AIR FRANCE
NEW RULES- AVOID AT ALL COSTS.

Their new rules make travel with guns a disaster in regards to and AMMO, HUNTING BAGGAGE, GUN AND BOW CASES.

Maybe this will help you understand.

This is Air France rules only and has nothing to do with RSA Law.

If you have a gun in a case, your ammo, and a pair of boots in checked baggage, you will be required to have three separate items checked.

1. Gun in case Alone
2. Ammo in case Alone
3. Other items in their own bag

A Tuffpak and the like are rendered useless as far as packing other things in it.



You are dealing with South African Folk and French rules. Not a pretty a combination?

Check your airline policies. http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/..._autre_airfrance.htm

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Surely you must have known that your ammunition must be packed separately on flights originating in South Africa? That is South African law, not Air France.

IIRC, ammo must be packed separate from the rifle but not separate from the rest of the luggage-i.e. in its own separate box.

There's a difference between law and rule.

LAW in the form on the Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act (and other later legislation) states that ammo must me stored in manufacturers packaging OR other container that keeps every round separated from every other round. (plus the 5 kg max)

RULE is laid down by separate airlines and some require ammo to be packed into other baggage, some into the rifle case and some in a separate container or locked container (often) with nothing else in that container.

Look on the individual airline's website and you'll pretty much always find the current laws AND rules detailed there.

It should be noted that since 9/11 the situation has been confused by other legislation (esp in the US) that rather confuses things but in theory at least, the air Navigation Order rules.

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Maybe this will help you understand.

This is Air France rules only and has nothing to do with RSA Law.

If you have a gun in a case, your ammo, and a pair of boots in checked baggage, you will be required to have three separate items checked.

1. Gun in case Alone
2. Ammo in case Alone
3. Other items in their own bag

A Tuffpak and the like are rendered useless as far as packing other things in it.


I do not argue or bullshit on this site.
This is merely to help other good folks who are looking to travel well and not for those who want to banter. Surely I do understand. Geez.

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Unfortunately, its really neither... depends on the muppet @ the counter in JoBurg or other locations. I do this every 2-3 months with them, and it pays to have their own regulations (from their website) printed with you at all times... to avoid such disaster. Sorry you had a poor experience!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
There's a difference between law and rule.
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Look on the individual airline's website and you'll pretty much always find the current laws AND rules detailed there....

but not always. several years ago on a flight to Michigan, my friends and I had 4 rifles in a gun case. the airline employee said it could not go that way, as only two guns were allowed per case, unless the case was designed to hold more. one of my friends had exhaustively researched their rules on the website, which stated no such thing. we told her (the agent) that, and after some discussion, she was persuaded to reveal that there are rules not available to the public, which apply to the public nonetheless. she showed us the rule on her monitor, which I later verified during a lengthy complaint call. it was delta or united, I forget which.

so there are secret rules, or at least one secret rule, which can come up to bite you.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Surely you must have known that your ammunition must be packed separately on flights originating in South Africa? That is South African law, not Air France.

That is not true. I took an SAA flight to Bulawayo from Or Tambo, and a couple of weeks later a SAA flight to Or Tambo and then a Delta flight to Atlanta.

In both trips my ammo was packed in its hard case which in turn was in my checked luggage. Ammo was declared in both cases.

I was NOT required to pull out my ammo case and check it separately (though I was prepared to do so). This was just last month.

zzz, stop sawing logs and get a travel agent who knows about traveling with firearms.

Sorry to have to say it, but ignorance (of the law or airline rules) is no excuse.

I recommend Steve Turner and Travel With Guns.

Air France is a difficult airline for sure. I avoid it whenever possible. Nevertheless it is not too much demanded to be prepared with a solid separate ammo box.

+!

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
Air France is a difficult airline for sure. I avoid it whenever possible. Nevertheless it is not too much demanded to be prepared with a solid separate ammo box.

I think this has more to do with the chimps at O.R Tambo than Air France. Having used them half a dozen times I have found them and the French to be more gun friendly than most european airlines (BA and Lufthansa in particular)

I hope you tried to speak some french. That would have gone a loooong way to making any issues easier to resolve.

after my experience with lost luggage inbound to Cameroon in April on AF, i would avoid them if at all possible. the loss was easily preventable as i pointed out the problem early on well before the flight arrived in Yaounde. they simply ignored the issue, assuring me that there was no problem, monsieur!! a bigger issue to me and others going forward is that they are damn near the only airline serving central and west Africa on a regular basis. Brussels Air( the other main alternative) is even more unreliable... and yes, i would not hesitate to go back to Cameroon, Burkina Faso or Benin.

Just heard from a friend who is hunting in the Congo, arrived last Thursday - no duffel bag containing clothes and ammo. Air France promised bag would be arriving in camp on Tuesday - no duffel bag arrived, now the latest promise is for this Friday. He is wearing one of the PH's clothes and using a borrowed shotgun. He has his .416 Rem Mag and his .22 Hornet, but no ammo for either one. He is a bit pissed at Air France right now.

Karl

Question? If your gun is inside a case, then the case is inside a Tuffpack, would that be considered acceptable?

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Just heard from a friend who is hunting in the Congo, arrived last Thursday - no duffel bag containing clothes and ammo. Air France promised bag would be arriving in camp on Tuesday - no duffel bag arrived, now the latest promise is for this Friday. He is wearing one of the PH's clothes and using a borrowed shotgun. He has his .416 Rem Mag and his .22 Hornet, but no ammo for either one. He is a bit pissed at Air France right now.

Karl

this does not surprise me in the least. i received 1 lost bag a month after i got home and i never received the other. i spent 12 days in the bush with the khaki pants i wore going over, another pair i managed to find in country, a borrowed T shirt and another shirt( 2 sizes too small) that i found in country. no freeze dried food, no hammock, no first aid kit, no electrolyte replacement, no sleeping bag- NOTHING!! Air France truly sucks.....

Yes jdollar is right, they SUCK. Unfortunately we don't have much choice. I figure it is hunting the outfitters too. Less bookings than in easier accessed places.

I personally have never had a problem with them , although I have heard the French refer to them as " Air Chance "

I traveled to Sa this May. I went by the Book no ammo in the gun Case, Ammo in proper Boxes Boxes within boxes in my Suitcase. Flying AF on the return, the ticket agent made me remove my Ammo from my luggage and check it thru seperately,I don't know if it was an AF rule or the ticket agent didn't know the law in SA