Ethiopian Airlines - WARNING!! They would not let me take any ammo home, but they allowed the ammo into Tanzania - bizarre. The ammo was intially checked on United in the USA and was transfered to Ethiopian Airlines in Washington DC (Dulles).

This cost me 80 loaded cartridges and 20 empty cases valued at ~$650.00. The ammo and/or components are worth even more in Tanzania.

My overall impression of Ethiopian Airlines is that they are borderline incompetent.

Be careful about booking Ethiopian AL.

Ouch. Although I plan to shoot all mine up, that would sure get me a little excited. Will be flying South African IAD to JHB and Vic Falls and have not heard of like issues.

Yep terrible airline
Read my evaluation
They don't have a clue how to run an airline
Larry

Not to be a smartass, but why in the world did you take over 100 rounds of ammo to begin with? What caliber, how many hunting days and you were a solo shooter? What was the weight of those 100 rounds going and the 80 coming back? I have never taken that much ammo on 18 safaris, most of at least 20 hunting days, even back in the day, when I took 3 firearms on numerous trips.

And your remarks are relevant how??

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
And your remarks are relevant how??

My remarks are relevant because AIU may have been over the 5Kg weight limit for ammunition, and if so, that may have been what caused the problem. Something caused the forfeiture. And I doubt his ammo was weighed by UAL in the USA and it was certainly not weighed when transferred to EA in Washington, D.C..

Example:
100 rounds of .300wm weighs 9.75 lb in cardboard boxes.
100 rounds of .458Lott = 14.25 lb in plastic boxes.
A 50-50 split of the above would still be over 5Kg.

It is relatively easy to exceed the 11 lb limit if you do not weigh your ammo, particularly when mixing calibers for PG and DG. For instance, attempting to return with 80 rounds of .458Lott would still be over the allowable limit.

Trying to diagnose the cause of any such incident is ultimately important to all of us who travel with firearms and ammunition. On the other hand, it's africa and sometimes they don't need a reason.

LionHunter,

I was not over the weight limit, and even if I was, I should take everything home under the weight limit. One box was empty cases - not heavy at all.

You go ahead and book with Ethiopian Airlines. Your problems are not mine, I'm just giving a warning to African hunters - those who listen.

I've put in an official communication to Ethiopian asking for an explanation of their "munitions" policies - so has Steve of "Travel with Guns."

I don't know what their ammo weight limit policies are, but apparently going to Tanzania with 100 rounds of fully loaded ammo was OK, but for some bizarre reason not even an ounce of ammo returning to the USA was OK. Thus far, I've received no response and I doubt I ever will.

By the way, Tanzania law stipulates that 200 rounds per rifle is OK for hunting purposes.


Regards, AIU

AIU-

Take a deep breath. I am not advocating EA nor am I intending to book with them - ever.

The 5Kg ammo limit has nothing to do with individual airline policy nor country regulations. It is an IATA regulation and has existed since before I began transporting ammunition internationally in the last century.

All airlines are required to conform with this IATA regulation. If your ammo isn't weighed, and many times it won't be, then the airlines has no idea if you are in compliance or not. So there really is no argument with how many rounds you took into Tanzania, but rather what the weight was when you departed. Ammo has been confiscated for being over the 5Kg limit before and will be again, as long as people fail to comply with the weight limit.

Like you, I am only trying to advise traveling hunters, who may not understand the IATA regulation, so that they may avoid the unfortunate situation you experienced. And I am NOT saying your weight limit was the problem, only that it might have been. It's africa.

BTW, there are small handheld digital scales for weighing luggage, including ammo. I began using one a few years ago after my wife exceeded the 50# limit on two successive trips. I now keep it in my carry-on bag and it goes everywhere I travel, including on safari.

Good luck on finding a resolution. I doubt you will recover anything from EA, unfortunately.

My wife and I flew Ethiopian in January with no problems, at all.
They were competent and pleasant. We had Ethiopian cuisine as an option on one of the main meals.
Our plane was an old one, because of some current problems....we saw their parked Dreamliners on the Tarmac in Addis.

So, a pleasant trip all-in-all.

Oh, BTW, we flew business and I am a Bowhunter, so life is simpler that way.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Not to be a smartass, but why in the world did you take over 100 rounds of ammo to begin with? What caliber, how many hunting days and you were a solo shooter? What was the weight of those 100 rounds going and the 80 coming back? I have never taken that much ammo on 18 safaris, most of at least 20 hunting days, even back in the day, when I took 3 firearms on numerous trips.

No safari was ever ruined by too much ammo.


http://www.sportsafield.com/no...afield/how-much-ammo

United will not allow you to check a firearm if connecting to Ethiopian Air ... or any airline apart from SAA. At least that's what they told me (and I checked with their management after the fact). Ethiopian has no problem with firearms though, if you start your travels with them.

FWIW, the 5 kg limit was originally instigated just after WWII as part of the Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous goods Act and the act applies worldwide. It has also been incorporated into other legislation but that was the original and is still the overriding legislation worldwide. nd to removing this

That legislation incidentally also prohibited carriage of any calibre that has ever been officially adopted by any military force in the world. Technically, this prohibited such calibres as 30.06 & .308 etc. The good news is they finally got around to removing this out of date prohibition a few years ago.

One should remember the 5 kg limit isn't there to make hunter's lives difficult but to ensure the aircraft remains safe for all on board and all on the ground.

Also, please remember that the carriage of any and all black powder/black powder substitutes & detonators in ANY form and/or container is strictly prohibited on any and all commercial aircraft.

So the 5k is for the safety of all passengers - how so. One hunter = 5k, 10hunters = 50k, 50 hunters - 250k, 100 hunters = 500k assuming all are rifle hunters. It is a bureaucratic F*ck up.

You were operating in the land of 'gubo' alias 'baksheesh'. EWA, my friend. You got to hunt, right? Take it as a win (or Ethiopia Wins Again).

14 1/2 years there for me, as a kid. EAL had a sterling reputation back in the day...

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
So the 5k is for the safety of all passengers - how so. One hunter = 5k, 10hunters = 50k, 50 hunters - 250k, 100 hunters = 500k assuming all are rifle hunters. It is a bureaucratic F*ck up.

It is indeed a bureaucratic f*ck up but it's a bureaucratic f*ck up that was created for very good reason. The limit was originally instigated on the principle of the damage one 5 kg package of ammo can do to the structure of an aircraft when it's in the air which is why passengers are not allowed to combine ammo allowances into one bag and also why the aforementioned act and all load and balance manuals stipulate bags containing ammo must be spread apart from each other when loaded into the hold and that same principle was applied when they banned ALL BP, BP substitutes & detonators from commercial aircraft.

IIRC, there is no stipulation that a set maximum percentage of passengers with ammo be accepted for an individual flight because they figured it wasn't required.

The same act also has has an immense number of other restrictions such as what material can go next to what other material in the same or adjacent compartment or hold. for example, if a material is classified as flammable when wet, it may not go into the same compartment as a material that is frozen etc....... Just in case the latter defrosts and ignites the former.

It's also a bureaucratic f*ck up that has worked perfectly because AFAIK there's not a single aircraft that has crashed due to smokeless ammo ignition since the act was introduced immediately after WWII.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
LionHunter,

I was not over the weight limit, and even if I was, I should take everything home under the weight limit. One box was empty cases - not heavy at all.

You go ahead and book with Ethiopian Airlines. Your problems are not mine, I'm just giving a warning to African hunters - those who listen.

I've put in an official communication to Ethiopian asking for an explanation of their "munitions" policies - so has Steve of "Travel with Guns."

I don't know what their ammo weight limit policies are, but apparently going to Tanzania with 100 rounds of fully loaded ammo was OK, but for some bizarre reason not even an ounce of ammo returning to the USA was OK. Thus far, I've received no response and I doubt I ever will.

By the way, Tanzania law stipulates that 200 rounds per rifle is OK for hunting purposes.


Regards, AIU

We are all on your side. The issue is usually the weight, not the number of rounds. All airlines from the civilized world adhere to the 5 kilo limit. I took scales with me to keep this from being an issue.

I hate getting the ammo tax in several countries at $1 or $2 per round.

FWIW, empty cases should not come into the equation at all because they're NOT loaded rounds & the restriction ONLY applies to LOADED rounds.

Every regulation is for "a very good reason" in some body's mind. "IRIC, there is no stipulation that a set maximum percentage of passengers with ammo be accepted for an individual flight because they figured it wasn't required." Well these regs were set in the 1940s and things do change. How many hunters were flying in those days. As to all these regs I remember hunters carrying on rifles in soft cases and hanging them in the passenger compartments.

Ed

The original intention of the act was to control the returning military at the end of WWII to ensure there was a degree of control on the amount and type of weaponry they bought back with them so was not originally intended for hunters at all...... and I agree that things do change and have changed dramatically since that time but it's not me that writes the regulations.

It should be noted that it was only 2 or 3 years ago that they changed the act to allow hunters to travel with ex military calibres such as 30.06 & .308 etc and my guess is they only changed that because it had become common practice for some airlines, especially American airlines to ignore that particular rule so I doubt we'll see any major changes for the better in the foreseeable future....... and in fact, if I were to bet on anything, I'd bet things will get harder for travelling hunters rather than easier.

As an example of this: The EUSSR introduced a total ban on the carriage of ALL sporting ammo travelling from, to or through any EU country a few years ago. After a few weeks, they temporarily suspended the ban but did not withdraw it and that suggests to me that they will reintroduce the ban at some point in the future.

Also note the original ban applied to all sporting ammo and bear in mind that all munitions either fall into the category of sporting or weapon of war........ they've always been forbidden to carry weapons of war anyway because of the original act so I have to wonder why the ban was for sporting ammunition rather than just ammunition........ I don't know the answer to that but I sure as hell don't trust them and I sure as hell reckon the phrase was carefully chosen for some reason.

All that said, I can see the (safety) logic (and agree with it) in restricting any one consignment of flammable ammo to no more than 5 kg and also not allowing consignments to be added together in one bag and also in the total ban of BP, BP substitutes and detonators.

Will be going with them in about two weeks!

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Ethiopian Airlines - WARNING!! They would not let me take any ammo home, but they allowed the ammo into Tanzania - bizarre. The ammo was intially checked on United in the USA and was transfered to Ethiopian Airlines in Washington DC (Dulles).

This cost me 80 loaded cartridges and 20 empty cases valued at ~$650.00. The ammo and/or components are worth even more in Tanzania.

My overall impression of Ethiopian Airlines is that they are borderline incompetent.

Be careful about booking Ethiopian AL.

Thanks for the info

I'll always take as much ammunition as I can within the weight limit. I have always included the ammo box, but use the lightest weight box I can (don't know if that is really necessary). Get some funny looks from our staff when I'm down the mail room adding a round at a time to the mail scale.

I've only been weighed by the airlines (to my knowledge) on the way back.

I try to live by the teaching of Rudyard Kipling.

quote:

“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
So the 5k is for the safety of all passengers - how so. One hunter = 5k, 10hunters = 50k, 50 hunters - 250k, 100 hunters = 500k assuming all are rifle hunters. It is a bureaucratic F*ck up.

Thats Hilrious so during prime hunting time you have a couple "Kamakazi" planes coming over full of hunters, lets hope they land ok

I personally reckon it's waaaaaay past time they scrapped the entire act and introduced a new one that's applies to the 21st century rather than one that applied to 1945.

AIU:
I'm sorry you've lost your high value ammo.
I also would like to know what caliber etc it was. Seems mighty expensive stuff but, there's quite afew around these days that are.

I got caught up in the weight limit in CO Spgs a couple yrs ago. I had no idea there was a wt limit as this was my first time to take guns, ammo on a plane trip. This was just to JAX, Fla.

My bag was opened across the counter but, I was watching. When the guy found the ammo boxes he started setting them aside and looking thru everything. Once he finished he came and told me "there's a wt limit on ammo of 11#, I'm going to weigh yours and lets see how much you have" "I wasn't aware of such limits, IF I'm over, can I get it and call my buddy back to come pick it up?" "Sure, no problem with that".

I don't recall how much I had but, it was quite a bit over as I'd planned on leaving much of it with the guy I was going hunting with. As Mike didn't have a cell ph, I had to wait til he got home to call. The plane left before he got back to the airport but, they treated him well and gave him the ammo without any problem. Funny thing, when I got to Steve's house and opened the bag, the guy hadn't closed the ammo box and had just tossed 'em back into my suitcase. They spilled all over the place. I'm convinced it's just one of those things to hassle people over.

I'd packed four rifles and three revolvers so had 100 rnds for each one as we'd planned on doing a bunch of shooting at the range in our spare time. Yep, I learned a bunch on that trip. but it all went well, killed a couple nice hogs, did some shooting, went fishing in the gulf and had a good time the whole ten days I was gone.
Whether this has anything to do with the OPost or not, it follows the course of the later discussion, or I think it does.
George

George, did you shoot in Jax? I live here so, let me know next time and you won't need to fly with all that ammo!
Peter.

quote:

This cost me 80 loaded cartridges and 20 empty cases valued at ~$650.00. The ammo and/or components are worth even more in Tanzania.

Ackley Improved.

What was the calibre you were using ?

I have flown them once from Cairo to CAR- went perfectly, good airline, good food, flew business class

I must say I had a very nice ride with them in business a few weeks ago. My plane was scheduled to leave 19:20 from Stockholm-Ethiopia and because of my connection flight being late 1.5 hour they held the plane 20 mintues for me to come on board!! Big seats although a bit on the old side and the tvs also are not the latest. Service and food could not have been better.

One of those Halle Berry looking things said to me when I walked off the plane 'aaw you look happy today sir' ..yup!

quote:

One of those Halle Berry looking things said to me when I walked off the plane 'aaw you look happy today sir' ..yup!

Mayby i should try this Airline now