My first attempt at attaching photos, hope I accomplish this!!!! Had great hunt on South Island with Mike & Julie Hodder of Reel Hunting!



Not sure how to add both Chamois and Tahr to same posting!!! HELP anyone!!!!!

Here's my Tahr. Both Chamois and Tahr were located by helicopter.... one of the "fairest chase hunts" I've ever done.... My life was probably in more danger the the Chamois & Tahr's as exiting a helicopter is most precarious!!!!

Nice pair of animals.
Is this what you people call a fair chase hunt, why didnt you just shoot the animals from the chopper and be done with it.
The beauty of hunting these beautifull animals is the challange to locate them with your skill not by the use of a chopper.
Sorry but I dont call this hunting, more like culling the govt used to do a few years ago.

milosmate

Yeh Nelson, can you tell us how you possibly consider that to be "FAIR CHASE". Sounds to me like someones being pissing in your pocket.

I've wanted to hunt New Zealand for many years now. The photographs you posted with the huge mountain ranges in the distance are really great. The natural beauty of the land is what interests me so much, along with some spectacular hunting opportunities.

Thanks,
BigBullet

D.Nelson,
Nice looking trophys and beautiful mountains.
Tell us more about this hunt.

Well

I have to argee with the Aussies and Kiwi's about the methods. I would never accept a chopper, it is not good sportman ship to cheat

Hunting is not always easy and can be very taxying and tiresome, it's part of the beauty and your trophys becomes even more valuable and brings back memories

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Nice animals well done.

To post both pics on the same post, just click on "image" again and paste in the address and away you go.

Bakes

Nice trophies guys !

But .... I am assuming you only had limited time for your hunt , hence the need to fly in and spot from the air . At least you did get out of the machine to shoot , but still stretching the realms of fair chase hunting a smidgen. Sure , its tough terrain , and mighty hard work , but ground hunting in the mountains is real hunting , real fair chase stuff , the stuff you remember because it was so hard .

Maybe if this is your once in a lifetime chammy hunt we can excuse the chopper , but I will still do it the hard way for my next fair chase hunt.

It would be better to try to get the chopper in the background. Really makes for a "good" "hunting" "trophy" photograph.

This raises a very interestng question....

Is it fair chase when in Africa you use a bush plane to change camps to get closer to known populations of game. Then get into a vehicle and drive close enough to see the animals. Get out and stalk for a few hundred yards or maybe even a mile or so...

I think that we are treading on dangerous ground... To the anti's it is never fair chase.. You would have to be naked and armed with a rock to be fair chase.. After all you have that big powerful scoped sniper rifle that can kill animals thousands of yards away... (:>how can that be fair?

Guys I really apologize for my poor attempt at humor!!!! I was trying to imply my clutziness made it fair chase, rather than locating game by helicopter!! Please forgive me as I too really admire those who do it without helicopters and mechanical help. Yes time, physical condition, as well as other things made me opt for the helicopter hunt. I've hunted other animals in other areas, and indeed hunting on foot, alone, and (with a bow) provides more of a sense of accomplishment.

Hope there is a place for all types of hunts and hunters in our hunting world. I hope to be hunting from a wheel chair someday, if necessary!!

No more "poor humor attempts" from me!!!

D.Nelson,
I don't care if you hunted them from an Apache Gunship with Heat Seekers.If it made you happy thats all that really matters in the end.
Tell us more about this hunt the place looks exciting!

In a country of great outdoorsmen ( and women )the idea of using a chopper to find game is simply the lowest life form imaginable to the average Kiwi bloke . Sure , we use them to get access to remote hunting areas , but we just dont hunt from them . That is the sort of thing our "beloved" Government through its Conservation Department does when they decide to do a search and destroy mission on chamois or tahr on publicly owned land . If the wankers had any brains they would be promoting the hunting of those species internationally to bring you guys and your money here to us .

I am pleased you had a successfull and enjoyable hunting trip down here , we like to see you foreigners have a good time , even if your transport methods are a little suspect . Come again , and bring some good climbing boots.....

D Nelson

I wanted to add to my quick comments from last night. I agree with Muzza.

Most hunters would not have a problem at all with hunters catching a helicopter ride up to the tops, perhaps to a camp or hut. From THERE you hunt on foot.

In the good ole days (before helicopters) you set off on foot from the base of the mountain (or where the nearest hut was) and came down again after a couple of hours at the tops. I really admire these hunters.

It really isn't hunting to shoot from the helicopter or sight the game from the helicopter and then land and shoot the animal.

I think it is a REEL shame (get the pun ) that it is legal in NZ to do this and should be outright banned. Outfitters and their clients doing it should rightly be black balled and exposed.

And don't worry about it only being yanks doing it. I was told about a group of prominent Aussie deer hunters that went over and did it some years ago. They then posed for the photos and wrote up stories about their hunting prowess

I don't think the "old age", "infirmity" or "unfitness" excuse used on these forums to shoot game off the back of bakkies, from choppers or using other methods really cuts it.

Personally I really want to hunt chamois myself but I know I will really have to fitten up before I can do it, because there is no way I am going to bring disrespect to the animal. That's just my opinion.

Chamois is one of the greatest (and prettiest) mountain trophies. Indeed in places like Austria the chamois hunters are regarded as a race of hunters apart. If this was done in Austria the response would be a hundred times what has been received here, let alone probably fines and jail sentences.

I really think you didn't know this was going to be a bit of a scandal the way you openly and honestly posted the "method" of shooting your chamois. Maybe you were unaware what most hunters down-under (and in NZ) think about that sort of shooting game? So I am not aiming my comments at you personally. While it may be legal - there aren't many laws protecting introduced animals in Aust & NZ and most of the ones that are don't do much to ensure hunting ethics, unlike the USA and Europe. I think it is great that you exposed the Hodders and their methods.

I hope you come down to NZ again and try some outfitters that only do it the right way.

Thank you all for your input. I have certainly learned a lot about hunting ethics in NZ. I would be very interested in a referral to a free range, fair chase outfitter for chamois & tahr. I am looking for an excuse to go back!!!! The country was breathtaking and the people wonderful.

As a side note, when I began investigating chamois & tahr hunting, the helicopter locating option, seemed to be the method that most outfitters offered. Is this correct or did I just attract those that offered the helicopter option? I'm just curious.

I cant wait to get to NZ for a hunt. I,m planning on going next year. Ive been reading a few magazine articles about it and cant wait to get over there.

D Nelson

Your comment that most of the outfitters offered this might be right for all I know. Hopefully some of them were offering the "taxi service" up to hunting territory instead.

Liked your photographs. Fantastic scenery isn't it. These Kiwi's are too spoiled I think.

I have the name of a very good outfitter who when I hunted with him, only hunted free range. One of a few to do so. Best outfitter I have hunted with and heard the same comment from other people independently. If you want his name drop me an email.

[ 08-06-2003, 16:45: Message edited by: NitroX ]

Kiwis

Not related to the topic matter of this thread, but does NZ still have a Professional Hunting Guides and Outfitters Assoc ?

They did back in 1993 but it was fledgling (?)

D NELSON
have spent many mounths hunting in N.Z if you are intrested in a free range hunt drop me a line and i will put you onto an out fitter/ guide friend of mine ....i think the price will be more than competative
regards daniel

M 98, NitroX & rws2 I think I managed to send you each a PM. Hope you received them. Thanks for you info. D. Nelson

I understand why someone hunting using a helicopter. It was not for me. I hunted by foot and it was brutal. Crossing a stream and getting wet I do not know how many times. Setting up camp finally after several hours of climbing up to get into this high Valley in the Mesopotamia's. The first day was great, sunshine, I couldn't ask for better weather. Next day rained like there was no tomorrow. That night the winds blew and a the snow hit us. We were using an Alaskan guide tent from Cabela's. The only thing that kept the tent from blowing away was us in it. The frame broke and the tent collapsed on us. We got up and it was still snowing and blowing but we could see a bull tahr working down the cliffs toward us. I could not believe our luck well an hour plus later after getting into some rocks on this cliff side. I made this shot. I knew I hit it but it did not want to go down, it was confused as to where the shot came from because the high winds and snow. The tahr came right at me, I made a second shot and down it went both shots were in the hear lung area we discovered after gutting skinning the thar. It was so cold my shutter froze open on the camera after a couple of pictures. After getting out of these mountains and getting back down out of there. We went looking for Chamois in different area. It seem liked climbing straight up again. The hunt was for seven days. Well, my knees were so swollen I could hardly walk for a week. Would I do it again. I would if I could physically. You must be in top shape to hunt tahr and chamois without the aid of helicoptor and have the help of someone who really knows the area. Congratulations are still in order for your success.

D Nelson,

Two beautiful animals in deed. Out of curiousity, just how close did the outfitter drop you off to the animals??? The reason i ask is that I thought the sound of helicopters made them jittery due to the amount of culling done from the air..

Regards,

Pete

Brooks Carmichael WOW!!! What a feat you accomplished!!!! Makes me hurt just reading about your hunt. Congratulations, well done!

Pete E The chamois would indeed run from the sound of the heliocopter, but would dive for cover beneath rock shelves. So once they took cover the helicopter dropped us off and left. I was dropped about 100 yds, straight beneath them (impossible shooting position, but only place they could get one skid of helicopter on rock to let me out). Once the helicopter left I crawled into a better position and waited for the chamois I wanted to bolt from cover. There were 3 chamois in the group. The shot was a snap shot in an extremely vertical angle, because I couldn't really get a braced position with such a steep angle.

In comparison, the tahr I watched also ran from the sound of the helicopter, but didn't seem to seek cover, just kept running and running. (They are beautiful to watch and can leap what looked like a 100 yds down cliff faces, with no ill effect.) So when we located the bull we wanted, we made a presumption of the direction he would go. Again the helicopter dropped us off in a precarious position only able to put one skid on the ground. Then he left. I took my tahr on the run at about 180 yds from a prone position atop a shale point.

I want to be sure to add that the helicopter did not herd the chamois or tahr at all. We (the guide and me) basically located them and were dropped off a close as safety and practicality allowed. These mountains, as the kiwis and Brooks Carmichael can testify, are straight up and down and I'm very clutzy!!! The scenery was spectacular. The chamois were located below the snow line and the tahr were on the peaks above the snowline.

Hope this answers your question. D. Nelson

Here is a NZ website that might be usefull to you overseas guys if you are looking at hunting/fishing trips down here
http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/

It may not answer all your questions but it will give you more contacts and things to ponder.Good luck

Muzza-- Thanks for the referral. D. Nelson

D. Nelson.
Don't let these guys get to you. Hunting ethics are a personal matter.
Unless they start the hunt naked without any food, shelter or clothing and go form there, they are using tools. Where do you draw the line on what tools are appropriate?
While I think we should always encourage other hunters to maintain a level of sport (or else hunting would be no more than killing), we should not condemn anyone for ethics they may have that are different than ours.

I only handgun hunt, which is more challenging and more fulfilling to me, but all those "wankers" in New Zealand won't let me hunt there with one, so they aren't getting my dollars anytime soon.

I will get my Tahr in the Himalayas, and my chamois in the Alps, instead of that unethical hunting of transpalnted animals down under.

NitroX I tried to send you a PM again. Hope it gets through. Regards, D.Nelson

Beautifull animals D.Nelson.
This past June was my third time to the West coast of the Southern island of New Zealand.Three years ago,myself and a friend of mine flew to a hut and hunted from there,because the tahr were more than a day walk from the hut,we spike camped for 3 days,day one--we located thar--day two--climbed and got 3 tahr,by the time we finished skinning hypothermia was setting in(it had been raining for the last few hours),with the help of ropes we mannaged to lower ourselves out of a bad spot and mannaged to warm up with the exortion,when we got to the spike tent we stripped and got inside our sleeping bags and were able to finally warm up and relax,next day the rain continued and we had to pack and make the walk back under heavy rain,we were glad when we finally made it to the hut,got a fire going dried some clothes and had something warm to eat.
Two years ago we had the chopter fly us right to the top with instructions to pick us up in 6 days,well it rained the full 6 days,winds were fierce it broke the poles in the tent and we both held the top of the tent right over our heads,on top of all this we had the Keas(alpine parrots) to contend with has they like to rip everything they get a hold of,we got 2 bull tahr each and had to descend from the top to the hut to regroup and dry up and back up to be picked up by the chopter.
This past June the weather just got from bad to worse,hunted 2 days in pouring rain,tried to cross a creek(more like a river from all the rain)and allmost got swept downstream,the chopter could not fly us and it was a good thing as one cold front moved in and dumped a ton of snow in the high country(where we wanted to go).
We drove south for chamois but it did not work out.
Well,we are already planning round 4,because once you hunt on those mountains,you keep on going back.
Fernando

Fernando Wow! What adventures you had!! I know what you mean about getting addicted to those mountains they are fantastic. We stayed in Franz Josef for several days and had beautiful weather our entire 10 days in NZ. Sounds like we were very lucky!!!! Good Going! D. Nelson

Guys - this is a good thread!!!

I stand by my earlier comments about helicopter hunting , but that aside I really am pleased that some of you have sampled our hunting and enjoyed yourselves - although being a human tent pole for six days doesnt have much appeal . Please come back and have another go , we have some neat country to hunt and it can be very challenging , all of which makes it more memorable.

Rob from Anchorage - we would love to be able to hunt with handguns too , but we cant so it isnt something we can change , guess we will have to rough it and use rifles instead . You will always be welcome to come and hunt our way though, should you change your mind.

Here's a couple of pictures of some of the Tahr I got out of Watharoa,I will never forget those hunts.I had to add a photo of my Bc goat as I think that Mt. goats and Tahr are pretty much equal as to their living quarters.
Now I have to put some time to chase Chamois.
Fernando [IMG]http://Nevestaxidermy.com/my documents/photos/P5050002.1jpg.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://Nevestaxidermy.com/my documents/photos/5050004.1pg.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://Nevestaxidermy.com/my documemts/photos/P9060022.1pg.jpg[/IMG]

[ 09-03-2003, 08:14: Message edited by: Fernando ]

Deleted - tried to get the photos working.

[ 09-04-2003, 16:57: Message edited by: NitroX ]

[IMG]http://www.Nevestaxidermy.com/my documents/photos/P5050002.1gif[/IMG]

I'm trying to get the photos.

[IMG]http://C:\My Documents\Photos\P5050002.1jpg[/IMG]

Still trying to get the pictures

Fernando

Fernando

The photos appear from the addresses to be on your home PC ? ie the reference to "My Documents" and C:/ drive.

Also note the file extension .1jpg possibly should be .jpg only (?)

If they are, you need to load them onto a web site eg your own or a free photo hosting site and then use the addresses of the photo when on a web site to add as the image url on AR. Right click on the photo when uploaded to the web and the address of the photo should be visible in the properties item.

Hope that helps.

hell, you guy's must be pussy whipped to go on the way you have. At first I thought it was a bloke that went on this god awful hunt and when we found it was a woman you stopped firing. I'm disgusted at your lack of back bone. I will always call a spade a spade.

D.NELSON

Did you happen to catch a documentary on TV over here (NZ) showing our Department of Conservation shooting (murdering) Thar from a Hughs 500 in the South Island?

Many Thar like the one you got were basically slaughtered and left to rot.

It still happens.

Hope theyre still around when/if you return.