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Picture of Antlers
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I'm booking first class on British Airways to HRE from LAX and was wondering if there was a seating preference. Never done this before, but was thinking window might be better for sleeping - any opinion or preferences? I normally have an aisle seating preference.


Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"
 
Posts: 1990 | Location: AL | Registered: 13 February 2002Reply With Quote
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From my limited experience.....

If you're travelling alone, they'll probably put you in a window seat unless you ask otherwise, because they usually save the middle seats for couples. http://www.britishairways.com/...atfirst/public/en_gb

If you're also flying BA to HRE don't forget the arms embargo between Europe and the UK to Zim.

Wherever they put you in 1st, you'll be very comfortable indeed. tu2






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Antlers,

I've traveled first and business several times on BA and I would suggest window. You'll actually have nearly a whole little compartment to yourself. Put the seat flat and snooze all the way to Africa. There will be nobody to bug you other than the flight attendents.

Mark


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Posts: 13069 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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check what equipment you will be flying on, and then pick a seat:

www.seatguru.com
 
Posts: 42 | Location: The Glorious Democratic People's Republic of New Jersey | Registered: 04 August 2009Reply With Quote
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i took that flight via London last Oct. the plane is a 747 and the best seats are the 4 in row 2. doesn't really matter whether you take 2A or B on the port side or 2C or D on starboard( although I prefer the "aisle" seats). overall, try to get row 2 and avoid row 1


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Posts: 13577 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
If you're also flying BA to HRE don't forget the arms embargo between Europe and the UK to Zim.


Steve, what am I missing here????


Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"
 
Posts: 1990 | Location: AL | Registered: 13 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Antlers,
There's been some sh*T from BA about hunters bringing their guns through the UK and onto Zim...you should def. check into it. I want to say there's been some post about it here in the travel section!





 
Posts: 732 | Location: Texas | Registered: 05 October 2009Reply With Quote
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Antlers,
I really prefer the upstairs (747), much, much quieter. Try to get as close to the cockpit as possible, as there is less activity and easier to sleep. On the other hand the closer to the stairs you get the faster you get off the plane to go thru customs. BUT...most BA flights out of London (except Joburg) fly 767's I think they are. Then just get forward as far and a window seat. still pretty quiet.

Steve


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3614 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
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Thanks for all the tips folks!

Re the issue BA and guns into Zim, technically, I'd be flying BA into Joberg and Comair into Zim. Does that solve the potential problem?

I did a search and saw one indirect reference to this issue, but nothing firm. Steve, is there something on your website?


Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"
 
Posts: 1990 | Location: AL | Registered: 13 February 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Antlers:
Thanks for all the tips folks!

Re the issue BA and guns into Zim, technically, I'd be flying BA into Joberg and Comair into Zim. Does that solve the potential problem?

I did a search and saw one indirect reference to this issue, but nothing firm. Steve, is there something on your website?


We were told that firearms are prohibited on BA if you book all the way thru to Zim they will not allow the firearms on the plane (even if you use Comair -BA partner) the key seems to be if you book all the way thru....we are flying delta to Joburg and then Comair to Vic Falls. We had a small problem with Comair agents and our firearms, we finally got a supervisor and found out they do not allow "firearms" but they do allow "sporting firearms"...go figure. We got this supervisor to commit this policy in writing via email.


Karl Evans

 
Posts: 2923 | Location: Emhouse, Tx | Registered: 03 February 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:

Re the issue BA and guns into Zim, technically, I'd be flying BA into Joberg and Comair into Zim. Does that solve the potential problem?

I did a search and saw one indirect reference to this issue, but nothing firm. Steve, is there something on your website?


The European Union has a ban on the export of any weapons, including sporting weapons, to Zimbabwe and this includes US citizens transiting through any European Union country.

It is still possible to use British Airways but you will be required to make two separate reservations and purchase two separate tickets. One ticket from the US to Johannesburg and a totally separate ticket and reservation from Johannesburg to Zimbabwe. Under no circumstances must the Johannesburg/Harare ticket be in the same reservation as the US to Johannesburg flights. To avoid British Airways having a chance of finding the Zimbabwe reservation I recommend you book the South African Airways flights Johannesburg to/return from Harare.

When you check-in with British Airways you will check your baggage/firearms to Johannesburg only and will be required to clear South African Customs and Immigration and obtain the necessary "in-transit" firearms permit. Once you have your permit go to international departures and check-in for your onward flight to Zimbabwe.

It is extremely important British Airways is unaware your final destination is Zimbabwe because they will not transport your firearms/ammunition if they do find out.

Hopefully I have made the work-around clear enough, if not please contact me and I would be glad to go over it with you step by step.


Steve Turner
Travel With Guns
210-858-9833
steve@travelwithguns.com

www.travelwithguns.com
 
Posts: 138 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Steve has it right and you'll find all the airline firearms regulations etc at the bottom of this page: http://www.shakariconnection.c...l-with-firearms.html

Also bear in mind that BA are usually hotter than most other airlines on the 'ex-military calibre' regulations.

FWIW, I've heard rumours they're going to relax that a bit but so far, haven't seen anthing in writing and therefore, caution is advised.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Steve: Does BA consider 30-06 ex military ammunition?
 
Posts: 1138 | Location: St. Thomas, VI | Registered: 04 July 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Antlers,
There's been some sh*T from BA about hunters bringing their guns through the UK and onto Zim...you should def. check into it. I want to say there's been some post about it here in the travel section!


Folks,

Please understand that BA is only implimenting the EU ban on transporting firearms to Zim. None of this is their company policy.

Regarding the seperate tickets and reservations its a pretty simple matter but better handled by an agent such as Steve Turner, Gracy Travel etc. It does offer one advantage in that you'll have to claim your luggage and guns in JNB and physically check them onto the Zim flight. You then will know your luggage at least made it to JNB.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
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Posts: 13069 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
Steve: Does BA consider 30-06 ex military ammunition?


Yes but a lot depends on the individual staff member who handles the customer. Sometimes they don't even comment.... I assume because they don't know how or don't bother to check the list of forbidden calibres.

FWIW, we've even had more than one client told (in advance because we tell them to check in advance) that .308 is also forbidden. I've even gone as far as to call the senior duty risk assessor at LHR to argue my case but once they refuse the buggers don't budge.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Gracy can arrange an addition to the record allowing 30-06, 308 etc. I've done it.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
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Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
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Posts: 13069 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Gracy can arrange an addition to the record allowing 30-06, 308 etc. I've done it.

Mark


Mark,

Hope you don't mind me correcting you there. You might think you've arranged something because you asked and a client got away with it but in reality, your request won't have achieved anything (esp with BA staff at LHR who are a right bunch of bastards)..... he'll just have got away with it as many do.

The Air Navigation Order (insert country name) (Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act) state that commercial airlines are not permitted to carry 'weapons of war' and then lists all calibres, (including 30.06 & .308) that have ever been used as such.

No 'addition to the record' can or will alter those laws. (NOT regulations)

Sure someone can do things like add a comment to the comments section of the booking asking for the firearm to be carried but (IMO)that only draws attention to the situation.

One can also ask the travel agent to enter the comment 'Travelling with SPORTING firearms' to differentiate from weapons of war' but one should always do that anyway.

Most airlines will pretty much apply a bit of logic to that part of the law nowadays but as we all know BA are a bit tight arsed and also a lot of Brits are anti hunting and those things combined mean there's more chance of it being applied by BA than with other airlines. However, technically speaking all airlines should observe that law. (Even though it is as silly as a barrel full of monkeys!)

Incidentally, BA also require 72 hours notice that a passenger is travelling with firearms so that's another good reason to ask the travel agent to enter the comment 'Travelling with SPORTING firearms' and to take a hard copy of that with you when you travel.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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I have to agree with Steve on this - it depends on whom you first speak to at British Airways whether or not they will accept these calibers for carriage.

Mark is also correct in the fact British Airways Security Office in London, who handle and authorize the carriage of sporting weapons on BA, do have the ability to authorize the carriage of these calibers provided it is very clearly stated they are used for sporting purposes only. Everything is governed by the Open General Transhipment Licence (Sporting Guns)

In the past I have had BA authorize and carry these calibers for clients however, there are some further restrictions to which country they will carry them over and above the countries on the banned list. As an example Tazania is not on the banned list but BA will not accept "military" firarms for carriage to it.


Steve Turner
Travel With Guns
210-858-9833
steve@travelwithguns.com

www.travelwithguns.com
 
Posts: 138 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Mark is also correct in the fact British Airways Security Office in London, who handle and authorize the carriage of sporting weapons on BA, do have the ability to authorize the carriage of these calibers provided it is very clearly stated they are used for sporting purposes only. Everything is governed by the Open General Transhipment Licence (Sporting Guns)


This is what I was referring to but did not know the exact terminology. I never try to "get away with" anything concerning African travel. There simply is too much at stake to not do what is legal.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
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Posts: 13069 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Steve,

It's actually governed by the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act) which is an international piece of legislation that came into being in (I think) the 1940s. The idea of it was to ensure an aircraft can't leave one country with a consignment that legal in one country and arrive in another country where it's illegal and the same piece of legislation applies to all dangerous goods from black powder explosive to radioactive materials to poisons to flammable when wet etc.

The act is adopted by the various countries and they usually insert the name of the country in brackets after the word order and before the word carriage.

The person in BA who has some but not much say in what may or may not travel and who makes the ultimate decison when there is any doubt is the Senior Risk Assessor on duty at the time. However, he or she will ALWAYS refer to the same act in cases of doubt.

The transhipment licence you mention is issued by the office of the Secretary of State and although you're welcome to try, you'll find that they're not interested at all in individual people or individual firearms and will take forever to do anything anyway.

I'm going from memory on this but but you'll also find that DOT can have some say but the same rules as above apply.

Mark,

I wasn't suggesting you tried or would try to do anything illegal. My point was that you probably asked the travel agent or someone to request some kind of waiver and the passenger didn't have any problems with taking an ex military calibre and so thought the request had been favoured..... nothing more than that.

To my eyes, the biggest problem is that a large percentage of Brits are anti hunting and if the check in agent thinks they can find a way to stop you travelling with firearms they very often will.

The whole thing is actually nothing more than a ridiculous anachronism and one we could all well do without but sadly I can't see it changing in the foreseeable future.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Steve you are correct regarding the Dangerous Goods information. I checked with BA Security in London and they advised they are able to approve the carriage of the "munitions of war" MUW's as they refer to these caliber of firearms provided there are no embargos and other requirements.

BA Security in London replied as follows :
quote:
. If the weapon(s) are approved as SWP, no comments will be input by this office. If, however, they are classified as MUW, then a CAA Dispensation number will be annotated in the PNR. The only other time there will be any comments by this office will be if there are any queries, or if they are refused due an embargo.


Hope this helps.


Steve Turner
Travel With Guns
210-858-9833
steve@travelwithguns.com

www.travelwithguns.com
 
Posts: 138 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Steve

I'm a bit confused by that message from BA. If they mean they will now allow ex military calibres to be carried, my comments are:

If you can get that on headed paper or forward the email to me with name of sender and email address I'd be very interested in having it because firstly it's a VERY useful change of policy secondly it'll be a VERY good arguing point when those tossers at LHR give people hassle and thirdly we'll add the wording but not the name and email address to our website which we're just updating and revamping anyway.

My email address is shakari3@mweb.co.za

Thanks in advance

If however, they mean they may carry MUW IF it's for military use and either the pax or they can provide a dispensation number, then they're saying pretty much what I'm saying..... either way, I'd like to see a copy of the message if you can forward it to me please.

My skype is down at the moment but as and when it comes back I'll also try to call the duty senior risk assessor at LHR for clarification.

Incidentally, Susan sent you an email sometime ago but we never heard back from you......






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Steve - email on it's way to you!


Steve Turner
Travel With Guns
210-858-9833
steve@travelwithguns.com

www.travelwithguns.com
 
Posts: 138 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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And replied to buddy! tu2






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Better yet, just fly SAA all the way from Washington.

Or Emirates, or Ethiopian into Johannesburg,

Skip BA completely.

Les
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Clearwater, FL and Union Pier, MI | Registered: 24 July 2003Reply With Quote
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I can't find the prohibited calibers
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/uksi_20093015_en_14
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The Air Navigation Order 2009 Civil Aviation UK Statutory InstrumentsPART 18

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.Expand All Explanatory Notes (ENs)
PART 18

Dangerous Goods, Weapons and Munitions of War

Carriage of dangerous goods
132.—(1) The Secretary of State may make regulations prescribing—

(a)
the classification of certain articles and substances as dangerous goods; .
(b)
the categories of dangerous goods which an aircraft may not carry; .
(c)
the conditions which apply to the loading on, suspension beneath and carriage by an aircraft of dangerous goods; .
(d)
the manner in which dangerous goods must be packed, marked, labelled and consigned before being loaded on, suspended beneath or carried by an aircraft; .
(e)
any other provisions for securing the safety of aircraft and any apparatus attached to aircraft, and the safety of persons and property on the surface in relation to the loading on, suspension beneath or carriage by an aircraft of dangerous goods; .
(f)
the persons to whom information about the carriage of dangerous goods must be provided; .
(g)
the documents which must be produced to the CAA or an authorised person on request; and .
(h)
the powers to be conferred on an authorised person relating to the enforcement of the regulations made under this article. .
(2) It is an offence to contravene or permit the contravention of or fail to comply with any regulations made under this article.

(3) The provisions of this article and of any regulations made under this article are additional to and not in derogation from articles 133 and 134.

Carriage of weapons and of munitions of war – requirement for permission and for commander to be informed
133.—(1) This article applies to any aircraft other than an EU-OPS aeroplane on a commercial air transport flight.

(2) Subject to article 135(1) and (3), an aircraft must not carry any munition of war unless—

(a)
the munition of war is carried with the permission of the CAA; and .
(b)
the commander of the aircraft is informed in writing by the operator before the flight commences of the type, weight or quantity and location of any munition of war on board or suspended beneath the aircraft and any conditions of the permission of the CAA. .
(3) Subject to article 135(2) and (3), it is unlawful for an aircraft to carry any sporting weapon or munition of war in any compartment or apparatus to which passengers have access.

Prohibition on carrying on board sporting weapons or munitions of war
134.—(1) Subject to article 135(2) and (3), it is unlawful for a person to carry or have in their possession or take or cause to be taken on board an aircraft, to suspend or cause to be suspended beneath an aircraft or to deliver or cause to be delivered for carriage on an aircraft any sporting weapon or munition of war unless the provisions of paragraph (2) are complied with.

(2) The provisions referred to in paragraph (1) are that—

(a)
the sporting weapon or munition of war— .
(i)
is either part of the baggage of a passenger on the aircraft or consigned as cargo; .
(ii)
is carried in a part of the aircraft, or in any apparatus attached to the aircraft inaccessible to passengers; and .
(iii)
in the case of a firearm, is unloaded; .
(b)
information about the sporting weapon or munition of war has been supplied by that passenger or by the consignor to the operator before the flight commences; and .
(c)
the operator consents to the carriage of such sporting weapon or munition of war by the aircraft. .
Exceptions concerning carriage of weapons and munitions of war
135.—(1) In the case of an aircraft which is flying under and in accordance with the terms of a police air operator’s certificate the commander of the aircraft must be informed of the matters referred to in article 133(2)(b) but need not be so informed in writing.

(2) Article 133(3) and article 134 do not apply to or in relation to an aircraft which is flying under and in accordance with the terms of a police air operator’s certificate.

(3) Nothing in this Part applies to any sporting weapon or munition of war taken or carried on board an aircraft registered in a country other than the United Kingdom if the sporting weapon or munition of war may under the law of the country in which the aircraft is registered be lawfully taken or carried on board for the purpose of ensuring the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board.

Definitions
136. In this Part—

(a)
‘munition of war’ means— .
(i)
any weapon or ammunition; .
(ii)
any article containing an explosive, noxious liquid or gas; or .
(iii)
any other thing, .
which is designed or made for use in warfare or against persons, including parts, whether components or accessories, for such weapon, ammunition or article;
(b)
‘sporting weapon’ means— .
(i)
any weapon or ammunition; .
(ii)
any article containing an explosive, noxious liquid or gas; or .
(iii)
any other thing, including parts, whether components or accessories, for such weapon, ammunition or article, .
which is not a munition of war.
 
Posts: 72 | Location: Annapolis MD | Registered: 24 July 2009Reply With Quote
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As Les says, better to travel with other airlines if at all possible.

Steve and I have been working together on this for the last few days and at the moment, it looks like BA are doing a degree of hedging...... probably either because they don't know their own regulations and are bullshitting or because they know that every check in agent is going to have their own take on it.


If and when we do manage to get a definitive answer we'll post the news.

I should also say that the BA website isn't very clear either. For example, they're usually red hot on ammo being in a separate locked metal box etc and there's now a mention on the site that ammo can go in the rifle case. Roll Eyes






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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.30-06 is illegal but I wonder if they would accept a .30 WCF? Wink



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Thanks to shakari for alerting me to this; and thanks to Steve Turner for the assistance.


Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"
 
Posts: 1990 | Location: AL | Registered: 13 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Frankly, the easy answer is not to travel BA if there's another alternative that can carry firearms.........






 
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