A friend in the lab is performing some Snow Leopard DNA analysis for the Seattle Zoo and we (as always) began discussing the true economic contributions to research funding of hunting certain species. I of course am a firm believer in the "if the species can be hunted in a sustainable fashion, then the net gain of research money is always the way to manage" theory.

So the discussion came down to how much and how many people would really pay to go on a quality guided snow leopard hunt?

Have any of you legally hunted them? If so, would you mind divulging the prices you paid?

Others, what would you pay? Relatively speaking of course, would you pay more than for an elephant? a lion?

As usual, I am very curious to your responses....

Thanks!

IV

IV,

I think it almost goes without saying that such a hunt would cost more than an elephant or a lion hunt. A hunt for snow leopard would absolutely tickle the fancy of those guys who primarily hunt Asiatic species rather than African and we all know what they can spend to hunt Argalis. If the trophy were importable into Europe and the US (increasing the demand for the hunt), I have a hard time believing that a Snow Leopard hunt would go for anything less than what is regularly paid for an Argali hunt (say $40K)...probably quite a bit more.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

JTG: I would think they would bring more than an elephant also....

thanks for the reply.

IV

Isn't the Snow Leopard listed on the Endangered Species List?

I have heard rumours that some permits were available at one point in Mongolia. Don't know the current situation.
Seems like a species that raises emotions since it is cute...
Considering people are willing to pay $200,000 at auction for a bighorn ram, I don't see a snow leopard hunt going for much less.

I would be interested as to how they are hunted...dogs? (live)bait?
I wonder how many are popped by Mongol herdsmen protecting livestock...

According to the US Fish & Wildlife Service:
http://ecos.fws.gov/species_profile/servlet/gov.doi.spe...sProfile?spcode=A041
Leopard, snow
Uncia (=Panthera) uncia
Family: Felidae
Group: Mammals

Current Status: Endangered
Status Details

Endangered

The Snow leopard was first listed on March 28, 1972. It is currently designated as Endangered in the Entire Range. Within the area covered by this listing, this species is known to occur in: Central Asia. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Foreign (International Affairs) is the lead region for this entity.


How this listing effects hunts originating in other countries is beyond my political knowledge.

Yes, the Snow Leopard is currently CITES listed. Herdsman do kill them when they threaten livestock but the main threat (as always) is loss of habitat. Poaching is somewhat of a concern because a black market pelt can bring HUGE sums of cash in Europe.

But, just as funds to combat elephant poaching were raised through hunting, I think the conservation goal should be towards a huntable population. That would be a very difficult task of course.

Some conservationists will argue "Does every species have to be hunted to be worthy of conserving?" And to that I often tell them that in a perfect world, no. But, we don't live in a perfect world, thus if a sustainably managed resource can be economically beneficial (hunting fees and guide fees), people will conserve it (right, wrong or indifferent.)

To mee it seems like a win-win. Conservationists get their research money and protections, hunters that are willing to pay, get what I think would be quite an adventure.

JMO!

IV

I've seen some footage of the Snow Leopard and I bet the hunt would be brutal given the terrain where they live. Based on that, and the rarity of the species, you can bet it will be 50k or better.

I wouldn't hunt one for free, but if someone wanted to, and could get legal cites documents to import the trophy, etc, I would think the trophy fee should be something like $200 to $250,000, with the sum divided about 1/2 to research/restoration, 1/4 to locals to support the animals, and 1/4 to the countries fish and wildlife dept. All this, plus the costs of the hunt which would be high but not unbelievable with a fairly high hunting license fee deductible from the $250,000 if there was a kill. I suspect the success ratio of a true fair chase hunt would be very low. That's why a trophy fee is a better system than just a hunt cost.

A few months ago I watched a show on Animal Planet or the Discovery Channel about a film crew that was attempting to get video footage of a wild snow leopard. They were in an area with known snow leopard concentrations and had lots of time and help. It took them YEARS to get daylight footage of a leopard within shooting range. They got some leopard footage from various trail cams, but it took a long, long time to get one on film from a hand held camera. It made sheep hunting look like a walk in the park.

I think the research groups should be able to sell an unlimited number of hunts (no baiting) for $100K each plus a $100K trophy fee. It would pay for the research and I doubt more than one leopard would get killed every five years. In fact, I'd wager the mortality rate of the leopards would be lower than the mortality rate of the hunters.

quote:

I think the research groups should be able to sell an unlimited number of hunts (no baiting) for $100K each plus a $100K trophy fee. It would pay for the research and I doubt more than one leopard would get killed every five years. In fact, I'd wager the mortality rate of the leopards would be lower than the mortality rate of the hunters

I totally agree with this post.Not being condescending, but obviously you are not aware of the Himalayan terrain. It takes years to spot one,leave alone shooting it. Personally, I would not shoot a Snow Leopard even for free.It is an Endangered animal.No one knows what their numbers are.I am not making any personal references, but I am not too keen to shoot something simply because it is rare or exotic.Best regards-
Locksley.

I have an aquaintance who is pals with a Maharaja in India somewhere that took some very good video o a number of Snow Leapards while on a visit.

This fellow is an avid shooter, very wealthy and has let hints drop occasionally about shooting one. I don't know but I wouldn't put it past him as I know he paid guide to shoot a huge Marco Polo for him when he couldn't go any higher.

I would bet that $250,000 ea for 5 animals would not be hard to get. With $200,000 going to research from each animal it would be good for the Snow Leopard also.

I know all the Greenies would have a fit but if they would raise the 1mil instead the animals could be saved.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:
Personally, I would not shoot a Snow Leopard even for free.It is an Endangered animal.No one knows what their numbers are.I am not making any personal references, but I am not too keen to shoot something simply because it is rare or exotic.Best regards-
Locksley.

It's not about shooting an animal because it is rare or "endangered", it is about setting up an institutional and financial mechanism by which hunting yields a reason for people to either not poach or to punish those who do. I see so many Nubian Ibex horns for sale here in Egypt (sometimes entire European mounts) that are undoubtedly poached by Bedouins and sold at probably minimal profit. If the infrastructure existed in Egypt whereby people in these tribes could be hired as guides (no one else is going to know the areas) to legally hunt a particular number of Ibex per year, I have no doubt that the Bedouin would make more money AND fewer Ibex would die in the course of a year. Across the border in the Sudan, legal Ibex hunts are going for about $13,000 each. That would buy a lot of research and anti-poaching activity in Egypt let me tell you.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Thanks for the responses! I think it is a long shot (pardon the pun- long shots probably aren't that uncommon around here)but it would make sense if the numbers offered here were even close to reality. Allowing 5 per year to be taken legally and using the funds for anti-poaching, research and developing local economies somewhat along the same lines as the CAMPFIRE program did for elephant conservation is something that I think is worthy of pursuing.

Perhaps we could introduce them in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming?......I bet they would lower the wolf populations! JUST KIDDING!!!!

IV

I am honestly not trying to go with a bigger & better story here, but I was fortunate to actually see one in the Altay of Mongolia on my first trip over there.

We were side hilling across a scree slope trying to put a sneak on a billy ibex we had spotted, we jumped a couple mammas & babies who bolted. The snow leopard must have been putting a stalk on them when we spooked them all. Everything must have been just right, that is the only answer I can come up with as to how we got that close.

Anyway we got to watch him/her streak across the side of the mountain, it certainly wasn't wasting any time & no I didn't get a picture of it (I was panting like a lizard on a parking lot & my camera was safely tucked away in my fanny pack)

Not much of a story, but it was a great thrill!

Mike

You are a lucky fellow!

One of the ideas put forward by the Snow Leopard Trust is an increase in marketing for snow leopard prey species trophy hunts, the idea being that the increased value of prey species to local economies will help provide incentive for people to lower grazing and keep prey levels higher for the snow leopard.

IV

If they were to become available, the hunts should be spaced about 4-6 years apart.

Five per year? These snow chui's are not going to give up that many a year. Not knowing their numbers, this would be difficult to pass the powers that be.

Maybe depredation hunts are the way. The cost should be about half a mil apiece. Snow's have got to be worth much more than a black rhino.

When you get it into the US, take it to Widowmaker416. He did one for a zoo that was spectacular!

Wonder how many verified attacks on man there are?

Just my mind wandering at 5:00 in the morning,

Minkman