I'm told the Ruger #1 is a real pain to engrave (don't know have never done one yet .

Question: Could the #1 be annealed and then engraved and then be color cased or hardened?

They are not hard.

The Browning 1885 isn't hard that I know .The Ruger should be the same .

Why engrave it? Form follows function. Its beauty is already there in its lines. Save the pug ugly forestock on some models..

They are heat treated chrome moly steel; like most modern receivers, not very hard and not surface hardened. Don't need to be.
The "why" is something only the owner can know.

They are not 'hard' as far as working them over with files, mill cutters, drill bits ect.
But when you actually engrave them with a graver and hammer, you will then know what the engravers mean when they say 'they are hard'.
You have the same situation when cutting a Winchester M21 frame.
File on it all you want, no problem. Start cutting into it with graver and hammer and you will quickly be met with broken points on your tools.

Carbide gravers help immensely. But even then they will break their point much more often than they would on a 'normal' piece.
One very well known engraver put it 'You become a professional tool sharpener on some of these guns'


The #1's as general rule are difficult to cut. They always have been from the start.
Blame has gone to the investment cast production,,the type of steel used in the casting,,added ingredients in the casting metal to make it easier to pour,,all sorts of things.

Investment castings a rule will be more difficult if just not as smooth to cut as a forging or a piece made from a billet.

Then there is the exception. A #1 or a Win21 that seems to have escaped all the evil awaiting the engraver and those few pieces cut like CRS.
Then you wonder 'why?'

When I was cutting Win21's, I had to send a couple back to be annealed. Just too tough to do anything with. These were the orig Winchester mfg frames. The CSMCo made 21 guns are 8620 steel and CNC machined from a billet. Easy to cut. They are HT afterwards.

The #1 and most all of the Ruger firearms are investment cast. They can all be difficult at times but the #1 and the DA revolvers are the worst. The SA revolvers not bad at all to cut.
Heat treatment involved there I'd guess but I'm no metalurgist. Just a hammer & chisel guy going on 49yrs doing this.

The Winchester 21's were never investment cast. Their toughness (a better word for their reluctance to be cut with a small chisel) comes from heat treatment.
The frame and the fitted trigger plate are of the same steel alloy.
The frame is heat treated to that extreme toughness. The trigger plate is not. It received no HT and was left in it's soft state.
The frame breaks your chisels and patience,,the trigger plate cuts like a piece of CRS. Same steel.

The Ruger #1's are somewhat prone to having small pits on and under the surface. A result of the investment casting process. Probably much better controlled now than it once was.
Those tiny craters played hell when cutting.
Ruger used to heavily buff the surfaces to draw the metal (smear) and close the pores over. This was especially apparant on the underlever.

You get to know which guns are non-profit overtime frustration jobs and which are not after a while.
Ask most any engraver that's been at it a while which ones they'd just as soon stay away from.
The ones on their list are there for a reason.

Carbide tools and pneumatic chisels will find these frames to be like butter.

Thanks 2152hq...I knew someone here had a good answer to my question, Thanks!

Air assist engraving tools (along with the carbide bits) will make the cutting easier,,or at least make the points last longer betw sharpenings. Being able to set the tool for lighter impacts and much higher impacts per second or min than a hammer mechanic can do just naturally makes it easier on the tool point.

But they still break,,and carbide points shatter. Strange as it may seem that ragged broken carbide edge allows you to sometimes still cut with them in that state on softer 'normal' steel. Not pretty, but it can be done. It shows.

Any of the other graver material steels just nub over. Sometimes after just a few hammer hits if chaseing. With a pneumatic tool they may last a bit longer, maybe a minute worth of cutting and then on to the sharpening stone.
Very frustrating.
...But there's always that odd Ruger#1 or Win21,,or Colt Stainless auto slide that breaks the rules and cuts like it by-passed the HTreatment phase.


But the fact remains that the Ruger#1 frames and parts are just generally a tough steel to cut with little impact chisels.
Put 'em on the list

2152hq

For those of us who are unfamiliar with your work how about showing us a few photos.

Thank you,

Don Glaser wrote an article on Frank Hendricks a few year ago posted in the Engraver mag.

Frank had used a 120 degree graver with a slight .001 mm off the 45 degree face. This will cut for ever on 4140 steel without dulling. I have used this for cutting into stainless steel where other tip will break quickly. If you have not tried this angle of graver check out the Engravers Café web. Alfano has the 120 tool on his site on sharpening. Just use the .001 mm to change the tip point and you will see the difference.

I know investment castings are hard with a few small holes which we would peen to close on the Omega III actions.

Ruger is a hard steel to engrave, but can be done.

Ditto Les Brooks

Have not been on here for awhile...thanks also to Les and Roger...

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
2152hq

For those of us who are unfamiliar with your work how about showing us a few photos.

Thank you,

Haven't been here for a long time either and didn't see the request you made.

Here are a few pics,,sorry for the poor photog quality. Cheap camera and I shake quite a bit.
Just hit 50yrs engraving. FFL for 48, 30 of it full time.
I wrapped it up this past Nov and sent the records back in.
Time now to do some stuff for myself,, I hope.



Upgraded Ithaca N/Spl for a friend. Restocked, checkered, inlayed, frame reshaped, ect.


Polish & Recut on a Purdey TG


Parker Repro Upgrade


S&W pre-27 engr'v, reblue & custom grips



Win 61 upgrades (2 diff rifles)


Win 63 upgrade custom w/24k. Stock work, checkering & bluing also.


CZ45 25acp DAO pistol mfg '47. Engr'vd.
Orig grips.

Really nice work.