The United States Dept of Agriculture in an article entitled �Safety in Bear country: Protective measures and bullet performance at short Rang�, author William R Meehan and John Thilenius state on page 13 that � In general we found that bullet penetration decreased as striking velocity increased.� Where have I read this before? Was his name Randy Garret ? This is a great read. Take a peek.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152

Happy Hunting
30-30 Man

Hi 3030man
excellent article . sadly they didn't test 30 30 pmc starfire or fedral nosler partition loading . i beleive these loads are much better than handgun rounds like 357 or even 44 mag. they had neglected brenneke slugs too which are better choice than foster slugs.
regards
danny

Gentlemen,

I found that report a few years ago and had to do a bit of investigating on it. From what I learned, the two gentlemen were employees of the US Forest Service in SE Alaska, and also were gun enthusiasts. They ended up convincing the government to fund a project that allowed them to do a lot of shooting, chronographing, etc. If you read the report, there are several references to "the author's own equipment", such as chronographs.

Needless to say, these were two smart guys to be able to get paid to shoot...

Makes some interesting reading too.

Interesting read, I'll be sending a copy along to my father-in-law. I can't help but disagree with one little piece of it though. As you see in my signature I have a 300WinMag, the rifle I shoot most often and love dearly. The results of this article put it dead last in performance. I don't think that's deserved. With better bullets, like a NorthFork, FailSafe, X, A-Frame and such, wouldn't my beloved WinMag rank more towards the middle? With bullets designed to perform at Mag velocities it has to be better than 308.

I'm not saying that I'd pick up a 300 WinMag as my first choice, but LAST I just can't accept. If anyone here is equipped for it and feels so inclined, please duplicate the tests with a premium bullet. I'm curious to see how the 300WinMag rank changes.

I have an article published a while ago that compliled data from brown and grizzly kills. One set of data was how many shots did it take to finish off the bear. The data showed that the 375 HH took the least shots in the hands of sportsman and the 300 magnums took the most shots.

I will tell you when your in a tent and bear gets on top of you no gun is too big.I had bears try to get me in my tent one night.I switched from 338 win mag to 416 rem mag with 410 gr woodleigh bullets.I dont think a 50 bmg would be too big as long as its a carbine!

I read that report when it first came out. Its a pretty good analysis. The one thing most folks don't think about is, we're talking about protection from bears, not hunting them. When hunting them, bigger is better. For protection from them, its a different story. You aren't trying to kill the bear, your just trying to keep him from eating you.Here's my theory. Use a 12 gauge shotgun with OO or OOO buck. You aren't going to shoot until you know the bear is going to eat you. That means the bear is charging and is 100 feet or less,aimed at you.Unless you have nerves of steel, you will be shaking so bad you will have trouble hitting a barn with a rifle, let alone a bear. At that range with a shotgun, aiming is not critical. Aim at the head, as best you can and shoot. You may not kill him but you will get his attention and possibly blind him so he can't find you. After you change your britches you can come back and finish him off. I've killed a dozen or more Brown Bear, so I'm not a new guy at this. I carry a 12 Gauge 3" Rem. 870 with OOO buck when I'm in brush.

That 00 or 000 buck wont make it through a bears fat in the fall.There are alot of law enforcements that quit shooting buckshot because heavy coats were stopping it at 40 yards.I had friend who was 12 ga slug carrier .He finally had to shoot a bear grizzley with his shotgun.He shot it 12 times and it still ran off.He was charged another time after that.He converted to 458 win.I drilled a 300 pound black bear through both shoulders he still ran 75 yards without a heart or lungs.I also have friend who was charged while guiding in Ak .He let the guy shoot a bear at 100 yards 3 times with 358 Norma Mag and he shot it at their feet with 416 Taylor with 400 gr Barnes x bullets .He coverted to the 410 gr woodleigh bullets because they went way further.He said now after 9.5 foot coastal bear charge he uses 416 Taylor to caribou hunt in case of bears.

TJ,



The post I answered was about the ranking of cartidges, true, and I thought that the number of shots taken in hunting bears was somewhat relevant to the stopping of them. I am pleased that you recall what I did from that survey.



I read that many used to shoot elephants in the head. Is that an option for stopping bears with a rifle? If the bear were on all fours coming at you and the head were missed or grazed the bullet might still hit a vital spot?