot!

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I was using the 220 Partitions as I did a test using damp magazines and the 220 Partitions outpenetrated everything else by quite a bit. Next in line were the 200 Swifts and 180 TSX ( which gave identical penetration), followed by the 240 Woodleighs PP and finally the 220 Woodleigh RN.

The 220 Partitions equalled 300 gr Partitions from a 375 H&H and beat 400 gr DGX Hornady softs from a 416.

.
.
. Thats impressive !!!!!
/ Are these new bullets ?? Do you have a faster than standard twist in the 06 you did the penetration test with ????? I have been recomending the 180 X now TSX or the 200 X /TSX to friends who ask about my recommendation in the 06 .. They all seem to want to use 220 gr bullets , but I haven't been impressed with the ones I,ve seen ... I thot Nosler only made the 200 in a Partition ....?

gumboot458,
Phil can speak to the particular rifle question you asked but Nosler has been making a 220 Partition for a long time. It is listed as a semi-spitzer and I suppose that describes it pretty well. Looks a lot like the old 275 Speer Semi spitzer .338 pill did in shape. They were just cup and core and were fantastic penetration bullets in the .338 Win mag.
dmw

When I had posted that I hadn,t read the whole thread . I see he has an 8" twist .... I,ve never heard about these tho .. I was sure ( wrongly perhaps ) The Nosler 220 was just a non Partition cup and core ..?? .......... I would still say a 375 Ruger . and a 223 ....

gumboot, I had this 30-06 built specifically as a rifle that could use to hunt anything, anywhere. It has a faster 1 in 8 twist as I knew I would be using it mostly in Alaska with heavy bullets but it also shoots well with everything down to 150 grs. I even have four or five boxes of the old Steel jacketed Hornady 220gr solids in case I decide to take it to Africa.

Phil,

Have you ever tried those old 250 grain Barnes original semispitzer bullets with your 30/06?
I think that it would work for everything and would be interesting
for African game as well.
They quit making them about 15 years ago but they were the best
moose bullets ever designed. Great penetration and monster expansion.

Sincerely,
Thomas

I think one reason modern 06,s sometimes fail to carry the load is they are twisted too slow for the heavy bullets ...... I myself don,t think the 375 is helped out by a great big heavy bullet . But I think the 06 is helped by them .......... The monometal bullets don,t seem to need too much weight , but conventional bullets do ... This has all been gone over on these forums in the past . . And I feel an Alaskan rifle needs to be able to do everything comfortably in my hands . , that means a 375 ........ However , as I discovered yesterday , , The 308Winchester , makes a darn good coyote rifle !

Ya, and in reality I'm sure just about anything from about 7x57 on up thru .375 will work on most things well, as long as the bullet is placed in the right place. I sure like the medium bores however.
Playing around with the .35 Whelen this season thru the end of the year. Next year going to hunt the .375 Ruger.
I doubt I will be able to tell much difference between the two on Bear and Elk here in the rain forests.
And I have a tendency to; as Gumboot says; use an inexpensive, heavy for caliber bullet, like a Hornady RN.
Would like to find about a 275 gr. for the Whelen, but 250 is all I can find.

Phil & others, I building a 300 H&H on a MK X long action & a MK X 30-06 barrel

For bear, Phil you convinced me to use the 220 NP

What 30 Cal bullet would you recommend for moose & caribou; or should I just use the 220 on everything

Abob, If I had to list the one perfect all around bullet for everything in Alaska it would be the 200 Partition. It has enough weight and high enough BC to make it an ideal long range bullet as well as a close range basher.

I have never owned one, but I think IF I lived in AK, my "all round" rifle would be a 338 Win Mag.

Shoots as flat as a 30/06, with a heavier bullet... And hits almost as hard as a 375 H&H...

Has less recoil, IMHO, than a 300 Win Mag...

Whats not to like???

PS, I would be happy with Nosler 210, 225, or 250 Partitions, which ever shot best at 300 yards in my rifle...

Trophy Bonded Bearclaws, Swifts, or even better North Forks, would do just as well, or even better...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have never owned one, but I think IF I lived in AK, my "all round" rifle would be a 338 Win Mag.

Shoots as flat as a 30/06, with a heavier bullet... And hits almost as hard as a 375 H&H...

Has less recoil, IMHO, than a 300 Win Mag...

Whats not to like???

PS, I would be happy with Nosler 210, 225, or 250 Partitions, which ever shot best at 300 yards in my rifle...

Trophy Bonded Bearclaws, Swifts, or even better North Forks, would do just as well, or even better...

While it is hard to argue with your choice, I have never seen where the 338 is better than a 375. But that's just me...

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Ya, and in reality I'm sure just about anything from about 7x57 on up thru .375 will work on most things well, as long as the bullet is placed in the right place. I sure like the medium bores however.
Playing around with the .35 Whelen this season thru the end of the year. Next year going to hunt the .375 Ruger.
I doubt I will be able to tell much difference between the two on Bear and Elk here in the rain forests.
And I have a tendency to; as Gumboot says; use an inexpensive, heavy for caliber bullet, like a Hornady RN.
Would like to find about a 275 gr. for the Whelen, but 250 is all I can find.

.
.
.I like the 270 gr Hornady basically just because I do ...... I prefer the TSX for alot of things but in the 375 Ruger the 270 Hornady is imo great for Alaska..........
. I,ll tell ya what , if you want to waste a lot of caribou meat , shoot it in the shoulder with a 308 Win and 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips .....Yuk !!! The 375 would make less mess ....

The recoil issue is so tied to many variables. Weight of gun, load be used, shape of the stock, width of the but pad, perhaps length of pull (perception) and maybe how cold it is outside when you are pulling the trigger.
Generally speaking the 338's have a smaller barrel than a 375 so they are a bit lighter weapon. I cannot tell allot of difference; except my 470 Heym 88 (ouch!)That one wakes me up!

EZ

Ya Gumboot, I like the 270gr. Hornady for the .375 as well. Has always done a good job. I will probably stick with them in the Ruger.

Wish I could find some 275 grainers for the 35 Whelen however.
So far with the bullet shortage down here, 225 Sierra's are about all I have been able to get.
Again, our game is not that big, and it has been years since I last used any Sierra's, but when I did, they had a tendency to come apart a little too quickly. I've had some Hornady's on back order for about 6 months now!

And, the ballistic tips seem to be better for small game, as they do come apart much faster and tear hell out of meat.The last thing I shot with them was a small deer in the shoulder with a 7-08 and a 140 gr. bullet. Shoulder was gone!
Cheers Gumboot!

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have never owned one, but I think IF I lived in AK, my "all round" rifle would be a 338 Win Mag.

Shoots as flat as a 30/06, with a heavier bullet... And hits almost as hard as a 375 H&H...

Has less recoil, IMHO, than a 300 Win Mag...

Whats not to like???

PS, I would be happy with Nosler 210, 225, or 250 Partitions, which ever shot best at 300 yards in my rifle...

Trophy Bonded Bearclaws, Swifts, or even better North Forks, would do just as well, or even better...

While it is hard to argue with your choice, I have never seen where the 338 is better than a 375. But that's just me...

I do not own a 338, I use a 9,3x74R or a 375 H&H when I need that power range..

The advantage of the 338 is that it has less recoil IMHO which makes it better for "all round" use.

A 210 Nosler Partition shoots pretty flat, but still has enough thump and penetration if you bump into a big bear, and if you are hunting big bear on purpose you can go to a 250gr premium bullets.

If I lived in Ak or just sent a bunch of time there, and could only have one rifle It would be my Blaser R 93 375 H&H Tracker [19 3/4" barrel] in the synthentic stock.
I would just use Federal Factory 300gr Nosler Partitions, and carry a few 300gr Federal Sledgehammer Solids.

Over on Alaska forums thier is a debate about this well kind of the questionw as asked over their between the 338 Win mag and the 358 norma mag right now it seems to be split... From what OI have seen 375H&H and 338 win mag dominate the hunting scene up thier... You do see 300 win mag and the good ol 06 as well. I hunted with a 284 winchester this year for moose using speer 160gr hot core bullet shot a moose and it worked fine... Would I use that round for a brwon bear probably not I would either pick my 338 or 358 norma for that job load them up with a good 250gr slug and be done with it...

quote:

The advantage of the 338 is that it has less recoil IMHO which makes it better for "all round" use.

I've owned a Ruger 77, Win 70, & Browning A-Bolt in 338 Win Mag; to me, their felt recoil was worst than my MK X 375 H&H, I'm sure it is due to the difference in weight

The 338 was a slap while the 375 is more of a push

just my experience

I agree. I have had half dozen .338s and in every case have found every .375 I have had or shot, much easier on the shoulder with it's slower push. The .338s have always been rather snappy.

another one who feels the 375 is a push instead of a slap. My 375 is lighter than my 338, but the 338 feels 'harder' in recoil.

Good to hear I'm not the only one

I'm building a 300 H&H on a MK X action; I'll be interested to compare it's recoil to a 300 Win Mag I owned

If the recoil turns out to be a push vice the slap of the the 300 Win Mag, maybe we can be attribute the differnce in felt recoil to the longer action & longer case?

My 300 Win Mag was a Ruger M77, not a light rifle

If your .300 H&H is the same weight and stock profile, there will be little difference in recoil. I put a limbsaver pad on my .300 WM and it feels to me like a big .243. Can shoot it all day long with no ill effects at all. That pad makes all the difference.
I put them on most my rifles from .300s on up in caliber. The difference in feel from say a stock hard rubber Ruger pad is amazing.
Cheers.

Hmmm, looks like the .338WM has got a lot of support as an Alaskan cartridge, but noticed that not much mentioned as a particular rifle is concerned.
Would bet it would be an all weather Ruger 77.
That way it could double as a canoe paddle.

My Sako 85 SS in .375 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
I agree. I have had half dozen .338s and in every case have found every .375 I have had or shot, much easier on the shoulder with it's slower push. The .338s have always been rather snappy.

. My experience hasn,t been thus ... In fact the 338 imo many loads has less bothersome crack and buck than the 300 Win et al.

I agree with the observations on the favorable recoil on a 375 H&H. It is much more pleasant shoot than my 458 lott or 338 lapua. I have only been to alaska once. Worked up there for a summer on a purse seiner going after salmon back when there were still some decent runs. Lots of rain. If I were spending any time up there hunting lots of game, I would want a synthetic stocked 375 in a fairly light package, something like an empire arms basic model synthetic. I would not be shooting at any bears unless it was necessary, however, i think it would comforting to have and provide a good measure of power on species such as moose.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
I agree. I have had half dozen .338s and in every case have found every .375 I have had or shot, much easier on the shoulder with it's slower push. The .338s have always been rather snappy.

. My experience hasn,t been thus ... In fact the 338 imo many loads has less bothersome crack and buck than the 300 Win et al.

Hmmm, could be the stock design of the .300s you shot. I have had a Ruger #1 in .300 Weatherby that was rather nasty, but the stocks on those things do not do anything to help felt recoil at all.
I'm sure one's body type has a lot to do with how you feel recoil as well.
I have one shooting buddy that is 6'4" and pretty thin; but strong as well. He just rocks back like a big spring with heavy recoilers, and it doesn't bother him a bit. Then some of the heavier guys I know don't move back much at all, so they absorb all the recoil into their shoulders, and they turn black & blue, and say ouch a lot.
From what I've seen, the stronger, thin wirey guy's seem to handle recoil the best.
Me; I'm 5'10, 260 lbs, pretty solid, and just too stupid to care about the kick!
I think it's pretty subjective with every shooter and their build.

For a rugged, reliable, all purpose Alaskan hunting tool it is hard to beat a .338 Ruger all weather rifle.

Originally posted by .458 Win

quote:

For a rugged, reliable, all purpose Alaskan hunting tool it is hard to beat a .338 Ruger all weather rifle.

I'll have to say pluse one on that.

Phil, by the way. . . . .

checked out your web site; extremely nice set up!

I,ve shot stainless Ruger s in 300 Win and 338 Win , on the same range session , and the 300 was no easier to shoot than the 338 . Both w/ canoe paddle stocks ....... Since with the 200 gr X bullet @ 2950 fps the 338 shot as flat as I needed ,and with 275 gr KBC s had power on the level with the 375 .. Pretty good combo !!!!!

I have more than one caliber in my stable but I always grab my 30-06.

You cannot anticipate every thing that "may" happen, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna lug around a 10lb rifle for the charge that more than likely wont happen.

I'll just use my head and the 30-06.

my other rifles will be used (one of these years), I just dont fret about certain things.

Thats what I like about the 375 Ruger Alaskan . With a normal Ruger synthetic stock it weighs no more than most 06s . It shoots pretty much as flat and doesn,t ruin any more meat .. BUT in places where I hunt the probability of shooting a bear are at least fair , And bigger is always better there if the shooter isn,t a cull .

With todays technology in plastics, it is real easy to get a 375 an up lightweight. I had a 7.5lb 458Lott. easy to carry but I wouldnt recommend to many shots off the bench.

Nothing wrong with the larger calibers, I just dont see a need for it, unless you want to.

theres a fair to above fair chance to shoot a bear anywhere in AK. theres also a differance between a close encounter and an attack.

Anybody who travels in the bush will have an encounter (this is where using your head comes in) but a real attack is rare considering how many folks are in the bush at a given time. It can happen, I'm just not paranoid over it. I respect the hell out of bears but I'm more worried about a pissed off moose.

I have my 416rem, I'm building a 375 and I also have my co-pilot. I also trust the hell out of my '06.

Just my .02cents worth.

As a non resident who has never hunted there (yet, 2010 is right around the corner) I opted for the .338 for the availibilty of ammo, its unquestionable reputation for the game there, and its relatively cheap compared to some of the other magnums, plus its not that bad on the shoulder.

When the oppurtunity to hunt there comes few times in a lifetime (if you're lucky) and at incredible expense, I have no patience for "grey area" calibers.

WS, no flies on the 338winny. Its an excellant caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Thats what I like about the 375 Ruger Alaskan . With a normal Ruger synthetic stock it weighs no more than most 06s . It shoots pretty much as flat and doesn,t ruin any more meat .. BUT in places where I hunt the probability of shooting a bear are at least fair , And bigger is always better there if the shooter isn,t a cull .

I agree 100%

Keeping in mind what you can encounter there I would go with 8mm-06 and 9,3x64.

I have a couple of Rugers with the canoe paddle stocks. I don't think one could find a tougher stock. But I do prefer the style made after them for looks.