Folks,

I've often wondered about this but I never have come up with an answer.

Here is the scenario. A hunter on the Forums asked for information on a hunt for x,y,z species with the idea that he will eventually book a hunt. I contact that person through PM or e-mail and tell him what I have on offer. I don't even get an acknowledgement that I sent anything. I'm always left thinking WTF.

Another scenario would be and it has happens with some regularity is I feed information to a prospective client over days and perhaps weeks tweaking the hunt to fit their particular needs and they then drop off the face of the earth. No answer to further inquiries just poof! They're gone.

I just this AM rec'd a PM from a hunter letting me know that what I had offered was not what he was looking for. The total message was one sentence and a "Thanks for the offer" How hard was that?

I've been on this site for many years. A lot of the members and lurkers know me and know about my business. I have talked to a lot of you folks and booked quite a few on various adventures.

My question is if you PM or e-mail a friend or acquaintance don't you expect a response? If the answer is yes would not that apply to me providing information on a hunt?

Cheers,

Mark

Mark....short answer is yes I agree with you, I expect a response. Unfortunately the internet has created a vast number of rude people who simply do not seem to think they still should adhere to the social niceties we were raised with.

As an outfitter I ran into the same thing as you all the time. If you advertise something for sale on the internet you run into it as well. Like you I always think how tough can it be to just send a couple of lines...but apparently it is a great hardship to some.

Sad situation for sure. Rather rude. Happened a lot when I was booking as well.

Been there, experienced that Mark. Different situations here yet the same point. Promises ignored with things like appointments for appraisals, no show with final payment in trust (gave the item in faith). Worst ones were the NO SHOW appointments. People being 3 hours late. I guess only a few of us that do exactly what we say we will do are few and far between these days. Such is life. Believe it when I see it is my latest attitude.

Oh by the way, the Company that sold me the cancellation insurance policy I bought for my/our Africa hunt did not pay. There were like 10 ridiculous parameters that were required. So, I finally gave up. So, now AIG is on my permanent shit list. Thought you should be aware. Be well.
CB

I don’t think unsolicited emails/PM’s require a response.

If there has been two way communication, then it is simple politeness to end the discussion rather than just leave it.

Afternoon Mark

What it sounds like is someone asked you for a hunt and what I would cost.

Then they took that information and used it to compare one hunt vs another hunt.

They give little thought to the work it takes you to put a hunt together. Especially a special hunt that are asking for different animals.

The people you are talking about will probably never go on a hunt in Africa.

plus, they do not have a resource base to ask experienced hunters questions on where they need to look. They do not take the time to go to a convention or two and talk to different booths in the countries that they would consider.

However, they still should have replied.

However, the younger group is poor at communicating. they only seek you out when they would like something from you. I have to bug them to make sure that they receive the information requested.

Good folks should reply back, if they were the ones inquiring about a hunt.

Also, and we've exchanged a call and texts before, sometimes it's just a question of timing on an opportunity or dealing with family schedules that make things run out a year or more, even if the initial offer was a good fit.

The only time I won't reply back on a solicited offer is if the hunt is way overpriced- I had reached out to a booking agent once about a Mountain Caribou hunt in the NWT, and he emailed me back with pricing that was almost 2x what the better outfitters in the area were charging to go directly. I just didn't bother responding to that.

Mark raises an interesting point. People should be civil enough to use simple courtesy in at least an acknowledgement of communications. I get regular unsolicited emails / offers that come only because I am on some email list but many don't warrant a response and I don't reply. Some I receive though are sent as a matter of courtesy and those I usually acknowledge with at least a quick reply.
Ignoring a reply from an agent after sending an enquiry is just poor manners. But, I can say I have experienced exactly the oppsosite scenario, two or three times. Having seen a hunt offer of possible interest I have sent an initial enquiry that elicited a reply. Then, if needing more info and being somewhat detail oriented I usually fire off a list of pretty specific questions requiring detailed answers. My attitide is it's my money and I want to know exactly what is offered and what I'm buying. In the examples I reference the received replies were just too vague to be of any value. So I either informed the agent my enquiry ended there or resent the questions asking that the response be properly detailed. In those cases the agents communications abruptly ceased and further emails from me elicited only silence. In all cases these agents were USA based ( and advertised on AR ). If they were unable or unwilling to discuss my enquiries further I would not have been offended to receive a brief reply saying so.
But, not wishing to tar all with the same brush I can say dealings with some USA agents have been excellent.
Overall though my experience when checking out overseas hunts is that ( mostly ) comms works at higher levels when directly between an outfitter and potential client. I'm not saying that agents have no place. The good, long term ones are and have been in business for good reason.

Maybe they read the contract, had a heart attack and died????

JTEX,

That is a possibility but serious clients mostly avoid hospitalization and we just continue on with the booking.

Mark

30.06king

quote:

Then, if needing more info and being somewhat detail oriented I usually fire off a list of pretty specific questions requiring detailed answers. My attitude is it's my money and I want to know exactly what is offered and what I'm buying.

And you should. In my case answering the questions from a prospective client is my job. Even if I don't book a person I often learn something myself in researching the questions.

Mark

It simply goes both ways in all walks of life
Can’t take any of that personally
Sometimes client gives you business and sometimes he does not
Sometimes client answers and sometimes he does not
As an agent/contractor or business owner in most businesses dealing with public, you understand it and deal with it
Main thing is …don’t complain about it, it don’t help, it only makes you cranky and miserable
And I’m speaking in general and not against anyone individual
I do travel extensively to look at projects,, work on bids, spend lots of times and then nothing…part of the deal and there is times year or two later I get the call and job is mine while I have not heard from them fo that particular time

I booked hunts through agents and without agents, again, it is part of who and what we are and it is our money as clients to decide what we do with it

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

I've often wondered about this but I never have come up with an answer.

Here is the scenario. A hunter on the Forums asked for information on a hunt for x,y,z species with the idea that he will eventually book a hunt. I contact that person through PM or e-mail and tell him what I have on offer. I don't even get an acknowledgement that I sent anything. I'm always left thinking WTF.

Another scenario would be and it has happens with some regularity is I feed information to a prospective client over days and perhaps weeks tweaking the hunt to fit their particular needs and they then drop off the face of the earth. No answer to further inquiries just poof! They're gone.

I just this AM rec'd a PM from a hunter letting me know that what I had offered was not what he was looking for. The total message was one sentence and a "Thanks for the offer" How hard was that?

I've been on this site for many years. A lot of the members and lurkers know me and know about my business. I have talked to a lot of you folks and booked quite a few on various adventures.

My question is if you PM or e-mail a friend or acquaintance don't you expect a response? If the answer is yes would not that apply to me providing information on a hunt?

Cheers,

Mark

If someone asked for information on a forum, I would expect you to answer that on the forum, not by going directly to him.

Once communications have been established, then private channels can be used.

If continuous communications are done, then I would expect it is good manners to say at least thank you.

I do not like unsolicited offers, which I get all the time.

It is a business and sad to say people not reply back or answering after a quote is nothing new in business. I think to many think because it is over hunting the business rules change and they dont. I cant tell youhow many people I quote for a home remodeling job to never hear from them again. I guess most think what is the point to tell someone your not using there services.

The hunting “community” is chock full of self absorbed assholes. Don’t believe me? Go hang out at ANY safari club show for a few days.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
The hunting “community” is chock full of self absorbed assholes. Don’t believe me? Go hang out at ANY safari club show for a few days.

Can you imagine this??

There are certain websites which block AR!

Some don’t allow AR to be mentioned.

We, on the hand, like to see as many hunting sites as possible.

Mention them and link them freely!

Amazing what sorts of silly idiots we have pretending to be hunters!

Completely agree 200%

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
It simply goes both ways in all walks of life
Can’t take any of that personally
Sometimes client gives you business and sometimes he does not
Sometimes client answers and sometimes he does not
As an agent/contractor or business owner in most businesses dealing with public, you understand it and deal with it
Main thing is …don’t complain about it, it don’t help, it only makes you cranky and miserable
And I’m speaking in general and not against anyone individual
I do travel extensively to look at projects,, work on bids, spend lots of times and then nothing…part of the deal and there is times year or two later I get the call and job is mine while I have not heard from them fo that particular time

I booked hunts through agents and without agents, again, it is part of who and what we are and it is our money as clients to decide what we do with it

Mark try Tinder

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Mark try Tinder

That’s funny!

Mark, I think common courtesy is so easy to exercise, but too few people seem to care since the internet and social media have taken over society. If I receive an unsolicited contact, and I get way too much unsolicited marketing junk mail, I don’t feel compelled to reply. But when I’ve requested information or have been in an ongoing dialog, I try to never just drop without a reply. That’s just basic common courtesy.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
Mark, I think common courtesy is so easy to exercise, but too few people seem to care since the internet and social media have taken over society. If I receive an unsolicited contact, and I get way too much unsolicited marketing junk mail, I don’t feel compelled to reply. But when I’ve requested information or have been in an ongoing dialog, I try to never just drop without a reply. That’s just basic common courtesy.

Simply old-school courtesy and respect is sadly a dying trend

Guys,

I don't send out totally unsolicited offers but if a poster asks the Forum about a particular adventure I see no reason to not respond to that message. In return I'd only like and acknowledgement that the info was at least rec'd.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
The hunting “community” is chock full of self absorbed assholes. Don’t believe me? Go hang out at ANY safari club show for a few days.

Sadly, I have to agree with you. Fortunately I have also met some really great people through the years.

99% of the common folks are honest
Whining about the 1% get you the Whiner mark stamp

quote:

I don't send out totally unsolicited offers but if a poster asks the Forum about a particular adventure I see no reason to not respond to that message. In return I'd only like and acknowledgement that the info was at least rec'd.

Maybe he is just a lurker with no etiquette phishing for a quote to compare against others or your email was not received for one reason or another, e.g. spam folder.

Agreed you may have put time and effort in providing the requested information which is in your line of work, winning and losing some but no sense in losing sleep over the incident.

Try posting your proposal as a direct reply to his posted inquiry on the forum, which is what he might have wanted.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't send out totally unsolicited offers but if a poster asks the Forum about a particular adventure I see no reason to not respond to that message. In return I'd only like and acknowledgement that the info was at least rec'd.

Mark

If someone asks on a forum, you should respond on the forum.

Also agree with Saeed 200% on that.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't send out totally unsolicited offers but if a poster asks the Forum about a particular adventure I see no reason to not respond to that message. In return I'd only like and acknowledgement that the info was at least rec'd.

Mark

If someone asks on a forum, you should respond on the forum.[/QUOTE]

In any business there is always a bunch of tire kickers.

One has to deal politely with them because they have the money.

One day they well buy a car.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't send out totally unsolicited offers but if a poster asks the Forum about a particular adventure I see no reason to not respond to that message. In return I'd only like and acknowledgement that the info was at least rec'd.

Mark

If someone asks on a forum, you should respond on the forum.

In general, I agree but if someone posts that they are looking for a particular animal in a specific country during a particular time period and an agent has a great offer on that animal in another country, the agent may not want to clutter up the post with his offer. Since many other people may jump in the post and comment about the alternate offer.

I could see how an agent would make the offer in a PM rather than clutter up the original post with more posts that aren't related directly to it.

A client can look up outfitters on the Net.

Then contact, private, anyone he wishes.

That one way of doing it.

A client who asks on a public forum, I assume he also wants to hear from others.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A client can look up outfitters on the Net.

Then contact, private, anyone he wishes.

That one way of doing it.

A client who asks on a public forum, I assume he also wants to hear from others.

This forum precisely is great because of that. Many people might think different, we can have arguments, but we value different oppinions and contributions. At least I do.
If an agent or outfitter is bringing up a post or even just answering a post from a prospective client, he should keep on answering on that same post till the client himself ask for a different way of communication. I think all forum players here will valuate the contributions and might also give any oppinion about it that might be also valuable for others.
In my opinion that is the way it should go

Mark,
It is that way in all service industries. Had my own company for 20 years and dealt with all of what you are saying. Estimates always done at night or on weekends because you have to adapt to the potential customers schedule. Spending 1 to 10 hours figuring and typing out the estimate....then nothing. That is why I always hated "free" estimates, many potential customer were just tire kickers and did not mind wasting your time, but you better not waste one second of theirs. Just comes with the territory, and it was a huge part of why I finally walked away from it, just could not deal with the customers anymore.

Even if the person making the inquiries is just wishful and dreaming of a hunt a simple "Thank you, I will consider it" Will keep from burning a bridge.

To me, if it's on the Forum that's one venue, it's being exposed to everyone and really doesn't call for a response. If Mark or anyone like him PM's you or other than a general post.
I believe out of common courtesy a response is called for. I not to long ago asked him about a hunt and he responded with a couple alternatives that took his time. So even though it didn't work, I called him and thanked him and let him know I was going in another direction. It's not near as fun as contacting him and saying "book it" but a courtesy respecting someone's effort.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't send out totally unsolicited offers but if a poster asks the Forum about a particular adventure I see no reason to not respond to that message. In return I'd only like and acknowledgement that the info was at least rec'd.

Mark

As an agent, why would you burn bridge on client just because he didn’t respond in timely matter or not at all?
You vie for his business and his money

It's not just hunting, When we sold horses they would ask for video after video as the pre made one was never enough. Then crickets. Now the same with the Longhorn cattle.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
It's not just hunting, When we sold horses they would ask for video after video as the pre made one was never enough. Then crickets. Now the same with the Longhorn cattle.

Yep but with Mark as an agent the constant enquiries with operators to tailor-make a safari and not book makes the Operator apathetic to further enquiries

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
It's not just hunting, When we sold horses they would ask for video after video as the pre made one was never enough. Then crickets. Now the same with the Longhorn cattle.

Yep but with Mark as an agent the constant enquiries with operators to tailor-make a safari and not book makes the Operator apathetic to further enquiries

Every business owner is in same boat…I’m
One time I was insurance salesman, try that
It’s tough all the way around including being client
Life goes on and all we have is to go on and hunt as much as possible …at least that’s my case

Folks,

I'm not thinking of any particular person I've dealt with just wondering how other folks felt about the topic. Thanks for all the comments and PMs.

To Andrew's comment he's exactly right except I go thru all the work regardless. I must admit after 3-4 times of getting right to the point of having everything ironed out and the next step being to send the contract then Zip I do the future work for this person with a little less enthusiasm. Heck! They might book this time.

I like the work a lot and everybody gets the same amount of attention but it is disappointing when it comes to not. To me a booking is the next best thing to going on the hunt myself. When I have everything in order to satisfy the client and myself but it just never happens I'm a little sad.

Funny story! I had a hunter many years ago that I exchanged voluminous e-mails with tweaking everything and he disappeared after telling me he hadn't spoken to his wife about the hunt yet That's not the end of the story and the telling or not telling the wife thing is quite common.

A couple years later I start to deplane in Bulawayo and someone calls my name. It's that guy and he's in Bulawayo for the same kind of hunt we had talked about 2 years previous but with a different operator. I had to laugh!

Mark

We all know what you mean Mark and most of us dealt with it as well and everyone of us deal with it a bit differently