Does the 11 pound (5 kilo) limit on ammunition include the weight of the container?

No, but you may end up having to explain that to someone.

It's supposed to be ammo only. But my ammo has never actually been weighed.

No one has ever done more, on many, many voyages, than ask me if I was under 5 kg., or rarely, ask me how much my ammo weighed.

In the former case, the answer is always yes, it's under 5 kg. (backed up by actual weight measured at home).

In the latter case, it's good to have the actual number on the tip of your tongue.

That number should also be backed up by actually weighing your ammo at home, and should also be a number less than 5 kg., of course!

Wrench:
I've had my ammo weighed many trips to and from Australia and never to and from Africa.
In my limited experience:
if you are a bit over 11 pounds ask if you can take the ammo out of the hard container and weigh it separately--however it must still remain in the 10 or 20 round packaging
if the ammo is over 11 pounds it is up to the individual and/or his/her supervisor to confiscate all of it or a portion above the 11 pound limit

It really is a damn stupid law as if you have 12 pounds there is a problem but if 100 hunters have 11 pounds then that is ok.

I know the above from personal experience in taking 40 rounds of .600 ammo. It weighed just under 11 pounds but over when the hard case was included.

Be safe, stay under 11 pounds as logic may never enter the thinking of whom has the power.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
......................................

Be safe, stay under 11 pounds as logic may never enter the thinking of whom has the power.
Cal

Thinking back about all of my experiences with traffic officers, policemen, army corporals, railway ticket inspectors, airline check in officers I came to the conclusion that any person in any form of uniform, or with an official name tag displayed, totally looses all potential ability for logic whenever loosing such ability gives them more power!

quote:

It weighed just under 11 pounds but over when the hard case was included.

Speaking of hard cases, I never bothered with a lockable case to put the MTM boxes in before this year, but picked up a pelican lookalike on a whim. Maybe it was just bad luck, but every time I turned around someone was demanding to know whether I had a separate lockable case, and either wanting it out of the luggage if it was packed, or packed if it wasn't.

I've had my ammo weighed a few times, but usually they just ask.

If you read the stuff regarding special baggage on some airline sites I believe you'll find verbage that would indicate the ammo and what it's contained in has to weight no more than 11 lbs. That said, when I flew on Air France, the ammo was weighed out of my locked case but in the cardboard ammo boxes.

I have had my ammo weighed three different times on three trips to RSA. Once they weighed one of the four cardboard boxes of ammo and multiplied by four, the other two times they weighed the ammo and the locked box I had it in. When I asked whether it was just the ammo, or the ammo AND the locked box, the TSA agent said it included the box. I had made sure I was just under the 11 pound limit, box and all, BTW.

It's been a couple of years since my last trip 'cross the pond, however, on about 8 previous trips my ammo has not even been looked at, let alone weighed

On Air France it includes the container. Airlines can set any weight restrictions they want, with IATA guidelines being the maximum. Airlines do not have to accept firearms or ammunition.

Best to check the airline's web site for information and then print it out. Calling usually gets you someone who doesn't know a thing about it.

The regulations usually state that it included the container. Whether or not that includes the locked box is questionable. Always default to the lowest common denominator however when dealing with airline agents. It's not a TSA issue. It's an airline issue.

11 trips overseas to hunt, carrying my own rifles and ammo, and I've only been weighed once, that being on the first leg of my first trip to Africa, on American Airlines out of DFW to Miami. I've been asked if it's under 11 pounds almost every time however.

My ammo was weighed last year on SAA out of Dulles and this year on KLM out of Chicago. In both cases they had me take the ammo out of the pelican case and weighed the ammo in the 20 round cardboard boxes. I would plan it it being weighed.

I had my ammo weighed as well flying with SAA this past August. I know for a fact that 40 rounds of 25-06 and 60 rounds of Ruger 375 weighs in at 10#

In August I flew to Joburg on BA. My friend met me there flying SAA. I had my case weighed in Denver and it was over 11 pounds (which I knew) but I politely told the ticket agent that the weight policy was for ammo only. They weighed the ammo separately and all was fine.

As a side note on the same trip I flew to Port Elizabeth and SAA told me that I would be charged $25 for the ammo and it had to be out of my duffel bag. For the return flight I wasn't charged. We flew to Vic Falls on the same flight and neither of us was charged extra but he was told to put his ammo in his luggage and I was instructed to keep my ammo separate.

The bottom line is there is no rhyme or reason to how airlines handle ammo. I always put mine in a locked Pelican case so that it can survive the trip by itself because you never no what you are going to be instructed to do.

I firmly believe that the difference boils down to the individual you deal with at check in.

I weigh each box of ammo in grams and stick a yellow post-it with that weight on each box.
Gate clerk can add them up. More data can help in an instance where anything could happen.

Be sure to have a copy(s) of that airlines ammo and firearms rules printed out and with you at checkin. Also, be prepared for that gate clerk to take whatever copy of permit or rules with them and disappear in the back with it for good. Actual experience.

I asked that question of a very nice, and knowledgeable young lady with KLM in Houston last month and she said it did not include the weight of the lockbox container. I'd like to find a copy of a definitive regulation in that regard to carry just in case she is not on duty next time.

SAA weighed mine when I was departing Tambo for Bulawayo last year. They threw the whole thing on the scale and it was 13lbs. I instantly argued that the ammo was under 11 lbs and the mandatory locking case was 2 lbs. She let me put ammo only on scale and I was good to go.

I have had my Ammo weighed 2 times.

All was with in the allowable weight and that included the case i use.

AS some have suggested i weigh each box at the grocery store meet scales and they match up with the manufacturers weight listed on there web site.

I take a printed copy of what each box weighs and included this in my ammo box.

I also was asked to remove my ammo box from my luggage and it went separate in South Africa, however i was not charged for the this. if you check with there web site you are allowed this. I always have a name tag on my ammo case just in-case this happens again.

I learned in Seattle flying On KLM that your ammo is looked at closely.

I have made 15 trips to a Africa and back and have never had my ammo physically looked at or weighed on a variety of airlines and destinations. It is always in a locked (Pelican type) container just in case it has to go it alone, and rides in my checked duffel bag.

I attribute this good luck to being a supportive SCI (International) Life Member by the way.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International) Life Member

Gents:
I think it is also the airport one departs from. Leaving Alaksa, ammo and guns are not an issue except once. Since Delta takes me all the way to SA all is fine. When I rebook in some cities the weigh game begins such as on QANTAS on to OZ and back.
Cal

This question of allowable ammo weight is always interesting as I think the easiest way to avoid a problem is to take the amount of ammo necessary as opposed to what you are allowed.

I freely admit on my first couple of safaris I carried my 5kgs and had Sadie carry the same but I found I was bringing home far more ammo than I shot. These days regardless of what I'm hunting and how long the safari I just figure two boxes for the heavy and two for the PG rifle. That always has been more than enough ammo with plenty leftover just in case a scope was really out or I shot very poorly.

Mark

Looking at it another way, I was involved in the safari industry one way or another for 33 years & in all that time, I've only known ONE client run out of ammo & that was only because he shot so much at the range because he was the worst shot you could ever imagine. Not only could he not hit the target, he couldn't hit the box it was fixed to or the 6 metre wide anthill it was sat on. & even then, we were able to get him more ammo.

Let's also remember the restriction isn't to make your life difficult, it's to keep everyone on board the aircraft & beneath it safe & sound.

No names but was this hunter for Montreal, Canada by chance??

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
No names but was this hunter for Montreal, Canada by chance??

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
No names but was this hunter for Montreal, Canada by chance??

Nearly....... He was Russian & it turned out, a very secret drinker...... & although I never saw him drink in the day, he must have been because he was always as pissed as a rat.

He was also the only client I've ever threatened to send home. Not a pleasant man!

I have traveled 11 times to Africa 7 of which I had my ammo in a lockable sheet metal letters box in my checked bag ( SAA requirement). I have have never had it weighed. I have been required on 2 different occasions flying in South Africa to check it separately (no charge). I limit the weight of the box plastic cartridge boxes and 60 rounds of 375 ammo to 11 lbs just in case they want to weigh it . Would save the time and frustration of trying to explain the weight rule to some uninformed airline employee. If you cannot sight in your rifle and complete your hunt with 60 rounds you need a lot more target practice before you book an expensive Africa hunt

Funny thing in Co Spgs when they found I had double the wt of ammo in the suitcase in MTM boxes. I was told the rules and asked if I could just call my buddy to come pick it up. "sure thing ask for me".

When I got to JAX and opened it up. two boxes of 50rnds each had just been dumped loose in the suitcase, two calibers so I had some sorting to do.

He also let me pick out what ammo I needed and left the rest for Mike to pick up when he got back. He sure searched my suitcase and clothes well, most stuffed and wadded up too. I learned some lessons there and many more by reading these posts.
Many thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences. It helps if we can learn from each other ahead of time and avoid problems.
George