If all you had to bring as a self defense gun in grizzly country was your colt 1911, what ammo would you use?

230 grain ball for penetration, 45 ACP would not be my first choice. I'd go for a 44 Mag or bigger

I don't have a 44 but I do have a 45 that I shoot well. Does anyone make hard cast bullets for a 45.

I have several 45s that I shoot well too. Someone on another forum recommended these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...-flat-nose-box-of-20

I'm going to try them in my Springfield V16 LongSlide

Hard cast in the 230-250 range.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
Hard cast in the 230-250 range.

I think Buffalo bore makes the ammo you want to carry in your 45 if you don't reload.

I decided on a 250gr swc hard cast at 875fps if I would need to carry my 45 in bear country.

The buffalo bore are a little bit faster I just was not willing to go there.

quote:

Originally posted by Prewar70:
I don't have a 44 but I do have a 45 that I shoot well. Does anyone make hard cast bullets for a 45.

You work for a bank, take some out and go buy one.

45 Super

230 hard cast at 1200 fps or so...

if you have a sturdy pistol, add a heavier recoil spring, and maybe a heavier firing pin spring, depending on the gun you choose. Do some searching, pretty common.

I have a 4506 Smith and Wesson, and have hand loaded to a higher velocity than I will post...

use Starline Brass, or buy from one of a couple online retailers.

Glocks, USPs, most modern 1911A1's....and third gen Smith and Wesson autoloaders, are all good choices for the higher pressures.

It will batter a pistol, so overall life span will be reduced. But, for me, I practice with lite stuff, and function test with a carry load, and that is all I shoot. So, I will not likely wear it out.

45 super makes a respectable bear load, imo.
on par with a hot loaded 45 Long Colt, with more capacity.

not quite to heavy 44 Mag territory, but within spitting distance.

Biggest advantage is you already have a 45 ACP, and chances are, can convert with just a couple springs.

230 grain Jacketed Flat point ammo at regular pressure. No change in your hardball gun. they feed, fire and penetrate. Going to be a very close head shot anyway or you simply won't need to shoot. Now hitting the spot, that is another matter. Try hitting a grapefruit at 30 MPH incoming guarded by hair, skin, gristle, skull plate and teeth for practice...
http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...al-jacket-flat-point
one place it can be bought.

quote:

Now hitting the spot, that is another matter. Try hitting a grapefruit at 30 MPH incoming guarded by hair, skin, gristle, skull plate and teeth for practice...

Spray 'n pray baby!

I run a S&W 629 w/ 300 gr hard cast myself.

quote:

Originally posted by low_tech:
45 Super

230 hard cast at 1200 fps or so...

if you have a sturdy pistol, add a heavier recoil spring, and maybe a heavier firing pin spring, depending on the gun you choose. Do some searching, pretty common.

I have a 4506 Smith and Wesson, and have hand loaded to a higher velocity than I will post...

use Starline Brass, or buy from one of a couple online retailers.

Glocks, USPs, most modern 1911A1's....and third gen Smith and Wesson autoloaders, are all good choices for the higher pressures.

It will batter a pistol, so overall life span will be reduced. But, for me, I practice with lite stuff, and function test with a carry load, and that is all I shoot. So, I will not likely wear it out.

45 super makes a respectable bear load, imo.
on par with a hot loaded 45 Long Colt, with more capacity.

not quite to heavy 44 Mag territory, but within spitting distance.

Biggest advantage is you already have a 45 ACP, and chances are, can convert with just a couple springs.

I have a Springfield Longslide V16 that was designed for 45 Super. It's my hunting/backwoods sidearm. That being said I like the recommendation for the 255g hardcast Buffalo Bore ammo in 45 ACP. Should be close to 1000 fps out my LongSlide with very little recoil.

Chuck,
sweet longslide.

quote:

Originally posted by MuskegMan:

quote:

Now hitting the spot, that is another matter. Try hitting a grapefruit at 30 MPH incoming guarded by hair, skin, gristle, skull plate and teeth for practice...

Spray 'n pray baby!

I run a S&W 629 w/ 300 gr hard cast myself.

I believe the "Spray and Pray" analogy to be very accurate.

As usual I spent all of last week camping and fishing in brown bear country with no bear issues. We grilled salmon and fried bacon, Babe ate her usual dry dog food and we never saw any hairy animal other than moose. I kept my .45 with hard cast bullets around somewhere and my fishing friend had my .44 around too. Most times it was hard to say exactly where the things were.

I believe we continue to not have bear problems for all the reasons I've mentioned here before; pee everywhere, dog in camp, chainsaw and weed whacker used liberally, big smoky campfire. The bacon may smell enticing to a bear, but I think all the rest of the stimuli is down right obnoxious.

I think "Spray and Pray" is accurate no matter the defensive weapon chosen. My observation of bears on the move is that they are fast and focused. Grass here is chest high, so a bear making a terminal run at you isn't going to provide a lot of aiming opportunity. Pepper spray, a .45 or a .375 is going into action at point blank. Personally, I wouldn't worry about wind affecting the pepper spray since its going to be discharged at the target at a range of 2 yds or so.

I'll post some pictures of my latest bear free trip soon, but now I'm off again to go not see some more!

Are you saying you can't use this as an excuse to buy a new gun? A .45 for grizzly? Bear spray would be more effective.

Better than nothing, but hell, buy a new gun. 44 Mag in any form will do. If you like a semi auto frame, lots of guys like the 10mm Glock up here. I would think that is a minimum for grizzly, and still underpowered. I do carry a 44 Ruger Blackhawk, but it is in my pack - the UDAP is out and ready through the thick stuff.

First, penetration and placement, not energy makes the difference. You've got to hit the central nervous system to stop them. Second, Buffalo Bore's 45 Super ammo (which my V16 was built for) exceeds 44 Magnum loads out of a 7" revolver barrel

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...-flat-nose-box-of-50

I see your puny .45 ACP and raise you my HSM Bear Load:

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...cm_vc=ProductFinding

G'Day Fella's,

Please accept that I live at the other end of the Pacific Ocean, and I'm just talking theory here but a good mate of mine DE (an ex-pat American) and I discussed this very same question around a camp fire, a few years back!
DE suggested that he would carry a Glock 20 in 10mm Auto, with a magazine full of full power 200grain (sorry I can't remember the brand and or type of) bullets and maybe a spare mag somewhere handy!
Now I also can't remember the magazine capacity of the full size Glock 20 but I think it might be 12 or more rounds?
The thing you need to be aware of is, the 10mm Auto cartridge has the same power at 100yards, as a .45ACP has at the muzzle, hence DE's choice of Power and Mag Capacity!
I might be a chronic 1911 and .45ACP fan myself but I find it hard to argue with DE's choice!!!

Hope that helps with this discussion.....

D'oh!
Homer

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
I see your puny .45 ACP and raise you my HSM Bear Load:

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...cm_vc=ProductFinding

Fair enough lol!

Many people claim that handguns are useless for protection against bears. Numerous examples have shown that this is a false notion. Handguns may not be ideal as defensive weapons for bears, but they can be effective. In a defensive situation, you have to use what is available. In this case, a homeowner in Alaska used a .45 against a brown bear that was trying to get into his house on July 7th of this year. He and his son were in the home. He had scared off the animal with some warning shots just three hours before. From adn.com:



“I couldn’t believe that it came back,” he said.

Landess grabbed his .45 pistol, stepped out onto his upper deck, took aim and fired seven rounds toward the bear’s vitals. He said the bear “got crazy” and ran about 50 feet before it collapsed and died.

Landess said while he has seen bears around his property, living in close proximity to the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge, he had never experienced one this aggressive. He said he didn’t have any food around his house that could have attracted the bear but did have an empty cooler on his porch that the bear tossed around along with some chairs. He said this was the first big game he’d ever killed.

“I’m not a hunter; I’m a fisherman,” he said. “It wasn’t something I wanted to do. I wanted to scare him off.”

A comment by Landess' son on ADN.com gives us some more details: The pistol was a Hi-Point .45, and while seven shots were fired, only one shot hit the bear.

Yes that was my dad and he shot it with a highpoint 45. Shot at it 7 times but only one shot hit in the directed area. One threw the lung dropped it.
This appears to be another case of a bear that became too acclimated to humans. It associated humans with food, and so it became a serious risk to human life. Use of firearms as a defensive tool against animals is fairly common in the United States, though it is more common against an aggressive raccoon or a rattlesnake than against bears. No one knows exactly how many times a year guns are used defensively against animals. My personal observation is that in rural areas, defensive uses against animals, whether to defend life or property, are more common than defensive uses against people.



©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Link to Gun Watch


Posted by Dean Weingarten at 7/17/2014 11:30:00 PM No comments: Links to this post

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Many people claim that handguns are useless for protection against bears.

Not useless but not ideal much of the time.

The experts continue to recommend pepper spray. Buy the big cans specifically for bear protection (not Mace for humans). Carry it so it's instantly available (not at the bottom of your pack). Practice pulling off the safety device. Practice spraying with a live can so you can see how close a bear must be to get sprayed. Pay attention to the expiration date and do not let the contents freeze.

For most people most of the time, pepper spray is the best alternative--plus, who wants to deal with a dead DLP bear that must be skinned with the skin and skull going to Fish&Game?

quote:

Originally posted by vicvanb:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Many people claim that handguns are useless for protection against bears.

Not useless but not ideal much of the time.

The experts continue to recommend pepper spray. Buy the big cans specifically for bear protection (not Mace for humans). Carry it so it's instantly available (not at the bottom of your pack). Practice pulling off the safety device. Practice spraying with a live can so you can see how close a bear must be to get sprayed. Pay attention to the expiration date and do not let the contents freeze.

For most people most of the time, pepper spray is the best alternative--plus, who wants to deal with a dead DLP bear that must be skinned with the skin and skull going to Fish&Game?

We'd agree that "Experts" have little sway over Internet Hysteria?

Those that advocate firearms while afield over pepper spray for bear defense just haven't thought thru or been thru the DLP bear scenario. Today here in DLG we had a high temp of 70.6 degrees and a humidity of around 50%. Sitting/ kneeling/ squatting/ or reclining on a dlp'ed bear hide in your raft whilst floating and fishing the Nuyakuk, Kongakut, or Yukon river in 70 degree heat is a vacation destroyer, a "Good Time Had by All" eliminator. Even today, an average Dillingham day, the last thing I wanna do is goof with a bald, stinky dlp'ed bear. I don't want it dead in my yard bleeding on my lawn, I don't want it skinned, oozing and soaking into my pickup bed.

Go play somewhere else Yogi, I've got neighbors on either side of me, maybe one of them will be bored enough to kill you.

Hits are what count. If you get better accuracy from an auto than a large revolver that's the best thing to use. .
No doubt pepper spray is better than nothing but its not able to kill a bear and sometimes that's the only way to stay in one piece. Some type of hard nose bullet goin as fast as it reliably can.
I'll just use my Glock 10 mm with 220 Buffalo Bore @1200 fps.

I don't think many want to deal with a dead DLP bear.

Sounds like this guy didn't want that but because of the bears actions he didn't have a choice

That's not the point of article.

He used a lower end of the market firearm with what many would consider a sub powered round for bear .

It got the job done. Most of us would prefer something a bit bigger and better for the job at hand.

Or the best of all avoid it all together but some times animals just don't understand that.

The other thing to remember is that everytime you have an encounter with any bear that bear learns something. Unfortunately we seldom know how many lily livered, left leaning problem people have trained that bear before we had dealings with it. A guy I know got mauled last fall in Hoonah walking up a set of stairs by a couple of big cubs that were with the sow. She was training them. Fortunately for him she didn't get too involved. Any bear that's hangin around needs to be killed outright because if they think they can get just 1 mouth full of something they want they will remember that and be back at some point. Its best to be prepared and pro active. I would rather kill a thousand bears than have to go through all the trauma of reconstructive surgery or worse.

Hard ball that will be reliable in your gun. Use a bigger gun if you've got one. Don't try and shoot a bear in the head from the front unless you can put it up his nose. Side shot in the ear will put things at an end right there. Shoot center of mass.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I don't think many want to deal with a dead DLP bear.

Sounds like this guy didn't want that but because of the bears actions he didn't have a choice

That's not the point of article.

He used a lower end of the market firearm with what many would consider a sub powered round for bear .

It got the job done. Most of us would prefer something a bit bigger and better for the job at hand.

Or the best of all avoid it all together but some times animals just don't understand that.

One thing regarding this DLP with a .45. While the bear was nosy and needed to be permanently shooed off before it broke into the house, it wasn't a DLP where the bear burst out of the alders in a full charge.

The guy shot him from his deck. In this situation, a shot with a 9mm would have just as likely done the trick, as would a snoot full of UDAP.

Not saying he didn't need killin', but it is hardly a hands down endorsement of the stopping power of a 45.

Most problem bear encounters develop over a period of time. Sometimes less than 30 seconds but often a fairly long time. I've had close in bear confrontations last half an hour. The give way to a bear mentality doesn't work if all you need to do is to teach a bear to fear people. You have to learn when to push, when to stand, if and when to kill. Seldom do I retreat from a bear or multiple bears but have done so a few times. But it should always be done in more of what could be considered " their home " not yours. Beins I get sick of dealing with them I don't give them much time anymore. They can figure out to stay away from me or die for their ignorance. . Since adopting that attitude they split pretty quick. But usually I'm packin serious bear heat. Having great bear dogs is #2 on my list of necessary things to have immediately with you in bear country.

quote:

Originally posted by Prewar70:
If all you had to bring as a self defense gun in grizzly country was your colt 1911, what ammo would you use?

Buffalo Bore: I carry their ammo in my .357 and .45 LC, but I've not had to use it. I also carry bear spray. If I have a long gun, I don't carry the handgun but do carry the bear spray.