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Wait a minute, if I am getting mauled by a bear my partner better shoot that animal because where I stand it is a no lose proposition, If he kills the bear I win, If he doesn't kill the bear I am dead which is what I would expect from a bear mauling and if he shoots me and I am dead it was a little quicker, and if I am wounded, hey I was in the act of a mauling what is one additional clean wound, I am either going to survive or die from infection, what is the downside? surviving as some invalid in which case I hope my partner returns and shoots me anyway before the hospital uses up all my money and puts me in a state facility. Reminds me of two hikers walking through the woods and they walk up on a large bear, the one guy drops to the ground and switches from hiking boots to running shoes in which case his partner says, "don't you know you cannot outrun a bear"!, his partner reponds "of course I do but all I need to do is outrun you"! | ||
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Quote: That reminds me of Uncle Bucky. He climbed up a tree after a wounded coon, and found himself mixing it up with the beast on a tree limb. He yelled down at us to shoot, which we didn't do, because "we can't tell you from the coon". He yelled to "shoot anyway; one of us up here's gotta have some relief!"  I suppose that sort of thing is a matter of choice or priorities. You have yours, Bucky had his, and I certainly have mine. The way I see it, if a bear is chewing on me, he's already got me. I don't need to entertain a gunshot wound as well. Besides, comprehensive bear attack data shows that bear maulings usually aren't fatal (no; I'm not making light of such an experience: like I've said, I've never had the "pleasure", and hope I never do). But gunshot wounds are serious stuff, too, especially when you're talking about the calibers used for big game hunting. Take just one of those rounds in the head or torso, and it's pretty much a done deal, folks, especially when added to bear mauling injuries. One of those rounds will turn your insides to jelly. No, thanks. I'll rely on my bear-mauling-avoidance habits, my hunting or carry rifle, my sidearm, the Grace of God, and (if the unthinkable happens anyway), the ability of surgeons to stitch me back together. Please, bear or no bear, don't shoot in my direction. | |||
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Maybe I am misunderstanding something, if your in the middle of nowhere I beleieve there are no emergency wards around so unless your partner is some hotshot trauma medical doctor any wound can be fatal, maybe not right away but infection or shock. Therefore one of the basics in survival from injury is STOP THE BLEEDING which means to me STOP THE MAULING so one can deal with STOP THE BLEEDING and that means SHOOT DA BEAR, most car accident victims donot die immediately but die at amergency room from injuries sustained in the accident which are generally inflicted all at once and then the trauma is stopped. In a bear mauling it may go on for a while, the best way to minimise the extent of injury is to put an end to what is causing the trauma and that is SHOOT DA BEAR. I would have a problem paying a guide several thousand dollars when he tells me If DA BEAR gets ya I'll be back for ya, I think only if his check is in my pocket will this dufus be back. | |||
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One of my coworkers told me a moose "charging" story about his brother, who back then worked for Fish And Wildlife up here. His brother and a hunting partner were hunting from tree stands, not too far from each other. His hunting partner shot a bull moose with his .30-06, and it dropped almost instantly after the shot. They both stepped down and approached the downed moose through the brush, but all of the sudden the moose got up and charged the F&G guy, who by then was in the open. He didn't have time to fire a shot before the moose was on top of him, but he managed to hold on to the antlers, with his body between the brow tines. The moose gored him a few times and slammed him against a tree breaking some ribs. His partner realizing what was going on stepped next to the moose, and shot it point blank killing it. When he told me the story about nine years ago, I didn't ask him for details on exactly where the moose had been shot the first and second times, nor about who ended up skinning and quartering the moose, since his brother was rushed to the hospital where he stayed for quite a while recovering from his wounds. I always wait 10 to 15 minutes before approaching a downed moose, and always from the rear or to the side. When the animal is dead, you can tell by the glaze in its eyes. If I can't see the eyes, I stand nearby watching for signs breathing or any body movement. However, so far waiting at least ten minutes before I walk to it has helped. | |||
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Quote: That's true, but if you have a satellite phone, a helicopter is just a few hours away. The helicopter itself is an emergency ward. Plenty of meds, and good looking female EMTs. I was damned glad to see them. That's how I got saved from my gunshot wound. I never would have made it out otherwise. | |||
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Quote: I had a similar thing happen on a moose hunt several years ago. I put four 30-06 (180 grain Noslers) into a moose's boiler room, and he went down. My partners jumped ashore, and started walking up to it as I reloaded my rifle. Just as they were about 15 feet from it, it jumped up and headed for them. As they turned to run, I put 3 more into it's neck and behind the ear. All four of my first volley had connected, and one was through the heart. 1 round from the second volley went through the neck, but missed the spine, and 1 hit the antler beam next to the ear. 1 round from the second volley missed. Now, the moose wasn't on top of them, so I didn't feel uncomfortable shooting again. And I damned sure wouldn't have walked up to it while it still had it's head up, panting. I wish folks would think a little before just doing stuff. | |||
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| One of Us |
It sounds like the '06 may be a little on the light side for Moose | |||
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That is what I have been saying, lost of blood leads to shock which culminates in death, if not infection can cause death later. If you minimize the damage you are that much ahead, you still may die but maybe a miracle will occur. Now how many people carry a satelite phone a GPS and sufficent medical equipment to sustain your life until a aircraft or airplane might pick you up. Will a aircraft come looking for you after dark? I have never heard a plane toward dark the times I have been in the bush. the fact is stop the damage as soon as possible and you have a greater chance of survival, to think of aloowing a bear to chew on you until it gets tired seems ridiculous to me but hey its your life but I want the shot(s) to be taken these are things that should be discussed so you know what to do when it hits the fan. | |||
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Quote: After nearly 30 years of shooting moose with the 06, that's my final conclusion. I'm using the 338 from now on. | |||
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Quote: You are very persistent, sir. I'll address this last post of yours point by point, then let it alone. It's very clear what your position is, and I hope I'll make it very clear what my position is, then we can deal with bear maulings as we see fit. "Now how many people carry a satelite phone a GPS and sufficent medical equipment to sustain your life until a aircraft or airplane might pick you up." Not enough, in my humble opinion. But I do. "Will a aircraft come looking for you after dark?" I'm not sure. If I gave them GPS coordinates, and shined my headlamp up at them upon their arrival, they might pick me up. I know this: they rescue commercial fishermen in the Bering Sea in the darkest of nights, and in the wildest of storms. And they rescued me when I needed it (under less than ideal conditions, too). "I have never heard a plane toward dark the times I have been in the bush." You musta been sleeping. "the fact is stop the damage as soon as possible and you have a greater chance of survival" No argument from me there. I just don't want the additional damage of a gunshot wound, which was just enough to kill me before. Like I've written, I've never been mauled by a bear. If the Good Lord sees fit for me to endure that, I'll give it a try without the bullets flying in my direction, thanks. "to think of aloowing a bear to chew on you until it gets tired seems ridiculous to me" Me, too. I'll be fighting like hell. Me; not my "partner". I'll do my own fighting, thanks. I might need the help, but I don't want it. "but hey its your life" Yup. That's the way I like it. "these are things that should be discussed so you know what to do when it hits the fan." Again, I've never been mauled, but I've seen various $hit hit the fan. I know what to do. I don't need to discuss it to learn. And with that discussion completed, I'll let it go. | |||
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RAAMW, I don't know of a quality outfitter or registered guide that doesn't have some type of radio or satellite communications in camp. I know quite a few hunters that carry radios w/aircraft band capabilities when they hunt alone. Hell, even way up in the most remote areas of the Brooks Range you can expect a visit in sheep camp from the Fish and Game officers by air. Technology has arrived in the Great Land and, whether you deem it good or bad, it's here to stay. My guess is that it is more likely we would get a timlier rescue in a remote area up here than you would where you are. Happens all the time................. Joe | |||
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I know I said that I'd leave this discussion alone after my last post, but I just came across something that strongly applies to this topic and also strengthens my position on someone "shooting a bear off of me". Several years ago I read the Marshall/Sanow study of one-shot-stopping capabilities of handgun calibers, and it was a great read. Now apparently the study has expanded to include centerfire rifle rounds and shotgun rounds. Today I was turned on to a website that has the Marshall/Sanow study results in a chart form: http://www.powernet.net/~eich1/sp.html Please note the 100% ratings of some 223 Remington and 308 Winchester loads. The original study didn't include rifle cartridges, and the best rating at that time was the Remington 125 grain JHP in 357 mag at 96%. | |||
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Quote: I did not see the 454 Casull or the 500MAG listed. There are a lot of others not listed. Must be an old report.  | |||
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I am sure technology can help but the basic idea is this occurs when all else fails. My partner has two beautiful little girls and a wife who depends on him and I cringe at the thought that I somehow may be at fault for not helping him and the key word is helping, to do nothing just ain't going to work, many people die in surgery not that the surgeon is trying to kill them but that they are trying to help them and sometimes it just doesn't work and they know that and that what keeps them going to work. I hear people say they fight a bear...like the joke where does a 600 pound gorilla sleep....anywhere it wants, your don't get into a fight without a reasonable probability of success...remember intelligence is what alloweds us to share the top of the food chain and firarms is what kept us there provided we have them. | |||
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Raamw, I wasn't knocking how you feel over getting involved. I certainly wouldn't be hunting with someone that I didn't have enough confidence in to shoot a bear off me in a tight. That said, you NEVER leave anyone when the s*** hits the fan. Joe | |||
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Amen I know your not knocking me, disagreements are our way of resolving our misunderstandings, it is a healthly way of learning provided the attacks do not take on a life of their own. I take pride for the people I hunt with and I surely hope those that chose to go with me do the same knowing if it hits the fan that I am going to do whatever is possible to resolve the problem. I have only hunted the bush of Alaska twice and you are truly on your own, you can say what you want about radios but you must remember these are line of site transmitters, if nobody is in the air within a reasonable distance due to weather or time of day you are on your own, again with the proliferation of satelite phones things are on a different playing field. | |||
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I think a satellite phone is a must, we are going to have one. I am a firm believer in having a way to get a hold of someone when needed. I am a diabetic and god forbid something would happen. I am sure that way back in time there were a lot of people that wish they had a way to reach the outside world. | |||
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I've heard this question for years and my answer is "If you can not kill a bear with your rifle then how in the hell do you plan on killing it with a handgun?" | |||
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Quote: Maybe you missed something. I am looking more for a tent gun. Night time. I fully understand a rifle is my best choice! You seem to be a know it all, maybe instead of blasting someone you could post something of value.  | |||
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Quote: You seem to miss the obvious: 1) I can kill a bear with my rifle, and 2) My rifle isn't always within reach As for your question (...how in the hell do you plan on killing it with a handgun?): 1) I'm not "planning" on doing so, and 2) I don't care if it's "killed", as long as it's off of me, and I have a little time to crawl to my rifle (hanging on a branch, in the boat, in the Argo, in the camper, in the truck, or any other inappropriate place, like my back) to finish the damned thing off with if it comes back after consuming the handgun rounds I just pumped into it. | |||
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Yeah, what do you know about bear hunting? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Alaska Hunting Forum Re: Is a back up handgun needed in Alaska?
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