We just received a call from our outfitter in the Yukon that a spot for Stone Sheep has just opened up and he wants it sold! Additional species may also be taken on this hunt on a trophy fee basis.

Outfitter: Yukon Big Game Outfitters – Shawn Raymond
Whitehorse, Yukon
http://yukonbiggame.com/

Hunt: Stone Sheep with opportunity for add on species (moose, caribou, grizzly)
Spot for 1 hunter – gun only
Horseback hunt, but will do a backpack hunt if the hunter is in great shape

Success rate: Lat year they went 3 for 4. The one hunter who didn’t get his sheep, had an opportunity, but missed. In 2012 they were 4 for 4 with 2 making the record book.

Camp: Several base camps with 4 to 6 cabins at each site. They also have smaller single camps with one or two cabins on selected lakes and rivers. If hunting new ground, wall tents will be used

Arrival/Departure point: Whitehorse, Yukon

Dates: Flexible to a point……..due to change over dates, a hunter can leave Whitehorse for camp on either Aug. 12th or the 14th. If one chooses the 12th, this will be a 15 day hunt. Return from camp back to Whitehorse is on Aug. 26th. It is recommended that one arrive in Whitehorse 2 days early if possible.

Hunt cost: $17,000.00 with a $10,000.00 trophy fee on the sheep. The trophy fee is payable up front and if a good mature ram is not presented to the hunter within range, the trophy fee is then refunded.
Cost for this hunt next year is going to be a flat $34,000.00 with no trophy fee.

Other costs:
Airfare to/from one’s home to Whitehorse, hotels and meals before and after the hunt.

Charter to camp and back - $1,700.00. Flights are on scheduled dates, so if there are any changes and the hunter wants to come out early, it can be arranged, but will be at the hunters’ expense.

License, tags and government trophy fees

Canada Goods and Service Tax(GST) @ 5%

Yukon Hunting Preservation Fund: $180.00

Non resident firearm declaration: $25.00

Outfitters trophy fees for additional species:
Moose – $4,900.00
Caribou – $4,900.00
Grizzly – $6,500.00

Meat handling flights: $900.00 per animal if needed. Per the outfitter, this will be needed on moose and caribou. May or may not be needed on sheep and/or grizzly.

Trophy crating and shipping: Done in Whitehorse at hunters’ expense. This includes boiling of the skulls, capes/hides salted and dried, building a custom crate and shipping trophies to clients’ home (including permits). If multiple animals are taken, all are shipped together in 1 crate.

I do have one other hunter interested inthis hunt, but as of today, no money down.


Please call to discuss or if you have any questions.....Shawn left for camp today and he will be calling me back in a couple days.

quote:

The trophy fee is payable up front and if a good mature ram is not presented to the hunter within range, the trophy fee is then refunded.

Who decides this? How about this instead: If the hunter wounds or kills a ram, he pays the fee at the end of the hunt? Otherwise, he doesn't.

quote:

Outfitters trophy fees for additional species:
Moose – $4,900.00
Caribou – $4,900.00
Grizzly – $6,500.00

Does the hunter pay the trophy fees up front for all of these, too, in case any may be presented within range?

If this keeps up, I swear will quit hunting.

they re more in Fannin zone than complete Stone sheep.

Fannin can be classified for Dall or Stone for the grand slam but they re not Stone ...

hunting licenses and seals are not free either.

Big Game & Small Game Licence Fees
(GST EXTRA)
Yukon resident
$10
Non-resident Canadian
$75
Non-resident alien
$150



Non-Resident Harvest Fees
(GST EXTRA)
Coyote
................................................
$50
Wolf
.....................................................
$75
Wolverine
..........................................
$75
Black Bear
.........................................
$75
Moose
..............................................
$150
Caribou
............................................
$150
Mountain Goat
.............................
$200
Mountain Sheep
..........................
$250
Grizzly Bear - male
......................
$500
Bison
................................................
$500
Grizzly Bear - female
..................
$750

Big Game Seal Fees
(GST EXTRA)
Moose
..........................
$5
Goat
...........................
$10
Bison
..........................
$10
Caribou
........................
$5
Deer
............................
$50
Grizzly Bear
..............
$25
Sheep
.........................
$10
Elk
................................
$10
Black Bear
...................
$5

medved, agreed 100%.

But those amounts are tens and hundreds, not thousands and tens of thousands.

And they're not based on judgment calls made by an umpire who's also a player and who's holding my cash.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
medved, agreed 100%.

But those amounts are tens and hundreds, not thousands and tens of thousands.

And they're not based on judgment calls made by an umpire who's also a player and who's holding my cash.

they re not for sure still 425$ not shown at mini, but my first post is more interesting on my own opinion .....

Mike,

On the trophy fee question.....it would be the guides decision based on the hunt and what was presented to the client.

Agree or disagree, it's the outfitters call, not mine. Your way.....I could run it by Shawn and see if he'll go for it if your interested.

On the additional animals. Trophy fees are only paid if the animal is harvested or wounded.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
medved, agreed 100%.

But those amounts are tens and hundreds, not thousands and tens of thousands.

And they're not based on judgment calls made by an umpire who's also a player and who's holding my cash.

they re not for sure still 425$ not shown at mini, but my first post is more interesting on my own opinion .....

Did not say your post was not interesting.

Species are species, fair is fair and money is money.

Medved,

No, the tags aren't free, but i do have them listed as an extra cost in the hunt description.

A lot cheaper than B.C. too. Tags there for sheep, moose, caribou and grizzly would run close to $2,000.00

On the stone/fannin debate........all depends on which organization is classifying it.

quote:

Originally posted by Northman56751:
Mike,

On the trophy fee question.....it would be the guides decision based on the hunt and what was presented to the client.

This is a completely subjective standard. In certain light, with certain wind, reasonable minds will differ. I would need to know that my judgment would govern, but that may be unique to me.

quote:

Agree or disagree, it's the outfitters call, not mine. Your way.....I could run it by Shawn and see if he'll go for it if your interested.

Now, we're talking.

quote:

Originally posted by Northman56751:
Medved,

No, the tags aren't free, but i do have them listed as an extra cost in the hunt description.

A lot cheaper than B.C. too. Tags there for sheep, moose, caribou and grizzly would run close to $2,000.00

On the stone/fannin debate........all depends on which organization is classifying it.

Brett,
i dont know for BC and tag prices but what i know is that is not a stone sheep area but i understand that a stone worth more than a fannin or a dall.

good luck with your sale.

Phil

If it's got black hair other than it's tail it can be called a Stone. Yukon stones are typically lighter overall than BC rams but they are accepted by most organizations as Stones. I've seen some beautiful coloured rams out of this area. I think the real question is do fannin rams actually exist. Most organizations don't recognize them.

If you look at the website, there are some damn nice sheep in the photo gallery.

Dang, wish the timing was better.

Good luck with the hunt sale.

Mike,

I talked with Shawn today. If interested, please contact me.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

The trophy fee is payable up front and if a good mature ram is not presented to the hunter within range, the trophy fee is then refunded.

Who decides this...If this keeps up, I swear will quit hunting.

Agreed. I don't really like the idea of hunting with a guy who can just say "Oh, that was within range so I am keeping your $10,000". Screw that.

i agree. it is absolute bullshit to give the guide final say on your $10,000 trophy fee. " well, i thought it was in range and a makable shot- therefore you owe the money". good luck with that concept....

I liked my Marco Polo Hunt better, $18,000 - $9,000 refunded if I didn't KILL a sheep. I did miss one. Outfitter told me he doesn't consider the trophy fee HIS TILL the sheep "IS" back "IN" camp dead on the skinning floor.
Got a 9,000 refund IN CAMP!

Good luck and best wishes on your sale.

I have to apologize on the delays here...
am on a long weekend vacation with my wife and kids and have had internet/cell reception issues.

I realize that some people are going to have an issue with the way this hunt is offered, but its what the outfitter wanted. He thought this would be a good way to offer this hunt. He has very good success since taking over this concession and has not had any issues with hunters not taking or turning down a sheep they target(over 8 yrs. of age).

So.......if one is not comfortable with the offer above, Shawn is willing to go $25,000 straight out, no trophy fee. Let's get this hunt filled!

quote:

Originally posted by Northman56751:

So.......if one is not comfortable with the offer above, Shawn is willing to go $25,000 straight out, no trophy fee. Let's get this hunt filled!

Not to beat a dead horse, but this guy needs to take a course in Marketing. The solution to a messed up trophy fee system is NOT to VERY slightly discount the hunt within a NO trophy fee system! LOL! Clients like to know that their outfitters are confident and have some skin in the game. Most are not going to risk $25K on a guy who clearly isn't too sure about his abilities to get clients on a sheep. Frankly, this hunt sounds a good bit like a guy who is selling more hunts than he has sheep on license, not getting the best shot opportunities for clients....then claiming "well, you were within range!"

Is the Yukon like BC where if they don't fill the tag they can sell it again to another hunter if they want? It doesn't put much trust into the effort of an outfitter if it is that way. I would pay $25K for a stone hunt but I am the kind of guy that wants to come home with a sheep. I know it's hunting and I get that but for $25 K I better have a couple decent goes at a ram

They do have a yearly quota but I wouldn't worry about it with these guys. They are about as hard core as they come and Shawn is a sheep nut. He killed some great sheep when he was outfitting in his Coal River area and they killed some great rams out of this new area already. I have no stake in this at all but I would be confident in his trophy fee structure. I have had hunters hunting on a day rate plus trophy fee hunt in the past not shoot an animal I put in front of them because they said they wanted something bigger. This of course is their choice but a 50" bull moose with 4 brow tines in Alberta is about as good as it gets. Then have the hunter tell me later that with the low day fees they could just enjoy their time in the bush and with the money they saved not paying the trophy fee they could go on another hunt. I've switched my structure over now to the same as Shawn has down. If you have an animal within 150 yards that matches what your contract said you should expect size wise then that's your chance. If you don't want it to work on that fee schedule then just pay the full price up front. My 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by HGC Safaris:
They do have a yearly quota but I wouldn't worry about it with these guys. They are about as hard core as they come and Shawn is a sheep nut. He killed some great sheep when he was outfitting in his Coal River area and they killed some great rams out of this new area already. I have no stake in this at all but I would be confident in his trophy fee structure. I have had hunters hunting on a day rate plus trophy fee hunt in the past not shoot an animal I put in front of them because they said they wanted something bigger. This of course is their choice but a 50" bull moose with 4 brow tines in Alberta is about as good as it gets. Then have the hunter tell me later that with the low day fees they could just enjoy their time in the bush and with the money they saved not paying the trophy fee they could go on another hunt. I've switched my structure over now to the same as Shawn has down. If you have an animal within 150 yards that matches what your contract said you should expect size wise then that's your chance. If you don't want it to work on that fee schedule then just pay the full price up front. My 2 cents

i would like to know about the nyearly quota they have on sheep in that specific area please tell us more.

up to now quotas are given on a three years basis Shawn operated there for now two years and i dont know when was set up his quota if any .... but please educate us.

In response to some of the comments above.....

On only lowering the price slightly from the base hunt/trophy fee offer.....his normal price is $32,000. Next year, $34,000. What are you expecting?

On the quota......there is only 1 outfitter in the Yukon that is on a quota per year and it's not Shawn with YBGO. The only way an outfitter gets put on quota is if the residents in a certain area/concession are also on a quota. This is directly from the Department of the Environment in the Yukon. I had this conversation with a nice lady (named Carol) a few months ago as i had another client ask me the same question.

I don't know the specifics on why there is an opening. Knowing Shawn and the dealings i've had with him to date,i didn't feel the need to ask. He said he had a last minute opening and wanted to see it could be filled.

One thing i forgot to mention that was told to me on the quota.

Outfitters that are in a no quota area are to take shape that are a minimum of 8 yrs. of age, or full curl. If sheep taken are under 8 yrs. of age or do not have a full curl, restrictions my be put in place on that outfitter.

quote:

Originally posted by Northman56751:
One thing i forgot to mention that was told to me on the quota.

Outfitters that are in a no quota area are to take shape that are a minimum of 8 yrs. of age, or full curl. If sheep taken are under 8 yrs. of age or do not have a full curl, restrictions my be put in place on that outfitter.

Brett,

thanks for the clarification done. i wish the locals had more preferences than outfitters but that is another discussion.

just for my own clarification quotas are given not only by the ministry but minus/bonus depending on the results of animal taken and then a commission composed by outfitters themselves ...
that s why i asked the quota from another poster than you.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by HGC Safaris:
They do have a yearly quota but I wouldn't worry about it with these guys. They are about as hard core as they come and Shawn is a sheep nut. He killed some great sheep when he was outfitting in his Coal River area and they killed some great rams out of this new area already. I have no stake in this at all but I would be confident in his trophy fee structure. I have had hunters hunting on a day rate plus trophy fee hunt in the past not shoot an animal I put in front of them because they said they wanted something bigger. This of course is their choice but a 50" bull moose with 4 brow tines in Alberta is about as good as it gets. Then have the hunter tell me later that with the low day fees they could just enjoy their time in the bush and with the money they saved not paying the trophy fee they could go on another hunt. I've switched my structure over now to the same as Shawn has down. If you have an animal within 150 yards that matches what your contract said you should expect size wise then that's your chance. If you don't want it to work on that fee schedule then just pay the full price up front. My 2 cents

i would like to know about the nyearly quota they have on sheep in that specific area please tell us more.

up to now quotas are given on a three years basis Shawn operated there for now two years and i dont know when was set up his quota if any .... but please educate us.

Sorry meant to say quota, not yearly.

So sorry your highness

Brett,

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd be more than happy to jump on it for $25,000. Unfortunately a marriage earlier in the year and a house in the next 12 months will likely prevent that from happening in the near future........

Brett

I think the concept of charging a "Trophy Fee" on top of the hunt serves a purpose. I also, think it has to be structured properly. I am absolutely in the "Camp" of the posts where the outfitter determines when the "Trophy Fee" is earned is malarkey. I think too many "Outfitters" think they are doing us a favor by offering a hunt. Whether we like it or not these hunts are a business transaction.
To load-up and go to a remote part of the world, be on top of a mountain with someone you basically do not know and let him make the call on whether you owe the "Trophy Fee" is ill-advised at best. The bottom line is you are the customer and its your money. I think we as hunters ought to ignore such ludicrous offers, period. As far as this being a $34,000.00 hunt next year. You, nor I will know that until next year, will we? It might be less. When we are spending the money we do on hunts. It's business. This outfitter has put a price on the sheep alone of $7,000 so why would you raise the price with no trophy fee to possibly zero out.? It should be real simple. Price of hunt with trophy fee owed when sheep is on ground or you have wounded.
" You Never Get What You Deserve, You Only Get What You Negotiate"

Most sheep hunts are a set price. If you get skunked, that's hunting and there is no refund. I viewed this offer as favorable for the hunter in that if they got entirely skunked, the outfitter shared some of that risk and the hunter got some money back.

I think it is just the wording, and the ambiguity of what constitutes an "opportunity" that is rubbing some the wrong way.

I would rather have the original offer than $25k with no refund if I got skunked.

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
I would rather have the original offer than $25k with no refund if I got skunked.

Thinking more about it, I think in some strange way, the "no refund" fixed price system does express SOME confidence by the outfitter that things will be fine as no one wants an entire season of pissed off clients who paid full fare and went home empty. Still, you are correct that the wording of the original offer is a problem. Given the ambiguity, I calculate the odds of a hunter not getting "an opportunity" worthy of the outfitter retaining the TF at just about zero. I guess everyone has different risk appetites...but for most guys, even sheep hunters, I would bet the "no refund"/fixed price system maxes out at about 15K and after that they want to know the outfitter has skin in the game...or be VERY VERY sure of the outfitters success rate with other clients.

As I said above, I don't mind and really prefer a trophy fee if structured correctly. When I am spending my money to finance the hunt. I want proper incentives for him to work hard and we get what we are after. As far as the all-in one price hunt it does have drawbacks. If there is a trophy fee involved you will tend to get his A-game more consistently and you as a hunter are saying "How Good Are You". That does not go without saying, that we as hunters have to do our part. The bottom line: As Hunters, we should view these types of hunts as a business transaction, that's what it is. We should continually try to get the most value and build in the incentives that will help make you more successful. I have no idea what this outfitter's thinking is. I don't think either proposal should be considered as offered.

so seems the deal is gone as we are the 15th?

Any pictures of the ram shot Northman? Did anyone take the hunt?