Very well done Aziz.

You continue to do the strange, interesting and original.

Keep it up and ignore the peanut gallery.

Regards,

GH

quote:

Originally posted by cooper325:
Scott King,

Thought that you would be too busy discussing Pebble and offshore drilling in Alaska to spend any time on this thread!

Driving game is fine but you may have overlooked the fact that the wolf hunting methods discussed in this thread depend critically on radio communications and would be not be considered "fair chase" by very many hunters. (As I'm sure you know, radio communications of the type discussed here are illegal in Alaska.) Obviously the method is legal in Ontario but that doesn't make it fair chase. If you think that only an "animal rights" person would find it objectionable, guess again. I hunt and trap and I don't know very many persons who object to fair chase hunting or clean trapping and I don't know any hunters who would consider the use of radios in communicating the location of game to be part of fair chase hunting.

I applaud anyone who can either call in wolves or hunt them "fair chase" when the pelts are good. It is tough and that's why most wolves that are shot in AK are taken by guided Outside hunters and are incidental in Fall hunts. (When the pelt is of little value except as a wall hanging.)

SGraves155,

Did you overlook the fact that "bone piles" are an essential part of keeping wolves in the area so that they can be driven by the radio and GPS equipped beater to the radio equipped shooter?

Cooper325, has a valid point here and I think that it is well worth consideration for several reasons. I do notice that many of those who do not agree with him and/or mock and denigrate him live where there are no Wolves and have not been for centuries. He, however, lives, as I do, where they are quite commonplace and has actual experience with them.

I have mixed feelings on this issue and tend to think that it is one that should be decided by the citizens of a given area,Ontario in this instance. We had a terrible hullabaloo here in B.C. over aerial Wolf shooting some 25 years ago, when many foreign "environmentalists" decided, as they often do, to tell we BC citizens how to manage our wildlife.

So, I can see his point and admire his courage in speaking out against such "popular" drivel as stating that Wolves kill for joy, are scum and all the other bullshit that some "outdoorsmen" spew. The ONLY animal, that kills for "joy" is "Homo Sapiens"......

We must ALWAYS been VERY aware of the impact of our statements, actions and photos upon the much large non-hunting public as they will decide what hunting will remain available to us. I favour scientifically-based predator control and agree that more GOs should offer predator hunts than currently do, however, I also think that comments such as Cooper's are an indication of what lies ahead for hunters and thus should be carefully considered without "attacking the messenger".

this hunt report is getting sidetracked.....

Cooper325 may or may not have a valid point.

I'm not sure, I haven't thought enough about it and researched the issues enough to comment.

What I am very sure about though is that Cooper325 is perfectly entitled to start his own thread about this issue, as well as any other, in his own thread on an appropriate forum.

I am also fairly sure that the etiquette is such that one does not foul up another man's efforts at a hunt report, we all like reading hunt reports, if it is at all avoidable.

My last comment would be that if concern for the sensitivities of the general public is at issue, such comments would be better directed at some of the denizens of the PF and their views.

Let us have a thread on wolf hunting in the Canadian forum please as I am sure many of are interested, let us just not hijack this one.

Regards,

GH

I am a CANADIAN commenting on an issue in MY country and in a region thereof where my immediate forbears have lived since the 18thC., one of my grandfathers was born close to there and a number of us have worked in Ontario, me included. So, perhaps, you might want to realize that what we CANADIANS choose to say on resource issues in OUR country, OR, what some of our American neighbours also choose to say is not only relevant, but, is highly appropriate on this thread or any other concerning hunting in North America.

As to the PF, the banter that happens there is a different issue than concerns of this type and dragging that into a discussion of predator hunting/control here in Canada is a waste of time and energy.

Nobody here has hijacked this thread, people have different views on the situation and I happen to find Cooper's comments worth consideration.

I was under the impression the rubric was sufficient to make clear that my post was not aimed at any person in particular.

In the interests of adhering to my own principles, viz

quote:

I am also fairly sure that the etiquette is such that one does not foul up another man's efforts at a hunt report, we all like reading hunt reports, if it is at all avoidable.

I shall now bow out.

I have not commented on this issue because the opinion of those expressing an aversion to the use of radios and GPS is of no importance to me. If they have a problem with the methods used they should not consider this hunt, my purpose is to make everyone on the board aware of this hunting opportunity and give the details of my hunt so others can decide for themselves if they want use this outfitter.

If someone has a problems with the ethics of the hunt complain to the Ontario game department where this method is legal and used also by the game department. If you are passionate about it have the law changed, until that time I will do things according to my ethics and will never force my opinion of what I think is right upon anyone.

In my mind there is a lot more to a hunt than killing an animal which makes it interesting and worth pursuing. The most important are going to an area I have never hunted before, I enjoy new methods of hunting as long as they are legal. I enjoy my interaction with the people I am hunting with, I love to hear their stories, I do not pre judge people I enjoy their experiences. For me it is about the terrain, the methods, the experiences and knowledge of the guides, the fellow hunters in camp, and the anticipation.

With all the equipment and electronics the success on this wolf hunt is about 35-40%.

Overall the experience of hunting in northern Ontario with people like Peter Martin, Ryan and JF was outstanding. If I had come back without a wolf it would not have diminished my experience or pleasure of the hunt, so to me this criticism just shows the narrow view of hunting that the critics have. If they like to do it a certain way more power to them, but please don’t condemn others who pursue a legal method of hunting because it somehow does not conform to their standards.

Aziz

I think that you and Ghubert are reading a little more into what Cooper and I are saying here than is intended. There is no criticism, actual or implied, of you or your hunt or the Ontarians who hosted you in my comments. I also do not see this in Cooper's posts.

It is very difficult to explain what is happening in Canada in respect of social attitudes concerning many aspects of life to foreigners who may have never been here or perhaps have only hunted here a few times. At present, throughout North America, the "environmentalist" movement is largely "anti-hunting", except where aboriginals are concerned and we face this daily in our attempts to preserve hunting.

Consequently, some of us may well tend to be rather strict in our approach as we know what is happening locally and what is a "target" for the international "antis". An example is that an old friend of mine, now very elderly, was the Director of the B.C. Fish and Wildlife Branch and he and I have spent hours discussing the use of helicopters in hunting alpine game.

There are places in B.C, where, in my estimation and his, the use of carefully regulated helicopter access to certain mountains would be FAR less ecologically intrusive than the current use of "spotter planes" to locate game, horses left on the range all winter and spring for use in transport to said game and so on and so forth. Yet, if this were suggested to the general public, the fertilizer would hit the ventilator and the outcry would be heard from Vancouver to Moscow.

So, a concern by we who live with this every day is appropriate and I do think that Cooper's posts are valid as "talking points" in that respect. That's all and congrats on your "Woof".

quote:

Originally posted by cooper325:
In what sense is this "hunting"? Is there any aspect of the hunt that you would consider "fair chase" or is it just target practicd at moving targets?

Dewey if you don't consider the above comment criticism you are a leathery character.

Cooper lists its location as "Interior Alaska." Yes, there are wolves in Interior Alaska but to assume it,(Cooper) has any actual wolf experience is a leap. Additionally, refering to a completely anonymous poster posting contrary views in the improper forum and thread as courageous is generous beyond deserving.

As I and others have mentioned before, it seems unfortunate that the members of AR use a Hunting Report Forum to critisize other members methods of hunting. There has been and still remains adequate venues to debate issues, as has been mentioned before, perhaps the Canadian Hunting Forum could be useful in this case.

It is perhaps hypocritical of me to continue this derailment of Aziz's report. I apologize and will refrain from further off topic replies.

At least on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I am a CANADIAN commenting on an issue in MY country and in a region thereof where my immediate forbears have lived since the 18thC.,

Man, oh man is your song and dance routine getting old. Where's the yawn icon when you need it?

Aziz, nice report of a hunt that appeals greatly to me, as I commented earlier.....I guess the part where you mentioned the success rate of 35-40% doesn't matter to the naysayers.

Mostly what I see above (and no doubt will see below) seems to avoid the whole concept of fair chase hunting and in fact it is explicitly rejected. I drop in on the site now and then and have gotten useful information and learned a bunch. But until I saw the description of this hunt, I had assumed that "fair chase" hunting was a generally understood and accepted concept. I stand corrected: for almost all of the hunters above what is legal in a given location is the only thing that matters. If it means finding a place in the world where high fence hunting on 10 acres is legal, that's an acceptable way to hunt. If it is legal somewhere, then using helicopters to drive game is just part of a new hunting experience in that location.

Many of my friends hunt. (I have for 60 years.) Wolves are part of the surroundings here. Guns are in almost every household. (When the local school play had a scene of a girl with a gun, the prop that was used was a real pump action 12 gauge.) So I am not an anti. What I am is someone who wants hunting to continue long after I do. I am pretty sure that endorsing and promoting a concept like "fair chase" is important in the way in which hunting survives.

At the risk of further hijacking this thread......I understand your point(as does nearly everyone on this site) and respect the fact that you've hunted for 60 years, BUT do you not agree that there are varying degrees of "fair chase"?

I don't happen to be one of them, but there's plenty of folk that enjoy high-fence hunts or sitting in a permanent, heated blind watching deer on the dirt road, etc, etc.

If you enjoy being a purist, then only hunt with a spear or long bow. Guys who profess that one way of hunting is more ethical than others are "the enemy within". I would offer that it's the minority of hunters who are "yahoos" intent on killing game anyway they can.

And finally, this recurrent and tedious theme that foreign hunters are "raping" the Canadian wilderness is inaccurate at best.......

Cooper, I respect both your opinion and hunting experience, I have 50+ years in western and northern Canada, but, not much in Ontario. I take your point and would enjoy a discussion concerning this issue, however, perhaps a new thread on the Canadian section might be best, given the post by Aziz?

No offence intended here, I wish there were more like you, as hunting by anyone other than "status" aboriginals is VERY imperiled here in BC and, I am informed, across Canada. That said, Aziz does have the right to post his hunt report here without it being hijacked although I know that was/is not your intent.

Anyhoo, give it some thought, as the Canadian section is not very busy and could use a good thread to liven things up. I think that AR can be a major benefit to preserving "fair chase" and hunting in general and hunting in BC/Canada is now so endangered that anything we can do on AR to help save it is well worth the effort and the patience one must have with some aspects of the issue.

I had not seen this hunt report.Welcome to Canada,Aziz! Wolf hunting is something I might try in the future.I talk to someone who hunts wolf around his hunting and trapping camp and it is something like you said.He gets meat from the butcher and puts it in the middle of a frozen lake and uses a call.He says it is extremly difficult to get one because they only come out at dark.I have seen some wolves mounted from northern quebec and I was really surprised to see how big they can grow.I would like to shoot one some time and get a rug mount.The one you shot has a very nice colored coat.In the 14 years I hunted caribou in northern Quebec,I have not seen a wolf,but that doesn't mean they are not there.I heard stories from other caribou hunters who have run into them.Seeing a wolf pack in the canadian north would be a treasure itself.

To whom it may concern,

I personally know Aziz and have discussed hunting and life situations with him many times.
I can say from our friendship that he is one of the finest men morally that I have ever met.
He is a hunter not a shooter!!!! He would much rather go home without a trophy than hunt one unethically. He truely enjoys the experience of hunting a new location. He has so many trophies from all over the world that he has nothing to prove to himself or anyone. Knowing him the way I do it raises my hackles that someone would suggest that he was unethical. Aside from a great hunter he is a great friend and will go the last mile to help a friend. We havn't shared a campfire yet but we have plans for that in the future and I can't think of anyone
better to share one with.

hawkeye47

Since I have hunted with Peter and Ryan did take a huge Wolf, I feel that I do have a right to chime in on this Hunt Report.

This thread has been hi jacked and there should be a separate thread opened in the Canada section to discuss the Methods, Morals and Equipment used for Wolf Hunting in Ontario.

This is not the correct place for that.

Hawkeye/Cold Zero, well said and Aziz has always impressed me as a gentleman and one well worth listening to. I think that the suggestion re: another thread is the best option here.

That said, I do not see any real insult to him in the posts made thus far, I certainly did/so not intend my comments in this respect and prefer to ignore anyone who would post such remarks.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I do notice that many of those who do not agree with him and/or mock and denigrate him live where there are no Wolves and have not been for centuries. He, however, lives as I do, where they are quite commonplace and has actual experience with them.

In Vancouver? The largest city in the province? Fairly removed, for a fairly long time I should add, of having wolves run freely in the streets.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I am a CANADIAN commenting on an issue in MY country and in a region thereof where my immediate forbears have lived since the 18thC

Isn't it your mother that was born an American? In Idaho?

Seems a little off to me, if you are denigrating the birthplace of one of your forebearers so vehemently.

Congrats on your wolf! It is a beauty! I have caught well over 100 wolves trapping and snaring, but yet to catch one of that color!

Anyone that has hunted knows how hard it is to "actually" hunt wolves, so methods used here were legal and got the job done! Congrats again!