I just spoke with an outfitter friend of mine in Mexico. He tells me that his bookings are down as much as 50% from last year and that he’s had several repeat clients – some of which having beer hunting with him for 15 or 20 years – canceling because they see Mexico as “unsafe.” This blows my mind because # 1 the only real trouble Mexico is having is along the U.S. Border and in Mexico City – not places hunters usually go anyway. And # 2 these are the same hunters that have no problem booking a hunt in Pakistan, Angola, or even Iran!
I’ve hunted Mexico for years and see it as no different as any other country in that I never felt unsafe with my outfitter. Truth be told, I found some of the places I’ve hunted in Mexico nicer than parts of my hometown.

Why do y’all think people buy into certain stories and not others? I mean why do some people see something about Mexico and say “That looks unsafe. I’m not going there!” yet see almost the same thing about a country like Zimbabwe and say “That country’s screwed but I know I’ll be safe with my outfitter.”

Thoughts?

Gayne,

Great questions. I hunted out of Hermosillo earlier this year. I too had heard of the hassles and dangers associated with Mexico.

I can say that bringing my rifle into Mexico was easier than Canada. The control agents were friendly and helpful, looking for a way to help you across. Cantrast with RSA, where the agents look for bribes. And crossing into Canada, they eyeballed us with suspicion, as if we were some sort of smugglers. Yep, Mexico has them all beat.

As far as safety, you nailed it. There was never a hint of the problems splashed in the news. It's not rocket science to figure that one out. And to those that are refusing to go into Mexico because of that, I can only say they are 1) Missing out on a good destination and 2) Making the hunts less crowded and less expensive for others.

Mexico's the anus of North America.. too bad.. the hunting that can be had there is second to none.. If you guys are thinking that Mexico is safe, you're sadly mistaken.

The things that go on there that the general public never hears or makes the news or the air would halt damn near ALL Mexican travel if it were on the nightly news.. for some unknown reason, the violence of Mexico is not mentioned en masse over here. If I could share with you what I get (newswise) at work, you would never step foot over there again. Its a God forsaken warzone.

I used to go down there every year to fish for sails and marlin in San Carlos (just south of Hermosillo).. no mas. I've coues hunted down there too. Would not step foot over there any longer..

If you feel safe over there, great.. But when you're on a Mexican video blog spot getting your head lobbed off with a dull pocketknife with 5 Mexican bastards standing behind you with bandanas covering their faces, you'll remember this post right before the lights go out.

Beautiful country with boundless beauty and endless natural resources, shit-headed spineless government running it.

Fuck Mexico (pardon the TX French).

I feel 10000000000X safer in Zimbabwe than in Mexico.. Hell, I'd feel safer in Iran..

quote:

for some unknown reason, the violence of Mexico is not mentioned en masse over here.

Scotty, have you been watching the same news I've been watching?

quote:

But when you're on a Mexican video blog spot getting your head lobbed off with a dull pocketknife with 5 Mexican bastards standing behind you with bandanas covering their faces, you'll remember this post right before the lights go out.

I think you have the wrong country and region of the world. I'm not saying you won't get your head chopped off in Mexico, only the type party you are referring too is far more likely in one of thise places you stated you'd feel safer.

quote:

I feel 10000000000X safer in Zimbabwe than in Mexico.. Hell, I'd feel safer in Iran..

That is a false sense of security my friend, I am not saying the shit is more likely to go down in one or the other, but if it does, I can get home from Mexico a hell of a lot easier than Zimbabwe or Iran.

NO MAS for this gringo!

Ya'll enjoy.

Brad

I am neck deep in this shit all day, everyday.

I can comment on this probably better than anyone on this site. PM sent

I agree. Avoid Mexico. We quit sending church aid groups there due to the violence in the border towns and lack of "rule of law." Zim is far safer.

Thanks for all the comments guys. I totally agree on the border regions

The crime is going on throughout Mexico. People are being robbed, kidnapped and killed. I used to be a hunting guide in Mexico, I only live 3 miles from the border. The U.S. state dept has warned American citizens not to go to Mexico. Any self-proclaimed expert that says any portion of Mexico is safe for U.S. travelers is either misinformed or just plain lying.

Where I used to guide dove hunters a group of whitewing hunters were robbed by machine gun totting bandits, that occurred about 125 miles south of the border. If you go you should realize that you are unnecessarily risking your life.

I live here, know people, have mexican gun permits, have lived here most of my life, know plenty of people, AND I CANCELED MOST OF MY HUNTING PLANS THIS YEAR.

Road blocks by criminals, people getting robbed on ranches, people getting kidnapped on ranches, etc etc.... And by the way mexico city is one of the safest places in Mexico right now, and its riddled with crime.....
Even a lot of tourist spots, that historically have been safe are not right now....

Mayheeco will get no more of my money!

Can you say FAILED STATE!!!!!



.

I am not willing to roll the dice. Wimp...maybe?

8 months ago, 110 miles south of the border:

When the hunters become the hunted
How nine Houston men were assaulted and robbed in the ranchlands of Mexico
By DUDLEY ALTHAUS
HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Nov. 23, 2009, 7:13AM

Mark Rand For the Chronicle

Here at Rancho Acazar, nine Houston hunters were attacked by marauders.
THRILL OF THE HUNT

Who goes:

At least 17,000 hunt in Tamaulipas state each year.

The prey:

White-wing doves, quail, other fowl.

The camp:

400 lodges offer hunters' quarters.

The cost:

$500 to as much as $6,000 for multi-day excursions.

MEXICO CITY — Like generations of Texans, nine Houston hunters traveled each autumn into northeastern Mexico's wildlife-rich ranchlands for a few uninterrupted days of shooting game, far removed from the workday world.

But that ended abruptly last month after the men were rounded up, robbed and terrorized by well-armed marauders.

The nine were wrapping up an afternoon of white-wing dove hunting about 100 miles south of the Rio Grande when a dozen men, armed with assault rifles, roared into the grain field in pickup trucks. The businessmen, some as old as 76, were forced to kneel on a gravel road or lie spread-eagle in the dirt for more than an hour.

The gunmen drank from the Texans' booze supply, kicked several of their victims, and hit several with rifles and shovels, repeatedly threatening them and the Mexican men assisting the hunt. Before driving away, the brigands confiscated cash, shotguns, wedding rings, watches and cameras worth nearly $50,000, the hunters estimate.

U.S. sportsmen have long enjoyed northern Mexico's hunting and fishing, spawning an industry that sustains dozens of lodges and feeds the incomes of thousands of ranchers and villagers.

Tourism to Mexico has sharply declined amid the economic downturn as well as worries over the H1N1 flu epidemic and narcotics-related violence that has claimed some 14,000 lives in three years. Despite operating in what many consider to be gangster country, the hunting largely has been immune from trouble — until now.

“They were like a bunch of cowboys, Wild West guys,” said Stephen Spencer, 72, a former Harris County constable and reserve sheriff who was in the Oct. 18 hunting party. “When a guy has a machine gun pointed at you, you do what they tell you to do.”

Mexican and U.S. officials, as well as hunting promoters and lodge owners, say the assault near Villa de Méndez — a village about 110 miles south of the border at McAllen — is an isolated incident. But the case raises the specter of alarm for the more than 17,000 hunters, many if not most from Texas, who flock each autumn to areas under the sway of the Zeta gunmen of the Gulf Cartel, the organized crime syndicate based in Tamaulipas state.

“I think they wanted us gringos gone and not coming down there,” said Mark Rand, 50, owner of a commercial printing company in Houston, who has hunted in northeastern Mexico for 21 years and says he lost $14,000 worth of equipment in the robbery. “I'm not going back.”

A U.S. consulate spokesman in Monterrey acknowledged receipt of the hunters' complaint about the robbery but said he couldn't discuss details of the case. Neither the U.S. consulate nor the Tamaulipas state government have received any similar reports, the officials said.

“People are negative on Mexico already, and people getting robbed is not going to help,” said Dean Putegnat, who owns Rancho Caracol, a hunting lodge near Lake Vicente Guerrero in Tamaulipas.
A new problem

Putegnat, whose family has hunted in Tamaulipas for decades and owns several lodges in the state, said drug-smuggling gangs have never shown any interest in hunters.

Putegnat's lodge Web site argues that reports and fears of Mexico's violence are overblown. “This is the first time in my whole life something like this has happened.”

On the other hand, with narcotics smuggling under pressure by the Mexican government's crackdown, cartel criminals and other gangs have diversified into kidnapping, extortion and other crimes in many communities.

The Houston men were hunting out of Rancho Acazar, a not-for-profit lodge that until recently hosted nearly 2,000 sportsmen a year. Founded in the late 1950s by partners from Texas, the lodge has closed indefinitely.

Business was off before the assault. Hunts were halved this year from the usual 18, and the number of hunters at each outing dropped by a third to fewer than 20.

Still, relations with the locals remained good. Hunters routinely passed out candy to children in Méndez and offered seasonal jobs to locals at the lodge and in the field.

“They usually don't mess with Americans,” said Jeff Van Wart, 49, a Houston investment banker whose 76-year-old father, Don, has been organizing hunts as one of nine partners in Rancho Acazar since the early 1960s. “That's what we were counting on.”

But this fall, Van Wart said, gunmen had demanded $1,000 to allow Acazar's guests to hunt the season. The hunters began noticing pickup trucks with men parked at the entrances to Méndez, as if watching who came and went. In early October, an Acazar hunting party was forced to a stop outside the village by an unidentified man with an assault rifle. The man angrily told them not to throw candy to the children in the street because it was dangerous.

The robbery took place a few weeks later.
The attack

That Sunday, the nine hunters had driven through Mexican army checkpoints on either end of Méndez about 4 p.m. on the way to the field. Split into two groups, they had been hunting about two hours and were getting ready to quit when the gunmen showed up near sunset. Some of the bandits wore what seemed like police uniforms, the hunters said, and carried military-style portable radios.

They gathered the entire hunting party, 20 all together, in a field: “I thought they were police officers at first,” said Rand, who was forced face down into the bed of a pickup truck, atop three Mexican lodge employees with a gunman's foot on his neck.

What sounded like a shovel chinked into the earth nearby. He was certain, Rand said, that graves were being dug. Men were smacked with rifles or shovels.

“I already made up my mind that if they lined us up like a firing squad they were going to have to shoot me in the back, because I was running,” he said.

The man apparently in charge of the gunmen — who spoke English — told Rand to “relax, calm down. The next time you hunt, don't hunt so close to town.”

After it was over, they were “whooping and hollering like an old Western,” Rand said. “It was like The Magnificent Seven.”

The hunters don't plan to return to Mexico any time soon, if ever.

“Until these guys disappear permanently, it isn't safe,” said Don Van Wart, 76, who acts as Rancho Acazar's president. “There isn't anything to stop this from happening again.”

quote:

Originally posted by Gayne C. Young:
I just spoke with an outfitter friend of mine in Mexico. He tells me that his bookings are down as much as 50% from last year and that he’s had several repeat clients – some of which having beer hunting with him for 15 or 20 years – canceling because they see Mexico as “unsafe.” This blows my mind because # 1 the only real trouble Mexico is having is along the U.S. Border and in Mexico City – not places hunters usually go anyway. And # 2 these are the same hunters that have no problem booking a hunt in Pakistan, Angola, or even Iran!
I’ve hunted Mexico for years and see it as no different as any other country in that I never felt unsafe with my outfitter. Truth be told, I found some of the places I’ve hunted in Mexico nicer than parts of my hometown.

Why do y’all think people buy into certain stories and not others? I mean why do some people see something about Mexico and say “That looks unsafe. I’m not going there!” yet see almost the same thing about a country like Zimbabwe and say “That country’s screwed but I know I’ll be safe with my outfitter.”

Thoughts?

Sounds to me like one should stay the heck away from Mexico!

The facts are that ALOT of the bad things that are happening in mexico are NOT being reported---even in the TX news. Talk to someone that lives in Laredo, McAllen or Brownsville and you will get a buttload of information a/b bad shit happening in mexico on a daily basis.
I'm already paying for the illegals that live here. Why would I want to risk my life and give them more money ?

i've guided mexico on and off since 1995
the thing that always made me uneasy
was the fact that EVERY ranch i was ever on down there had a 6 or 7000 ft dirt runway.
wonder why?
never had a situation on the ranches,but when the ranch owner shows up with his posse'
it was plain to see that they wern't cowboys
don't know if i would go back,but the wife made it easy for me and said NO

A few weeks ago, my husband booked a desert sheep and mule deer hunt through The Hunting Consortium with Luis Romero of Desert-Hunt in Hermosillo. So in December 2011 we will be in Mexico.

Kathi - Luis is a very good friend of mine. He's well connected, and he and his brother Braulio are first rate guys. I would feel very comfortable with Luis, no problem. Ask him to show you the video he has on his phone, of his uncle Hector Quailar's "trophy room". Weatherby award winner years ago, and the single most impressive collection I have EVER seen!!

By the way, his hunts are AWESOME!!! He has the single best Mule Deer hunt in all of Mexico.

Last time I was there the Federales stole our van and took sold it for cash.

Gayne,

I guess you haven't heard that there are people in Mexico growing and transporting drugs to be sold to our children here in the USA...

I expect within a couple years US citizens will be advised to stay out of the entire country.

Of course if we could just shoot everybody over the age of 16 who tests positive for drugs here the problem would solve itself by about 2020.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

Of course if we could just shoot everybody over the age of 16 who tests positive for drugs here the problem would solve itself by about 2020.

Rich
DRSS

Sometimes, when I read some of the things you post, I wonder if you aren't smoking something other than cigarettes

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Gayne,

I guess you haven't heard that there are people in Mexico growing and transporting drugs to be sold to our children here in the USA...

I expect within a couple years US citizens will be advised to stay out of the entire country.

Of course if we could just shoot everybody over the age of 16 who tests positive for drugs here the problem would solve itself by about 2020.

Rich
DRSS

How could they govern us if they were shot?

quote:

I guess you haven't heard that there are people in Mexico growing and transporting drugs to be sold to our children here in the USA...

Yes, and the kids buy it.

Thanks for all the inout guys even to those of you that took the topic and ran with it in a few different directions. Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Of course if we could just shoot everybody over the age of 16 who tests positive for drugs here the problem would solve itself by about 2020.
Rich
DRSS

Or you can legalize marijuana and take away the largest of the cash crops.

legalizing it would not do much. Of course Kalifornia might be able to balance their budget if they had a dollar an ounce tax on it and amnesty.

Back on topic: because of the drug issue it is DANGEROUS to set foot in Mexico, let alone hunt there.

I would (personally)sooner have sex with an African prostitute.

Close enough?

Rich
DRSS

Does anyone really think hunt bookings are down because people think Mexico is unsafe? My guess is the "Mexico is unsafe" argument is a comfortable one to make for those who whose economic fortunes have changed a bit over the last couple years. Much easier to tell your agent or outfitter, "I don't feel safe there now" than to say "Can't afford it this year".

Might be on to something there Tendrams

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Does anyone really think hunt bookings are down because people think Mexico is unsafe? My guess is the "Mexico is unsafe" argument is a comfortable one to make for those who whose economic fortunes have changed a bit over the last couple years. Much easier to tell your agent or outfitter, "I don't feel safe there now" than to say "Can't afford it this year".

I do. When you are closer to the situation you might have a different prospective. I have a lot of friends who live on the border and won't even think of going across. It used to be a common thing to go across and have dinner and drinks. The economy isn't helping but there is a definite danger and not worth the risk.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
legalizing it would not do much. Of course Kalifornia might be able to balance their budget if they had a dollar an ounce tax on it and amnesty.Back on topic: because of the drug issue it is DANGEROUS to set foot in Mexico, let alone hunt there.
Rich
DRSS

If you lived down here and had to explain to your hired men what black irrigation line was and to abandon their job and report to you when spotted because cartels have set up gardens on your forest permits and neighboring ranches deeded ground (a hired man for the neighbor was shot at last year by garden tenders)you may feel differently. Frankly, fighting this marijuana thing is a joke, our county sherriff estimates they catch about 30% of what is produced here (in our county) by the cartels. Two weeks ago when I was watching the blackhawks land in our meadows (300 miles north of the border) I had to wonder, is there another way?
Considering that repealing prohibition made the rate of bootlegged liquor plummet and left organized crime mostly to their other rackets, I wonder the effect in this case.
Again, I certainly don't have all the answers but in a conversation that suggests we shoot everyone over 16 that tries the stuff, I don't think I'm too out there or the guy that derailed the conversation.

I am sorry to have strayed further off topic though.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

I would (personally)sooner have sex with an African prostitute.

Close enough?

Rich
DRSS

See my above statement

Mexico is safe?

The nightmare scenario of Mexico is now being lived on a daily basis in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, across the border from Laredo, Texas.

Since July 16th of this year Nuevo Laredo has been under almost constant fire as Los Zetas and de Cartel del Golfo (CDG-Gulf cartel) battle for control of the Nuevo Laredo plaza and the Mexican military and federal police fight to contain and defeat both groups.

The fighting is often street to street between all three groups.

The municipal and state police have been pushed into their compounds and seldom venture out as they are outgunned, outmanned, outwitted and largely co-opted by the drug cartels.

The fighting is made more horrendous for the public by the fact that there is a complete news blackout on the fighting imposed on the local media by the criminal groups and some sources say perhaps the federal authorities as well as they seek to hide the damage from the rest of the nation.

Only the tip of the ice burg has been reported by the Mexican national media and the Laredo Morning Times, which absurdly enough, has prohibited Borderland Beat from referencing or posting any of its informative articles as it strictly enforces its copyright on its subscription only website.

One reads in the press of the improvised fountains of information provided through social networking via the Twitter and Facebook sites of the Nuevo Laredo city government. What is lost in the reporting is that the majority of the population of the city is too poor to own a computer or have internet access. Their cell phones only have the most basic service.

Residents speak of daily shootouts in all parts of the city. Casualties are largely unknown and may not be high but the insecurity has kept the level of fear at an unbearably high point. Especially hard hit has been the colonia Infonavit area in the southern sector of the city but all sectors have been affected.

Narco roadblocks and ambushes are occurring even in the central areas of the city close to the border between Guerrero and Degollado streets that lead to both international bridges.

Automatic gunfire and explosive detonations and the screeching of automobile tires keep the nerves on edge. To go to work or even leave the home from self imposed curfews to buy groceries often takes heroic efforts.

To travel on the streets in an automobile at night is a high risk invitation to a carjacking.

Relatives on the U.S. side of the border are warned not to enter Nuevo Laredo. Don’t worry, we’ll get by is the stoic response of many residents to offers of help.

Government spokesmen in Mexico City speak of the situation in Nuevo Laredo and other parts of northern Mexico as a show of desperation and weakness by the drug cartels in their efforts to maintain market share in the trafficking of drugs.

Many locals interpret the same situation as a show of terrorist domination and power by the drug cartels and the inability of the government to contain the instability and violence.

The pride of Mexican sovereignty has begun to crack among the civilian population in the northern states caught in the crossfire who see that their government fundamentally cannot ensure the safety of their families. Some people already hint at the longing for intervention of some sort by the U.S. to stop the violence.

The rule of law as we know it in the U.S. does not exist in Nuevo Laredo. The proud, innocent residents of this city, which are the vast majority, do not deserve this fate
__________________

Last Monday 9 people were shot while waiting for a bus less than 5 miles from my home. In 2009 there were approximately 1812 shooting victims in Chicago who survived.

When we were going to Zimbabwe in 2000, the farm invasions were just getting started and the news was painting a very scary picture. Our friends and relatives tried to talk us out of going, but we went and had a great time. We returned in 2003, 2005 and 2007 and never had a problem.

We spoke with Luis Romero at the S.C.I. Convention and are really looking forward to hunting with him. Wish us luck!!!


July 11, 2010 | 1 comment 258 Public School Children Were Shot in Chicago Last Year



Two Hundred and Fifty Eight Public School Students Shot in Chicago Last Year


The numbers are staggering: last year in Chicago, 258 public school students were shot, on their way to or from school, according to a report in the New York Times. Of these, 32 were shot fatally, as they made their way through gang-infested territory and drug wars.

Alarmed by these statistics, the school district conducted a survey to identify the next 250 victims most likely to be shot. As a result, since last December, each of those 250 students has had a professional advocate who is available 24/7, and whose job is to keep their student safe, in school, and on track to graduation. That can mean many different things: driving the student home from school, finding him a place to live if he is homeless, or spending time with him in the hospital. More than one of these advocates has sat next to a young person in a hospital emergency room after bullets ricocheted through his charge's body.

Having taught in a school district where one section of the students, from East Palo Alto in California, routinely had to deal with the death by shooting of friends and family members, I can say that these kids are tough, and they learn to deal with it. But a kind of despair settles over them, and it shouldn't be this way.

Experts are watching the Chicago program carefully, since it represents the most intensive safety intervention ever tried in big-city schools.

"I don't know of anything like this either in scope or scale or intensity," said Michael Casserly, the executive director of the Council of Great City Schools. "It is strikingly well-planned at the strategic level, backed with really unique data and followed all the way down to the kid level with 24/7 coverage. I don't know anything in the country quite like it."

For many of these students, not only do they not have the support structure of family and friends, but family and friends may be hurting, not helping, if they are even in their lives at all. High-risk students are often alone as they face homelessness, gang activity, drug abuse and school failure. Having an advocate to turn to can be life-saving.

Success! Monique Bond, spokeswoman for the Chicago Public Schools, said that attendance was up and suspensions and misconduct were down, among students with advocates. Systemwide, 218 students were shot this school year, 40 fewer than last year, with 27 of the shootings being fatal, compared to 32 last year.

Obviously, just one death is one too many, but it seems that kids in Chicago are a little bit safer as they get to school every day. Kudos to the Chicago advocates.

Chicago is apretty good comparison to Ol' Mayhico. Both are gun free utopias! Chicago and Mex are Governed by criminals.

You can kid yourself into anything, BUT once you get jacked or kidnapped it's too late.

Mexico IS a failed state it is ruled by Narco Terrorists just as Colombia was. You can believe anything you want. Hunting is cheaper in Mex just as it is in Zim...........



.

Here is your Reality Check for the day.
Drugs are a convenient escape from reality.
Drugs are a way to make millions of dollars.
Of course, you have to shoot people every now and then who threaten your business model.
If you have a "Pot Patch" you obviously have to shoot anyone who gets too close, to protect your investment.
That now seems to be most of Mexico.

What was the other question?

Ah yes, I DO believe we need to announce public executions of anyone we catch dealing drugs. Recidivist rates for dealers released from prison is about 99%.

I have this old fashioned notion that people always have choices. Allow them to make their choice, and then always hold them responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Off topic, yes. But I figured you might want to know why it is not safe hunting in Mexico these days.

React as you wish...

Rich
DRSS

1. I don't care who grows what or shoots who in Mexico. My backyard is different, I bet we can agree on that.
2. I thought we were shooting 16 year olds that have pot in their system. Now we have changed to dealers? I can go along with that.
3. I don't care what they do to fight it. And if shooting everyone works Im all in. I do know this, the current tactic is BS and now is making things dangerous for people like myself and those who work for me.
4. I appreciate your opinion, and you may be right, I do however feel it is easy to have such bravado so far from the action. Similar to the easterners and bay area types that shrug their shoulders when wolves wreak havoc on good people's livlehood in your neck of the woods.