Seeing the posting about the gentleman who had his hunt canceled in mid hunt and was refused a partial refund brought back some horrible memories. I was in Kodiak to hunt Sitka deer with my brother in law. The "professional" shows up a day late, and then says his gear didn't make the flight. No problem I say as there was a fine outfitting store right in town. He demanded full payment for the hunt and would not promise to take us to the island "Marmot" we had plans to hunt. Both myself and my brother in law flashed the necessary green and told him he was welcome to it the first minute we arrived in camp. Of course that was un acceptable. Turns out he was having some problems with a son who had a sexual harrasment situation brewing in school, and didn't have time for his clients. This same upstanding individual was named a couple of years later as the outstanding (SCI) hunter of the year. I picketed his both at SCI convention the year following the incident, and only because I was a life member was I not expelled from the institution. The best part of it all was some older hunter's saying good for you as they passed by in the asiles. I no longer support SCI because of their false ethics, and general abuse of the membership, then again most people see them for what they are, while only a few good men stand up.

.308sako;

i was the guy that had his hunt canceled in mid week, no refund, with see alaska with jim keeline inc.

yes, i have had 2 other problems with different outfitters in alaska. one of them , spiridon bear camp, was the same co. that was recently in trouble for having the guide shoot the clients bear, mr. gentner, was all over the internet in july and august of 2003. they too shorted me one day on a 6 day hunt and gave me a guide who was legally blind.

i salute your picketing the lousy guide at s.c.i..

who was the outfitter?

i have bought many guided hunts at the s.c.i. auctions in the last several years. although i am not a life member, fortunately, i did spend enough to become one of their "patrons club" members. reserved for their best customers. i have gotten screwed on more of these auctioned hunts than i care to admit to. i should have wised up sooner , as to what is going on with the s.c.i. auctions. you hit it right on the head when u mentioned them abusing their members. not only would i never by an auctioned hunt from them again, i will not even go to their convention any more. once they have your money, they could care less what happens with the hunt. was the service sold actually provided? they could care less and told me as much when i complained about all the problems. even though they receive the money, they want no responsiblity for anything that happens after that.

Their auction dept., Libby Grimes, is exceptionally rude and abusive to hunt auction purchasers. she will waste your time and spin u around in circles with letters, phone calls, forms, investigations, all for nothing.

i had a hunt scheduled for jan. 2003 that was rescheduled 3 times in a 5 week time span. the outfitter finally refused to honor his donation, after months of fighting with them i eventually received a partial refund. i am out $2,250. by the way , they refused to throw the offending outfitter out of their club. guess that is the kind of members they want. this same outfitter, alex ortiz, chihuahua outfitters has been featured in the hunting report in the may and oct. 2003 issues for taking payment in full from 5 hunters, plus $500 license fees , and not delivering anything.

anyone who does business with s.c.i. , is either stupid or uninformed. I agree with u about s.c.i. being wholly unethical, but i think that many of the members still do not know what is going on.

*WARNING, DO NOT BUY AUCTIONED HUNTS FROM S.C.I.*
u will get screwed.

cold zero

Gentlemen,

I have read quite a lot of books on hunting in Alaska, and the weather seems to play a major part in the majority of them.

Yes Saeed the weather does play a significant role, but all too often the greed factor in American and that includes Alaskan outfitters can ruin your day. After all what we seek is to satisfy some sort of dream experience in a tangible fashion, and what the outfitter tries to do is provide you with the necessary ingredients to fulfill that dream. That is under the best possible conditions. When it is not possible one must look at the situation and or the reasons for the failure and place the blame or allocate the guilt as well as possible. When you have been around the block a few times you begin to know what it should look like.

was on a business trip to anchorage a some years ago, and got snowed in. Luckily I found a couple flesh blankets to keep me warm until the airport was opened again.(:

I always find that foul weather is the best time to snuggle up to your signifigant other Oh, not that kind of screwing

Sadly whether in Alaska, lower 48, Africa or anywhere, there are shady guides and outfitters, not to mention dentists, doctors and any other profession you care to speak of. Good business practices and integrity seem to be in short supplies these days.

That said, there are also lots of excellent guides in the state.

.308sako;

i think u hit it right on. one needs to be very careful and thorough with these trips. the penalty for a mistake, is steep.

paul h.;

no doubt your statement is true in todays times. however, for some reason, that business seems to have more than its fair share of unscrupuous businessmen. maybe the state needs to police that industry more.

cold zero

as an "other professional" I can't agree more, I spend more time cleaning up messes that my peers create than actually making progress for my clients... its quite aggravating.

I hadn't heard this about SCI, (hadn't looked for it either, so no surprise there) but I am glad to see that you guys are sticking to your guns.

The unfortunate part of it is that I have a degree in business (well, two of em actually), and never once have I had to study anything even remotely relating to "ethics" and that is sad... they should teach that to all the freshman...

I have gone back to Alaska to hunt almost every year since I moved away roughly 20 years ago and it seems that it rains a good part of every trip I make back. This year it rained 9 of the 14 days I was hunting.

Doug

[ 10-18-2003, 02:18: Message edited by: dwhunter ]

Last fall I did 2 deer hunts out in PWS. Hunt one: I managed 1 1/2 days of hunting and 3 days and nights staying awake in the boat because of a gale.

The other hunt I never got to hunt at all and slept in the boat for 5 days at 10 degrees and finally had to hire a larger boat to come out and tow me back in through 5-7 foot waves.

This is not eastern hunting!

I'm weather "screwed" this very second. In fact,I've been screwed all but one day,since last Tuesday(14th). Severe winds are really kicking our ass and we can't work and it of course hampers Hunting.

This second it is gusting over 60mph,raining in impressive fashion and I'd simply have it no other way.

If it were sunny and warm,this would be like California. I enjoy minimal pressure and am happy to wait the weather to break,despite our forecast sounding same/same through next Wednesday.

Once the Rut truly kicks in,the weather doesn't make a shit,but it is tough right now...............

308 Sako and Cold Zero,
Gentlemen, you don't understand, this is Alaska. You both landed On Alaska land right? That concluded your hunt under any circumstance. After all that landing was your "attempt to take which is the same as take".!!!!!!!!!! Don't take my word ask the state troopers, or the commissioner's office.

Bill G.

if i pay the outfitter 100 cents on the dollar, i want 100% effort in return.

i don't call canceling on day 4 of a 10 day hunt and leaving with all my $ , putting out effort for me. i call it robbery.

i was supposed to get 3 extra days beyond the normal 7 day goat hunt jim keeline sells, instead , i got 3 days less.

cold zero

Coldzero,
This practice is obviously common place here. I have received a number of contacts through the huntersbeware web site from outfitters east of the AK border offering a little more ethical approach to some of these issues. You might want to take a look.

i like big stick got weathered. lost one day so far, does not look good for tomorrow.

went to kodiak taxidermy and met eric and cole. enjoyed hanging out with them and seeing the racks.

thanks for the ride cole.

cold zero

There is no way the OUTFITTER canceling of a man's paid for 12 day hunt after four days, and leaveing him to his own devices, without some refund, can be justified!

Now, having said that, if you don't want to take a chance on haveing the weather dump on your hunt, then, my advice, to you is, stay out of Alaska! In September if you hunt ten days, eleven of them will be in rain! That is just part of hunting in Alaska. The problem I have is with those who drop you in a camp with not enough supplies, and a guide who is akin to the Village Idiot, who can barely find his way home from the local barroom, and thinks he's still in that barroom, and continues to drink instead of hunting! If a blizard blows in, and eats all your time up, that is an act of God, and Guides are not God, though some think they are, they cannot be held resonsible for the weather! That is simply the chance you take in Alaska! There are plenty of high fence areas who will guarintee you a 100% harvest, but the Alaska outfitter can't dirrect the weather, but he CAN stay in the field the full time, waiting out the weather. If that time runs out, that again, is the chance you take!

Aside from what happened between cold zero and his guide, seems like about half of my field work time is spent waiting on the weather here in Alaska. Matter of fact, I'm waiting right now and looking at partly cloudy skies! Winds are bad, and the place we are trying to get to (Middleton Island) has one strip and the crosswinds are to strong for twin to land safely. So we wait. I don't know how many times I've been stuck in Cordova, Valdez, or Yakutat waiting on the weather. Been stranded all over the islands of the PWS for more week after pickup was due because of weather. Especially at Montague. Yep, I've been stuck at Icy Bay before too. By the way, the best Dungeness Crab in the world come out of Icy Bay.

It is what it is.