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I went to the DFW Airport CBP office today to get a "new" 4457 for a rifle I'm taking to Zim next month and had a nicely pre-filled form with all of the info neatly typed. The officer I dealt with didn't want to use it and I had to fill another form out in their office. Two things that were new to me this time...they required my DL number on the form and the officer made a copy and asked me to put it in the gun case I was carrying on my hunt so that the CBP officers in the baggage area wouldn't need to call me to show a 4457 (don't know how the hell they could see it in the baggage area unless they can see it on xray or have an SKB key)as my gun case went thru the baggage area. He also suggested I keep a copy in my wallet or on my person in case the airlines wanted to see. After he spoke about the airlines, I recalled that when checking in on Qatar last year, they did ask to see my 4457. Seems to be getting more complicated every year. Karl Evans | ||
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Karl, The real frustration with the 4457 is there is no consistency from one CBP office/officer to another. I had a CBP agent here in LV tell me without questions that one of my clients needed a new 4457 for every gun on every trip. Reality is you need the latest version of the 4457 only, that's what my client had and he had no issues throughout his trip. I have a feeling the DL # was something cooked up by an over jealous CBP officer. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I always brougham 5 copies of the 4457. Everyone with a badge at all airports wanted a copy. I also put a copy on my SKB case and the separate and locked ammo case. I always put rifle and ammo on the 4457. Yes, every place seems to have their own procedures. Part of the justification for all this is the practice of leaving rifles in the Country traveling to (gifts, tips, sale). The Feds do not like this bc it is international trade in arms with no exemption for such practice. Yet, someone was asking last year about leaving a rifle for his PH in county. You cannot as a visiting sportsperson leave the rifle. | |||
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I think you are 100% correct, last year at DFW just prior to boarding, 3 CBP officers showed up at the gate and located 4 other travelers who had checked rifles (had photos of the guys), they asked for their 4457’s. I figured I was next and already had mine in hand but wasn’t asked. Being inquisitive, I asked one of the CBP guys and was told that the rifle I had checked in baggage had already been out of the country and brought back several times. I was told that DFW had the most “non-returning” firearms and that is why they increased checks, this from a CBP officer. Karl Evans | |||
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How (legally) do they know if you leave a rifle behind? All they are "supposed" to be doing when they check your serial number in the computer is checking your rifle against the stolen gun data base????? We do not (at this time anyway) have firearm registration in the US! The 4457 is "supposed" to only be proof that the rifle you are bringing back is the one you took out of the country........ . | |||
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In my first two trips to zim in 2010 and 2011 I did not take a 4457. I had no idea what 4457 was. At JFK I just told them who brings a rifle into the us illegally and I had my NYC rifle permit with me. They just let me back in. I would under no circumstances leave or gift a rifle to anyone outside the US. I would never leave a rifle up behind in Africa. Rifles are controlled by federal law and requires state department weapons export permits. The US govt for sure is keeping a closer view on guns leaving the US even for hunting. Last few times getting 4457 has not been sure easy. They have asked for flight info ect. Even when I come back from Panama or Asia when I am fishing at times I have been asked if I have any firearms. I am flagged somewhere in the system for traveling with firearms. I asked about it on my global entry renewal interview. Did not get a clear answer. Mike | |||
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K Evans - You drew the short straw and got someone who clearly had no clue about the process or what he was supposed to be doing. Unfortunately, we are too often at the mercy of such people. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I will put in a plug, to get the 4457 done at small customs offices. Lubec Maine is my current favorite. Charleston WV was also good. Smaller the better. Call ahead, be friendly. | |||
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I asked that question and was told that the airlines notify them of your return. I suppose one could fly back on a different airline, I know for sure that they can tell if you have taken a particular firearm out of the country before. I learned that in 2019 when they checked several passengers at the gate, didn’t check me, and told me that they knew I had taken and returned with the same rifle previously. Karl Evans | |||
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Good morning Karl. Did CBP insist you needed an AES number with you 4457? Safe travels......Larry | |||
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Mike, I believe the short straw is the entire DFW area CBP policy, same thing happens if you get the 4457 at Love Field or Addison CBP offices (by appointment only). After it happened last time I asked the congressman whose district encompassed DFW (Ron Wright, recently passed away) and his office was told that the officers followed policy. I think it’s due to the number of firearms leaving DFW and not returning. I wouldn’t take a chance on leaving a firearm. Karl Evans | |||
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No sir, they did not. Thank goodness. Karl Evans | |||
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I fly out of Boise ID and have never had anyone check 4457 on way out. Was informed at Boise customs that I did not need new (dated 4457) unless I was traveling to country that required it. Went to Moz via Portugal spring of 2019 with old style , havent traveled sense. | |||
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4457 form. CBP has looked at my 4457 on return from all trips that I have taken. Granted I have taken the same rifle for each trip. However on one trip I had taken a Shotgun and had the 4457 for it. I have secured the latest and greatest new 4457 for each trip. Be careful on what you put on your 4457. CBP are looking for individuals who are leaving items (exporting items) in foreign countries. Some laws that they are looking to enforce on exporting Guns and Ammunition. If you list something you will need to produce the item when asked. Found that out the hard way, I had a 4457 for my range finder, binoculars, movie camera on one trip (all new equipment). I needed to produce and show each item for them. They informed me they only want the rifle information on the 4457, and each rifle needed a separate 4457, they could care less about the scope or ammunition being on the form. However if listed on your 4457 you have to produce it. So listing ammunition on a 4457, how do you plan to produce it (after you have shot it) when asked by CBP. The information that I received from CBP is you only list items to show ownership, that makes entry easier on your return. To not have items that you listed on your 4457, results in them thinking you exported the item(s). So that open up another round of discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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Sorry to hear that. All it takes is one misguided or malicious bureaucrat in the wrong place for that kind of thing to happen. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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TWG advised me to update the 4457s I was planning to use for my Uganda Safari in March. They said Emirates might have a problem with them since they show an expiration date of 2019. I'll get new ones to avoid any hassles. | |||
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I have a slightly different take on this. I don't think CBP tracks what you leave the country with, only what you come back with. Let me qualify where I'm coming from. I flew out of Dulles last year on Ethiopian and was able to watch closely the entire inspection of my firearm all the way up to the point it was put on the baggage belt to be loaded on the plane. I was never asked for my 4457 and nobody ever looked at the serial number. The case was opened and the contents checked, but no information was written down nor any entries by personnel into a computer.The only time I have been asked for the 4457 in the U.S. is upon return during the customs inspection at my first Port of Entry. Though it seems this process may vary from airport to airport. | |||
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Cincinnati/Northern KY and Atlanta have always taken a copy of my 4457. I guess they are sitting in a drawer somewhere. They also religiously out and in check serial numbers. When this started to happen with Dallas what I posted about folks leaving firearms was the reason given by folks in contact with DC and NRA for that stupid State Department registration thing that is not set up for you nor I to comply with. When I informed that gentleman wanting to leave his rifle with his PH that we were fighting this battle because of that practice he told me he could do what he wanted and to mind my own business. I responded he asked on a public forum how to do it. There is no exception from registering as international arms dealer/trade with State Department and the formalities of exporting the rifle for sport or tourists US hunters to leave rifles in country. Yet, people keep doing it. The Feds are not happy. | |||
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My experience as well. With well over 20 trips to Africa with guns I have never had to present a 4457 upon departure..... Sounds like the problem is DFW. . | |||
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I have been pulled out of line twice now upon boarding in Atlanta (once on Delta/KLM and once on Turkish). Customs took me back in a room, had my rifle there and checked it against my 4457 the same as they would coming back into the US. They gave me no trouble, but they did check my rifle before I left. So don't ever be surprised. Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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I usually have to do so to board Emirates at George Bush in Houston, not always but several times. As Tim pointed out, be prepared... not surprised. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Karl Evans | |||
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I have been pulled off the plane to show my 4457 after showing at check in against the rifle SN. They were nice about it. | |||
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Every time I flew International out of Seattle BA had to call CBP to come check my 4457 and that was many years ago. MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Oh, yes Seattle. My 4457 was checked at the check in counter, Plus they wanted to see your firearms permits for the countries you were flying through if you needed a permit and the country you were going to. The different permits I had, one was a faxed copy and the other I was able to print that was sent to me by e mail, and the check in person wanted to have originals not faxed copies. I had to ask for a supervisor to go over the different permits that I had, before I could move on. This was almost an hour of time spend doing this. Now I walked my luggage and firearm down to be scanned, went through no problem and was given a thumbs up. Now I head to my international gate. Well, my firearms tuff park and check bags were scanned again. A flag went up. Now they wanted to check my ammo lock box and needed my key. I made it to the international terminal, produced my keys for them to check my cases. They returned my keys as I was boarding the airplane, every thing was fine. I was right at the weight limit for the ammo and my ammo case. On Returning to Seattle, I hit the lottery and was a lucky one who had to empty all by bags for CBP to search, and search they did. CBP asked for my 4457's and I produced the 4457 for the different items, I was tipped off that I probably would need 4457's for the items when I returned from my trip, and I secured them. I had the Ziess and Lieca binoculars on the same 4457 and I could not locate the Ziess binoculars in my luggage. However, My sister was along on the trip and the Ziess Binoculars were in her bag. She had not left the area and was able to bring them over for CBP to verify. I was the last one to leave the area that day. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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Regarding Seattle, we returned thru there from a mountain goat hunt in British Columbia and I was apprehensive about going they customs, several guys had told me horror stories of being grilled about firearms, scopes, binos, etc.. I was prepared to spend an hour or so but was pleasantly surprised when I was called to the CBP window and the officer asked a few questions, handed me my 4457 and passport and told me to have a safe trip. I was pretty surprised, I guess a lot depends on the officer you get. Karl Evans | |||
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This expansive interpretation and warped enforcement of an innocuous requirement are ridiculous. Traveling hunters, with hunting rifles, contribute zero percent to international arms smuggling. To suggest otherwise is absurd. The entire and only legitimate purpose of a Form 4457 is so that one can prove he left the US with the same firearm (or any other item with a serial number) he is bringing back. A bill of sale can be used for the same purpose. These bureaucrats need to be put on a short leash - preferably one with a choke collar. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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People were leaving guns behind under no circumstances are you allowed to do that. Such by definition is smuggling. That State Department/ENS regulation that keeps popping up is a death nail. The system is not set up for anyone to be able to comply. It needs fought like Breeds Hill. However, leaving firearms is a problem. The 4457 itself is a God send to traveling hunters bc the destination countries with in country license and permit requirements for possession of firearms treat the 4457 as your US firearms permit. That is not so, but we need the destination country to think so. | |||
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With all due respect, that’s like being locked in a cage, then being grateful when the jailer gives you the wrong key to get out. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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With all due respect, what else are you going to do? Bring your copies. Smile and be polite. Shack hands, and go have a good time. Oh, and do not leave rifles in Country. | |||
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Very well stated! My sentiments exactly! . | |||
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That's some convoluted logic there pard...... . | |||
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Well...CBP didn't check my 4457 at the gate at DFW, I'm pretty sure I was the only passenger that had checked a firearm, the TSA guy that inspected my rifle told me that mine was the first firearm he had checked this month (at his assigned station) and that he normally inspected 10-20 per week, but not this or last year. Doesn't bode well for overseas outfitters unless most hunters are using camp rifles. I watched him record the swab info on a clipboard and mine was the first entry. He did not enter the serial number in a computer nor did he write it down. Check in with Qatar was easy as when we walked up to the check in line a supervisor came and escorted us to the head of the line saying my "special item" earned us extra service. They did require copies of my 4457, passport, outfitter invitation letter and negative covid test. I had copies of each, so that saved a bit of time. I was not surprised at the number or people that did not have the proper covid test, guess they flew the next day. CBP checked each passenger on the jetway and our flight was delayed about 40 minutes while 9 people's luggage was removed because CBP had detained them. I suspect we will get the same treatment when we check in to come home, too. Karl Evans | |||
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Anymore, I rent gun at destinations and travel only with carry on and backpack You gentlemen should try it, you will feel free like the bird " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Nope!!! | |||
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Half the enjoyment of the hunt is to use one's own weapons and getting prepared with those weapons. Also, I do not think I would trust the camp rifles and ammo for DG, not to mention LOP, cast etc. would be a crap shoot. Plus I am a lefty. | |||
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Earlier today, I visited the local CBP office to process a few 4457's (rifles and scopes). The CBP agent was a very professional and courteous young lady. After comparing the serial numbers on my completed 4457 forms against the rifles' serial numbers, she asked when I was departing. I advised her that I was departing in August and that I was traveling to Zimbabwe, my favorite holiday destination. She nodded in acknowledgment and responded "Yes, I saw that on the computer". DSC Life Member HSC Life Member NRA Life Member SCI RMEF | |||
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Best deal is to hunt with friends that have good hunting and have bought one of your own rifles that you can borrow.  MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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FYI, I was asked for a 4457 for my Z6i scope by CBP departing and returning to George Bush from Uganda on Emirates. I normally do not get a 4457 for my glass. Both times I was told that this could be a problem in the future. | |||
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Interesting. To date I have never been accosted by CBP asking for 4457s. Now, once they came to me at the gate waiting area when I was in my 20s and headed to Amsterdam and asked to search my briefcase, even rifled through books. Maybe they thought I was carrying a lot of $$$$ for a drug deal  | |||
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