Please see full details below :

Due to several reports already in my areas there is an urgent need to do something as soon as possible.The villagers are stressed as well as the relevant councils.

I don’t want to go do a PAC ( Problem Animal Control ) myself:. I will if I have to but I am hoping there is someone here that is keen and available to come sort out a Bull . It will be a trophy bull and exportable to those countries that allow imports.. However I will make this very affordable and folks you just never know what size bull you will encounter.. please don’t take this hunt with expectations of a 50lb plus .. could happen for sure and had many times but expect a good solid mature bull ok..

10 Days all inclusive with scout fees / taxes everything.. transfers / meals / local available beverages all services PH , vehicle and staff ..and trophy fee ..

For US$ 17000 .. if you don’t take a bull then you will only pay $7000.

The skin will remain property of landowner to cover salting andvtransporting to local taxidermist or dealer .

If you want a panel or 2 plus feet / tail that can be arranged no problem.

Ivory registration and CITES tag $250

Gratuities at your discretion.

Areas to be hunted : Umguza / Lupane RDC ..

Rifle hire on request $30 a day plus ammunition.

For serious enquieries or questions please contact me on my email: nyamazanasaf@netconnect.co.zw

Or call / whattsapp on +263 772450375

Kind regards

Wayne Van Den Bergh

12, 26th Avenue
Famona
Bulawayo
Zimbabwe

Just received another call , the community/ council office is desperate for me to sort this out .. I am prepared to drop this trophy fee by $1000... So now this is a $16000 deal ..

If I could get it into the US I'd be interested. Anyone know the status?

Currently no Ivory Imports into the U.S. from Zimbabwe. You could leave the Ivory there and apply for an Import Permit and Maybe Import it in the future?

Sure wish I could pull this hunt off as a management bull but sadly not this year.

Bring an observer with for free, as soon as we have a decent bull down we can go to my other area for plainsgame.

I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

The way I read it is that if he can not get a client to pay the associated fees for a management or trophy Ele, then he would have to kill it under "PAC" which he does not want to do as the land owners get no payment only Nyamma and less crop damage

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

The way I read it is that if he can not get a client to pay the associated fees for a management or trophy Ele, then he would have to kill it under "PAC" which he does not want to do as the land owners get no payment only Nyamma and less crop damage

If this is the case, it sounds like a very crooked way of doing it.

And how would that make it legal??

Hi Saeed

If I am reading this correctly then Wayne is not wanting to shoot this bull as a PAC which it is. If he did that no monies will be generated for communities or out fitter and there would simply be another dead elephant.

As a result Wayne is offering this bull to a client and it will come off his TROPHY QUOTA. If the client is from a country that can export it then they can do that but if from the States he will have to leave it behind. It will be luck of the draw as to how big it is BUT it will be alot cheaper then a trophy hunt and legal.

Correct this is not a PAC offer .. please read my post .. I am offering this hunt at cost as as it is a early start to the season , Luke I said I have been contacted by the relevant councils due to early havoc being caused by Elephant. I only start my season mid March this year and will hunt Trophy bulls in the same manner if required and have done so for years successfully with clients and there is nothing crooked about it , I resent that remark ..! I was simply offering a great deal for those that would to get a Elephant and not have to pay $50K or so , if I can not find a client I will likely do this myself orvwith a learner guide/ hunter for them to get experience. There is absolutely nothing illegal about this offer at all. These bulls taken with clients come off a exportable quota issued by National Parks .

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

The way I read it is that if he can not get a client to pay the associated fees for a management or trophy Ele, then he would have to kill it under "PAC" which he does not want to do as the land owners get no payment only Nyamma and less crop damage

If this is the case, it sounds like a very crooked way of doing it.

And how would that make it legal??

I am glad that Buzz has added to this thread, as it seems he is spot on from my understanding of the situation.

Wayne mentions that the two areas this hunt could take place in are Lupane and Umguza. These are both Rural District Councils. These RDC's are south and east of Hwange. Both RDC's have areas that are heavily agricultural in nature. Wayne probably has around 10 elephant permits for each area.

It sounds like Wayne is faced with a dilemma. He will have to go back and shoot an animal himself as a PAC animal, where only the meat goes to the RDC, or he can sell a hunt, taken off his quota, for a low price to a hunter. This way both the RDC and Wayne profit from the hunt and a hunter gets a good deal.

It could be argued that any animal in Zimbabwe that is in an RDC, CAMPFIRE area, etc is a PAC animal, by the nature of them being in an area and competing with humans for food.

As an outsider looking in, everything looks completely above board to me. It is just the term PAC and Zimbabwe have been used together so many times that it becomes very confusing to everyone.

Wayne is probably out of touch at the moment. I would encourage everyone to allow him the time to see this thread and comment on it before everyone jumps to conclusions.

All the best.

Obviously I type to slow.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

The way I read it is that if he can not get a client to pay the associated fees for a management or trophy Ele, then he would have to kill it under "PAC" which he does not want to do as the land owners get no payment only Nyamma and less crop damage

If this is the case, it sounds like a very crooked way of doing it.

And how would that make it legal??

Exactly what are talking about ??? This is a totally legal deal absolutely nothing wrong with this offer. These bulls are on quota as trophy bulls for the paying clients . Simple really if I don’t get a client to take one of these bulls they will be shot anyway for zero nothing .. which is better do you think ..?! Pay for this or just waste it ..? These bulls were for decades shot only as PAC and O turned it around by having a quota issued and good revenue generated for the community as well as for the local RDC and for years clients have been very satisfied with this type of deal because most of the hunters that do this can’t afford a regular Elephant Hunt period.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

The way I read it is that if he can not get a client to pay the associated fees for a management or trophy Ele, then he would have to kill it under "PAC" which he does not want to do as the land owners get no payment only Nyamma and less crop damage

If this is the case, it sounds like a very crooked way of doing it.

And how would that make it legal??

I am glad that Buzz has added to this thread, as it seems he is spot on from my understanding of the situation.

Wayne mentions that the two areas this hunt could take place in are Lupane and Umguza. These are both Rural District Councils. These RDC's are south and east of Hwange. Both RDC's have areas that are heavily agricultural in nature. Wayne probably has around 10 elephant permits for each area.

It sounds like Wayne is faced with a dilemma. He will have to go back and shoot an animal himself as a PAC animal, where only the meat goes to the RDC, or he can sell a hunt, taken off his quota, for a low price to a hunter. This way both the RDC and Wayne profit from the hunt and a hunter gets a good deal.

It could be argued that any animal in Zimbabwe that is in an RDC, CAMPFIRE area, etc is a PAC animal, by the nature of them being in an area and competing with humans for food.

As an outsider looking in, everything looks completely above board to me. It is just the term PAC and Zimbabwe have been used together so many times that it becomes very confusing to everyone.

Wayne is probably out of touch at the moment. I would encourage everyone to allow him the time to see this thread and comment on it before everyone jumps to conclusions.

All the best.

Thank you very much you are 100% spot on. I simple tried to explain the situation that there was a need to urgently get a hunter who may be interested in a great deal to harvest a Elephant. I said these Bulls are a ptomblem as we speak and I have been asked tonsort this Problem out . I would rather have a paying client take one of these bulls as apposed to me doing as a PAC .. I never ever once offered this as a PAC .. I clearly mentioned it is a exportable bull for those countries that can import ..

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand PAC hunts are illegal to offer to overseas clients??!!

Please clarify.

This is NOT a PAC hunt .. I never once said come shoot a bull as a PAC . I clearly stated that this is a exportable bull to those that can import . It is not a freebie and a trophy fee is payable as well as this bull will come off my quota . If you didn’t understand my original post or if it wasn’t clear enough why did you allow it to be posted.? Clearly Buzz / Aussie Hunter and many others understood exactly what I was offering..! As well as numerous clients who have shown interest and have emailed me .

Saeed:
This is your playground and you will do as you wish. But a friendly suggestion: before you make a public statment of illegality why don't you PM the OP and ask what questions you need to. This is far better than starting a public shit storm when you have no basis for doing so.

You've done it to Mark, Shawn, and myself and my hunt was 100% legal. Now, to question Wayne is way out of bounds. A finer or more ethical hunter won't be found anywhere and for you to insinuate what Wayne is doing is illegal is a realy shitty thing to do.

But, we are used to it. I'm sorry you have lowered yourself to this level. As I said, it's your playground.
Cal

no apology for a poorly executed remark?

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Saeed:
This is your playground and you will do as you wish. But a friendly suggestion: before you make a public statment of illegality why don't you PM the OP and ask what questions you need to. This is far better than starting a public shit storm when you have no basis for doing so.

You've done it to Mark, Shawn, and myself and my hunt was 100% legal. Now, to question Wayne is way out of bounds. A finer or more ethical hunter won't be found anywhere and for you to insinuate what Wayne is doing is illegal is a realy shitty thing to do.

But, we are used to it. I'm sorry you have lowered yourself to this level. As I said, it's your playground.
Cal

Cal,

On the face of it, this offer was very dodgy, as many members have no idea what the laws are in Zimbabwe.

And Ira's post made it clear that clarifications were needed.

And I am glad to see it has been cleared out.

However, this a far cry from your hunt with that fake Mark Sullivan.

He is NOT LICENSED TO BE EMPLOYED AS A PROFESSIONAL HUNTER.

Shawn offering hunts with him, and him gloating on Youtube that he is guiding several clients, never changes this very pesky fact.

You added to this fact, as your hunt was with this fake, self glorifying idiot.

Here is your own hunt report, with all its glorifying details!

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Saeed:
This is your playground and you will do as you wish. But a friendly suggestion: before you make a public statment of illegality why don't you PM the OP and ask what questions you need to. This is far better than starting a public shit storm when you have no basis for doing so.

You've done it to Mark, Shawn, and myself and my hunt was 100% legal. Now, to question Wayne is way out of bounds. A finer or more ethical hunter won't be found anywhere and for you to insinuate what Wayne is doing is illegal is a realy shitty thing to do.

But, we are used to it. I'm sorry you have lowered yourself to this level. As I said, it's your playground.
Cal

Yep!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Saeed:
This is your playground and you will do as you wish. But a friendly suggestion: before you make a public statment of illegality why don't you PM the OP and ask what questions you need to. This is far better than starting a public shit storm when you have no basis for doing so.

You've done it to Mark, Shawn, and myself and my hunt was 100% legal. Now, to question Wayne is way out of bounds. A finer or more ethical hunter won't be found anywhere and for you to insinuate what Wayne is doing is illegal is a realy shitty thing to do.

But, we are used to it. I'm sorry you have lowered yourself to this level. As I said, it's your playground.
Cal

Yep!

Chirp! Chirp! Chirp!

Saeed asked for clarification,there is nothing wrong with that at all,it is his playground & he keeps it clean,anyone else could have asked the same question as well.Some of us here are not that savvy about each & every single PH out there as some of you making comments come across as,this offer looks much better & more solid now does it not? I wish I had the cash laying around,I would jump on this!!

Thanks Bill , yes it’s a great offer and still available. Sorry you can not make it over here . Hopefully someone will .

So to be clear, this is a normal daylight trophy bull hunt where the client can decline to shoot a bull that does not measure up to his expectations? It just happens to be an early hunt and will be conducted in a campfire area?

If everyone would just read the ad it's all there!!!

This is a good bit of marketing by Wayne. The mere mention of a PAC hunt stirs the notion of a great white hunter saving the village however he has quota, CITES permit, it is exportable, and Wayne is fully licensed in Zimbabwe, so it is legal.

The hunt will sold at a discount at the end of the year anyway, this way Wayne sells it now and has the cash in March instead of October.

Maybe not brilliant, but pretty smart business.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:
This is a good bit of marketing by Wayne. The mere mention of a PAC hunt stirs the notion of a great white hunter saving the village however he has quota, CITES permit, it is exportable, and Wayne is fully licensed in Zimbabwe, so it is legal.

The hunt will sold at a discount at the end of the year anyway, this way Wayne sells it now and has the cash in March instead of October.

Maybe not brilliant, but pretty smart business.

Thank you Mike . Thank you to all who read the post and understood exactly what I am offering. And to re-emphasis this is a 100% legal offer.

Been a bit of interest in this offer,some good enquirers but no confirmation as yet.
Whoever gets to go on this hunt will be the first hunter in for this year and from past experience these have been great hunts.

With all due respect to those involved, I think the wording of the opening post created some legitimate questions. Those have now been answered.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
With all due respect to those involved, I think the wording of the opening post created some legitimate questions. Those have now been answered.

Indeed and it is a problem elephant coming off a quota which is legal. Then why the price difference between a bull and female? And you can export parts of the trophy?

Good offer but confusing.

Hi Larry to be clear there is no mention of a cow Elephant in my post .. only offering a Bull Elephant which is exportable to those countries that can import. This Elephant will come off my quota, there will be a hunt permit as well as an accompanying Parks ranger as is the law and requirements for Zimbabwe in all Elephant/ Leopard/ lion hunts .

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
With all due respect to those involved, I think the wording of the opening post created some legitimate questions. Those have now been answered.

Indeed and it is a problem elephant coming off a quota which is legal. Then why the price difference between a bull and female? And you can export parts of the trophy?

Good offer but confusing.

Hi sir please understand that this is not a PAC .. only if I do it myself with the council or Parks is it a PAC .. there is no mention of me offering a Cow Elephant whatsoever.. I am only trying to emphasize the urgent need to try find a client who can come on short notice to do this hunt . We may hunt this trophy exportable Bull Elephant as I would do if I were to do a management hunt in the crops at night or we may follow them the next day into the forest .. nevertheless this is a legal tag and again please I do not mention cow Elephant in my offer at all.

I have again just received a call from the council that these Elephant are causing a serious issue every day the villagers are complaining.. as it now stands no one is coming to do this hunt or has committed to doing it so I guess I will have to attend to this myself.. I was seriously hoping to get someone to come on this hunt with me .. unfortunately it turned out to be a big debacle and some unfortunate confusion, if my initial post confused a few members then I apologize and to all those that understood it perfectly thank you for your support. It is not my intention to harvest management bulls just for the sake of it . I did try to generate something more for this Bull than just feeding a village .. Sad but necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by NYAMAZANA SAFARIS:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
With all due respect to those involved, I think the wording of the opening post created some legitimate questions. Those have now been answered.

Indeed and it is a problem elephant coming off a quota which is legal. Then why the price difference between a bull and female? And you can export parts of the trophy?

Good offer but confusing.

Hi sir please understand that this is not a PAC .. only if I do it myself with the council or Parks is it a PAC .. there is no mention of me offering a Cow Elephant whatsoever.. I am only trying to emphasize the urgent need to try find a client who can come on short notice to do this hunt . We may hunt this trophy exportable Bull Elephant as I would do if I were to do a management hunt in the crops at night or we may follow them the next day into the forest .. nevertheless this is a legal tag and again please I do not mention cow Elephant in my offer at all.

I have again just received a call from the council that these Elephant are causing a serious issue every day the villagers are complaining.. as it now stands no one is coming to do this hunt or has committed to doing it so I guess I will have to attend to this myself.. I was seriously hoping to get someone to come on this hunt with me .. unfortunately it turned out to be a big debacle and some unfortunate confusion, if my initial post confused a few members then I apologize and to all those that understood it perfectly thank you for your support. It is not my intention to harvest management bulls just for the sake of it . I did try to generate something more for this Bull than just feeding a village .. Sad but necessary.

Apologies but I read For US$ 17000 .. if you don’t take a bull then you will only pay $7000.

Meaning that a female would be taken instead? Meaning that it is not just males that are a problem.

I would say that the wording is a little confusing and the very hint of mentioning PAC raises eyebrows.

Cheers

The wording of the original offer is very confusing.

And because they are shooting a problem animal, it is PAC hunt.

I know rules can be bent, but we still cannot escape the fact that it is not legal for any client to shoot a PAC.

Frankly, I am still confused.

Is a foreign client shooting a PAC - as this is - and it is taken of the quota and entered in the book as a legal trophy is no longer a PAC??

Isn’t the whole advert for this elephant because it is causing problems?

Hence the urgency of the matter??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The wording of the original offer is very confusing.

And because they are shooting a problem animal, it is PAC hunt.

I know rules can be bent, but we still cannot escape the fact that it is not legal for any client to shoot a PAC.

Frankly, I am still confused.

Is a foreign client shooting a PAC - as this is - and it is taken of the quota and entered in the book as a legal trophy is no longer a PAC??

Isn’t the whole advert for this elephant because it is causing problems?

Hence the urgency of the matter??

I think if it was worded that Wayne had some crop raiding elephant that he was treating as 'management bulls' to be hunted on quota might have read better?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The wording of the original offer is very confusing.

And because they are shooting a problem animal, it is PAC hunt.

I know rules can be bent, but we still cannot escape the fact that it is not legal for any client to shoot a PAC.

Frankly, I am still confused.

Is a foreign client shooting a PAC - as this is - and it is taken of the quota and entered in the book as a legal trophy is no longer a PAC??

Isn’t the whole advert for this elephant because it is causing problems?

Hence the urgency of the matter??

Hi Saeed , sorry that you are confused, you get PAC permits and you get trophy hunting permits .. This offer is for a trophy Bull .. if I do the hunt myself with a scout I’ll get a PAC permit and do it myself. I have quota for these areas and I hunt bulls in the crops out of the crops with paying clients and when I do this I am more selective in taking a suitable bull not the first bull I happen upon.

Unfortunately some people are not understanding what I am trying to offer, certainly in future posts I will not use the term PAC in any sentence , even when explaining that I personally will have to do a PAC for some reason people think I am selling a PAC which I am NOT .. some call this management bulls or non trophy bulls .. etc . The fact is I don’t have quota for management or non trophy bulls .. these are all exportable bulls and would come off my quota of taken with a client..

Wayne,

The minute you mentioned it is a problem animal, confused started.

Because we were all made aware that no problem animal can be hunted by a client.

To understand this situation better, it may be helpful to point out WHY Zim does not allow foreign clients to do PAC hunts. In the past, this loophole was abused .. trophy hunts were offered at a discount dressed up as PAC. Some very large bulls were shot on PAC permits. Even in Hwange I believe. Ever-increasing numbers of elephant were being shot "off quota" by increasingly dubious operators with the blessing of crooked Parks officials. If a good bull was taken, the client would (directly or indirectly) purchase the tusks at the Parks auction with legal paperwork. In one case a 100lb class elephant was shot as PAC. This subverts the spirit of CITES if not the letter. In addition, PAC hunts are (almost by definition) night hunts, as the animal is supposed to be shot "in the act". Elephants are not stupid enough to raid crops in broad daylight. And old bulls are old for a reason. So the hunting is done at night up close in the dark, and it's mostly young/stupid bulls. This is not a task for amateurs .. crop-raiding is bad enough without wounded elephants running around. And to be effective, you have to shoot THE (or one of the) elephants that are responsible, and it must be done in THE cropland if it is to have the desire deterrent effect. Tracking the elephants into their daytime haunts and shooting one there has little or no deterrent effect.

So while it's possible to thread the needle in such a way that the hunt is legal, it's not a (selective) trophy hunt. If you pass on the culprit and instead shoot some other (better) elephant in the forest the next day, you have not helped the situation at all. You have merely booked an early season trophy hunt, at a modest discount. If you shoot the culprit, you have participated in a PAC hunt dressed up as a trophy hunt, and you are likely to end up with a young bull.

This is the kind of abuse that led the US to ban elephant imports from Zimbabwe. Sorry, but that's the plain truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Wayne,

The minute you mentioned it is a problem animal, confused started.

Because we were all made aware that no problem animal can be hunted by a client.

Hi Saeed

For all concerned can you please remove / Delete my post which has caused some confusion .

I will certainly pay attention to wording in the future. Sorry for the stress .

Kind regards

Wayne Van Den Bergh

No reason to delete it, as this thread has useful information, and proves you have not done anything wrong.

Just the way you have described your offer raised questions, and they were answered.