Good morning All!

Not a hunting report, but I opted to post here as this seems the home of the best South American expertise!

The She-Wolf and I are booked into Argentina this coming May and I’m mulling over my available caliber options. I’ve got my own opinions (hell…who doesn’t?), but I thought I’d throw the question out to this austere body and see what words of wisdom were forthcoming.

Jane’s .270 Win will go along (that’s a given) so my options are .25-’06 Rem, .338-’06 AI and .375 H&H. The .25-‘06 loves 120 grain Partitions and is an old friend that I have utter faith and confidence in. The .338-06 will do the job with either 210 or 250 NPs, I just ain’t sure I want to drag a wildcat down there. Like the .25, the .375 is my old warhorse and a veteran of three safaris with sable, kudu and eland to its credit.

The .25 might be a bit light in the projectile department, the .338-06 might be a touch short of range and the .375 might have me a touch over-gunned. I ain’t buyin’ nothin’ else, so don’t recommend a new whizzum or the like; nor will I rent guns from the outfitter (who wants to play with someone else’s toys?).

And your vote and reasoning is…?

It will depend on the area you will be hunting.
For example in southern Argentina you will need a long range caliber but in la Pampa not.

But also what is long range ?? 200 yards, 250 ??
300 !! ???? you can do it with your 338-06 and 210 pills !!!

Despite the 25-06 being enough don't use it. It's not legal (6,5mm minimum) and is not enough for a difficult shot at a big stag. They will not be always broad side for you.

What problem taking a wildcat down there ??
Take the 270 and the 338-06 and don't look back.

If your baggage is lost and your ammo with it, take the 338-06 dies in your hand bag but I think is maybe too much hassle.

Where and with whom you will be hunting ???

L

Lorenzo,

Outstanding evidence of why I spend time around AR! I had heard nothing regarding a 6.5mm caliber floor, although I think it wise.

The 120 grain .257 penetrates well in my experience, but to employ it on an animal of this size requires the patience (and the opportunity!) to take an unobstructed shot at the engine room. As we know, the Red Gods don't always allow us the pleasure of a motionless, broadside shot!

Regarding wildcats, I'll admit that it's only my ignorance and paranoia that causes me concern. Too many stories (how many of them substantiated I don't know!) have been in the wind for too long...although I'll admit that when I asked this question of the outfitter he didn't blink...

Excellent point regarding "long" range. My days of shooting past 300 yds are over...I've got the equipment and still have the ability, I no longer have the desire. 200-250 yards is about red-faced maximum for me anymore...more hunting and less shooting!

We're booked with Estancia Alicura down south; big country from the look of it. Knee pads and shooting sticks are both going to find their way into my kit. No handloading gear though; that's a hassle I don't need!

Thanks so much for the pleasure of your response!

Mark

Mark,
You will be hunting in a beatiful place.
Do you flyfish?? take a rod just in case you bag your trophy early.

Zero you rifle for 200 yards just in case. If your stag it is a liitle far away you always can aim to his top shoulder.

A friend of mine shot last year two stags in that area (south) with a 35 whelen without problem (average distance 200 yards).

Good luck

Lorenzo

Mark
For hunting in Alicura do you need your 338-06, not less between yours rifles for a sure hunting.
In the south of Argentina (Alicura are in the south) the distances of shot at red deer will be short or long 200 or 300 meters or more.
Hector

Lorenzo,

Both my wife and I fly-fish...in fact she's probably more excited about the angling opportunities than the hunting! You can rest assured that we'll do our best to drag some beautiful fish from the river!

As your friend certainly proved, the .338-06/.35 Whelen class of cartridges do wonderful work when kept within reasonable range limitations.


Senhor Roveda,

Thank you as well for your contribution. Based on my study to-date and reinforced by the feedback so far, a shooting opportunity at between 200 and 300 yards seems reasonable. Beyond that distance I'll simply consider it a VIEWING opportunity (followed by a crawling opportunity!).

Thank you both for your replies. Best of luck and good hunting!

Mark

The 33806 is ideal for the mountains where most shots are at long distance in windy conditions ,the 375hyh is very common and you are not overgunned with 270grains points ,and is just ideal in LA PAMPA where you hunt in the bush ,i used my cz 375hyh in the mountains too .Juan

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
It will depend on the area you will be hunting.
For example in southern Argentina you will need a long range caliber but in la Pampa not.

But also what is long range ?? 200 yards, 250 ??
300 !! ???? you can do it with your 338-06 and 210 pills !!!

Despite the 25-06 being enough don't use it. It's not legal (6,5mm minimum) and is not enough for a difficult shot at a big stag. They will not be always broad side for you.

What problem taking a wildcat down there ??
Take the 270 and the 338-06 and don't look back.

If your baggage is lost and your ammo with it, take the 338-06 dies in your hand bag but I think is maybe too much hassle.

Where and with whom you will be hunting ???

L

218Bee,

First of all, please let me know in advance of your arrival, I'll be happy to receive you and have a little chat with a foreign hunter, always a pleasure.

As Lorenzo,my friend from across the pond said, I agree 100% with his answer.

Your 338-06 will be here at home no matter where you choose to hunt, mountain range or bush

Good hunt!

Dr. Pozzi,

Thank you for contributing...and I'm not surprised that you'd mention the flexibility of the time-honored three seven five. Over the years my .375 ammo has all been built around 300 grains (both solids and soft) but now I might finally have a reason to delve into 270 grain options!

Gustavo,

Thank you as well for contributing and for your invitation as well...I'll certainly keep it in mind.

We seem to be developing quite a concensus for the .338-06, and somehow I'm not surprised! A very capable cartridge well suited to the application. I may have to overcome this reluctance about traveling with a wildcat after all...

Thank you both again for your assistance.

Mark

Mark, let me know if I can be of further assistance for any travel or permit-related matter.

Remember, we down here welcome hunters!

Of course, the 338-06 now domesticated, is an excellent choice for Cervus Elaphus, no matter the distance or terrain.

While me experience is bar-none with this cartridge I guess that a 210gr Barnes TSX, or Nosler Accubond or any other well-behaved bullet will do the job once and forever.

Red Stags are no particularly though, as some african plains game (I can attest to this), and my experience with the 300WinMag stoked with 180gr Barnes (X, XLC or TSX) was always a one-shot business.

I'm positive as the 338-06 as being a better, more flexible choice than the .375HH

Maybe my friend Dr Pozzi won't agree, but having been there in the mountains of la Patagonia, witnessing first hand some friends carrying the venerable .375HH made my mind. It's not the best choice for the occasional long range shot.

So, if possible bring the 338-06 and don´t look back.

Even the .25-06 Rem with a good 120 gr (again, Barnes) at an honest 3200fps will do a disaster on Stag

I tend to agree with Juan, but I´m a known fan of the venerable 375 and the 270 grainers. The advice about bringing a set of reloading dies is very good, only the dies because anyone of us can help you to reload your ammo. The 338-06 caliber is not common here, if entirely adequate for the task intended. Perhaps it´s possible to neck size only a 30-06 case with a 338 die and form a 338-06 but I never tried it.
Like Gustavo said, it´s always fun to meet an AR member. Let us know your arrival and perhaps we could call Afrikaander as well.
Regards

Gentlemen,

Let me begin by saying that what I've seen demonstrated here certainly lends credence to your reputation for hospitality!

As I mentioned at the outset, I had already formed an opinion about a caliber choice but wasn't prepared to let my own arrogance get me into trouble. As my late father used to observe, "Boy, we don't ALL need to invent the wheel!"...hence my post here.

My old .25-'06, dear friend that it is, just seemed a tad on the light side. Given proper circumstances I have no doubt that the .25 could kill a stag very dead but the reality is that a "proper circumstance" may not present itself. Great tool...wrong job...the .25-'06 is out.

The .338-'06 is a fine cartridge and will certainly handle any shot presentation over reasonable ranges. Over the years, my velocities have gotten slower, my bullets have gotten larger and heavier, and my shooting ranges have gotten shorter. If I take the .338-06, I figure that out to 250 yards any red stag is in jeopardy. In the decision-making progress, it's the sentimental favorite...

I'll have to give the .375 a test with 270 grain projectiles, as it doesn't even know that anything but 300 grain slugs exist! Regardless, if I had to leave tomorrow this is the rifle I'd take and not give it a second thought. Without a doubt, it is my no-brainer choice.

And therein lies the beauty of my dilemna...I'm NOT leaving tomorrow. I've got better than six months to load and shoot and ultimately make a final decision. In fact, our own deer season starts in just over four weeks...a local side-by-side comparison sounds like fun (either that or just a handy excuse!).

To each of you, my thanks for your opinions and your hospitality. I'm sure we'll chat again before May '07!

Siempre con cuidado,

Mark

300 win mag with 200 grain trophy bonded does it all every time. If you get a European made with a single set trigger you can adjust it down to a pound and a half for long range shots.

Had a great hunt at Alicura last April-Danny,Boris, Paco and Andres are great hosts and guides and will do well by you. I used the Estancia's Beretta Mato in 30-06 with Remington 165 grain Corelokts. The rifle was fine(Nikon scope)but the Corelokt's were softer than I like on an animal that size. I think the 338-06 with 210 grain Nosler Partitions would be perfect. Don't forget the sticks! If you finish early, you definitely want to fish the Limay and go on the Seven Lakes drive

Cowboy,

It's been a number of years since I sold my last 300 WM, but I'd certainly agree on your recommendation otherwise. I was always a fan of the .300/200 grain combo.

Westport,

Outstanding! I'd love to hear details, see photos and discuss your overall travel experience (if you're amenable!). Did you spend anytime in B.A. or just pass thru? I was teasing Jane (aka She-Wolf) that we might have to take tango lessons before we go, as we were considering spending an evening or two in B.A. either down or back!

As an old Sako fan I expect that I could get my arms around the Mato, but this just seems like the perfect chore for the .338-'06 AI. Good to know that there's a workable "plan B" available if something cratered with my toy and Jane decided not to share her .270!

If you wish to share more of your experience, we could continue it here or off-line via PM or e-mail...your choice!

Thanks to all,

Mark

It will be a pleasure to meet you down here, Mark, altogether with Ricardo (nainital), Gustavo, Juan and a couple more of us!

As said, I think both 33806 and 375H&H will do the job, of course if you do your own... my advice is to bring the one you feel most confident with, surely you will resolve any hunting situation so as to put yourself at a suitable shooting distance ...

BTW, isn´t stalking what makes hunting so wonderful ???

I still remember the first advice I was given on the field by my mentor, the guy who taught me everything I know about hunting (and I am still learning - and thankfully will ever be ).... I was trying to decide wheter to take either the 30 06 or the .300 WM to the mountains ... he simply told me "take the 30 06 and get closer! That´s what really matter about hunting, to accept the challenge and try to defeat the prey (deer was also my case) better senses"

Regards,
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Afrikaander:

BTW, isn´t stalking what makes hunting so wonderful ???

Martin,

Well said, well said...

There was a time in my mis-guided youth when I believed that the taking of game at longer ranges (300+) was the "ne plus ultra" of sport. Over the years I've abandoned such endeavours, much preferring stalking to sniping.

As I've told others, these days I hunt a lot more but shoot a lot less! As evidence, I've been hunting part of the last two seasons with a flintlock...which requires the ranges of bowhunting and adds haphazard ignition! My respect for my predecessors grows each time I'm afield with that rig...

We're really looking forward to visiting your country. The photos and video we've reviewed are beautiful, yet I doubt that they do justice to the area.

I'll make no promises as schedules aren't at all firm yet, but we'd love to meet and visit if possible.

Best of luck to all,

Mark

Dear friends ,Capt.Gustavo,Ricardo and Martin altgouh i carried my cz i agree thats too heavy thats why i have a custom Mauser with a moggia barrel of 20 inches made for me for hunting Taruca ,thats my muntain rifle ,and ill have another ultraligth in 270.Last week end i dispatched 4 cows with it at 400 mts with 150 grains federal soft points Cristian was with me 10 shots i filed went throug the bodies lung area we will inspect carcass when you came i tested it because a lot of so called experts said that a 20 inches barrel 300 is only a 3006 .On the other side it will be nice to make a barbecue in my farm with all the members of AR we can meet ,what do you think .In the near future Martin will put here the requeriments to be member of the dogo circle .Juan

218
I would definitely recommend some time in BA on your trip. We spent the nite there on the way in which was very welcome after the long flight. Then spent three days after our hunt. Two days on the way back might have been sufficient but do take a tour and see a tango show! Enjoy Patagonia, it is a beautiful place.
BTW I used an -06 with 165gr Barnes TSX, just had to use a 100 year old cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
218
I would definitely recommend some time in BA on your trip. We spent the nite there on the way in which was very welcome after the long flight. Then spent three days after our hunt. Two days on the way back might have been sufficient but do take a tour and see a tango show! Enjoy Patagonia, it is a beautiful place.
BTW I used an -06 with 165gr Barnes TSX, just had to use a 100 year old cartridge!

Blacktailer,

Outstanding! Any recommendations about what to see, where to eat, where to stay?

I expect we'll do something similar...only just the opposite. Spend a couple of days in B.A. on the way down, then skedaddle back to the world after our hunt is over.

Any info you might share would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Mark