Have not heard anything in several months on this topic regarding temporary export of firearms and ammunition. Wondering if it all kind of blew over, was restricted mostly to DFW, or what....

Thanks - as a refresher, from the CBP website....
"All persons who intend to travel from the United States to a foreign country with firearms and/or ammunition are reminded that both the permanent and temporary exportation of these items are subject to federal export licensing regulations. The export regulations for handguns, rifles, associated parts and components, and related ammunition are found in the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) administered by the Department of State’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC). The export regulations for sporting shotguns (barrel length of 18 inches or more), muzzle loading firearms, associated parts and components, and related ammunition are found in the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) administered by the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS).

Export regulations require that prior to traveling outside the United States with firearms and/or ammunition all departing persons must obtain a valid and appropriate DDTC or BIS export license or qualify for a valid DDTC license exemption under 22 C.F.R. 123.17 - 123.18 or a valid BIS license exception under 15 C.F.R. 740.14(e).

Before exporting any firearms and/or ammunition with a valid DDTC or BIS export license or a qualifying license exemption, the traveler, or an agent acting on the traveler’s behalf, must file the Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES) or the Internet-based system AESDirect which is publicly available and free of charge. In addition to filing the EEI in AES or AESDirect prior to export, all firearms, ammunition and additional mandatory documentation (e.g., certifications, foreign import permits, proof of AES filing; such as the Internal Transaction Number) must be presented to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authorities for visual inspection at the port of departure from the United States.

Wondering the same myself as I would really like to take my own rifles this year.

I just came out of Mexico yesterday. Business as usual, nothing but a 4457.

I read something somewhere, and can't remember where, that Pres trump had removed some of the requirements pertaining to ITAR...no idea if this onerous requirement will be eliminated, though.

I guess in a couple of weeks or so I will go to the office on Esters and see what happens. I think I will take several rifles and list the scopes separately to avoid additional changes if I can...

The CBP website still says you need an export permit due to STATE DEPARTMENT regulations. The Trump administration is finalizing the move for control of sporting weapons to the Commerce Department. This removes the gunsmith license regs from State and I hope the export license for hunters. From what I read the move from State to Commerce is to take place at the end of January. So things are changing and I hope for the better.

The regulations moving jurisdiction for the export of sporting arms from State to Commerce were published on January 23 and should go into effect on March 9, 2020.

It’s posted on the commerce webpage.

Www.bis.doc.gov.

quote:

Originally posted by Atticus:
The regulations moving jurisdiction for the export of sporting arms from State to Commerce were published on January 23 and should go into effect on March 9, 2020.

It’s posted on the commerce webpage.

Www.bis.doc.gov.

Do we know what more importantly how to comply with that procedure is?

We hen I try to open your link it says Safari Cannot Open.

Could not make his link work either--
found this:


https://www.federalregister.go...es-no-longer-warrant

(NOT VERY CLEAR AS TO TEMPORARY SPORTING EXPORT)

BIS also notes that this final rule imposes a requirement to file Electronic Export Information (EEI) in Automated Export System (AES) for nearly all exports of firearms being moved to the CCL. The EAR includes robust recordkeeping requirements that have been enhanced further for the firearms being moved to the CCL. BIS can and does on a regular basis contact parties to a transaction to request all records related to a particular export or reexport or series of exports or reexports. These record requests may also involve in-person visits from representatives of EE.

from ICE:

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

Before exporting any firearms and/or ammunition with a valid DDTC or BIS export license or a qualifying license exemption, the traveler, or an agent acting on the traveler’s behalf, must file the Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES) or the Internet-based system AESDirect which is publicly available and free of charge. In addition to filing the EEI in AES or AESDirect prior to export, all firearms, ammunition and additional mandatory documentation (e.g., certifications, foreign import permits, proof of AES filing; such as the Internal Transaction Number) must be presented to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authorities for visual inspection at the port of departure from the United States.

Apparently -This group believes it to be mandatory.

http://www.huntingtrophy.com/w...ing-for-Firearms.pdf

FAQ's regarding AES requirements for the Export of Firearms.
What is the law: All persons who intend to travel from the United States to a foreign country with firearms
and/or ammunition for either permanent or temporary exportation are subject to federal export licensing
regulations. The export regulations for handguns, rifles, associated parts and components, and related
ammunition are found in the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). Before exporting firearms and/or
ammunition with a valid license or qualifying license exemption, the traveler or an agent acting on the traveler's
behalf, must file the Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES).
What has changed: Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is the government agency responsible for all goods
coming into and going out of the United States. Historically when personal effects traveled with a person, those
goods were not of much interest to the government. (Unless there were goods coming into the country valued
more than $2500.00) In 2012 the government became aware that firearms were exiting and entering the United
States as accompanied baggage of hunters and there was no record of what left and what returned. In order to
track firearms and to comply with the Department of State and the Department of Commerce regulations,
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is now enforcing those 2012 regulations.
Why now: The Department of Commerce has done a major overhaul of the Export Regulations and those new
regulations go into effect on May 1, 2015. CBP, the agency charged with enforcing those regulations, has begun
telling hunters that their firearms may be seized or confiscated if the rules are not followed.
What do I need to do: In order to comply with the regulations, you must file the Electronic Export
Information in AES (Automated Export System) with CBP and receive in return an ITN (Internal Transaction
Number). That ITN shows CBP that you have filed an AES and that when you return to the United States, you
can prove that you had the gun when you left.
How do I file an AES: There are two ways you can file in AES and obtain an ITN:
# 1 You can file the information yourself with AESDirect.gov. There is no charge to file and the website will
explain what you will need to do.
#2 You can have Coppersmith, a licensed Freight Forwarder, file the AES for you for a minimal fee. We will file
the information on your behalf, but you must supply a number of items including: A signed Export Power of
Attorney, an EIN number, and a completed questionnaire detailing your trip and your firearm’s serial number(s).
What is an EIN: The IRS assigns EIN (Employee Identification Numbers). Previously the exporter could use
their Social Security Number instead of the EIN but because of identity theft the EIN is now required. Per the
IRS.gov website, to get an EIN you must sign up as a Sole Proprietor and complete the registration. In the
comment box you should write "For AES purposes only". The process takes less than 15 minutes.
What is the cost: You can file your own AES for no charge at www.AESDirect.gov. Or you can have
Coppersmith, a licensed freight forwarder, or another qualified third party file the AES for you. You must
provide a signed Export Power of Attorney, your EIN, and complete a questionnaire detailing your trip and the
firearms you plan to take with you. The cost to file the AES for you is $50.00

AS of TODAY:

/www.ice.gov/cpi/quiz#tab2

ICE shows exemption for:

The items you are bringing fulfill ALL of the following criteria:

Are for your exclusive use.
Will remain under your exclusive ownership and will NOT be resold or transferred to another person.
Will be in your possession upon return to the U.S.

Three or fewer firearms?
Will you be transporing a rifle, pistol, or ammuntion?

Three or fewer firearms?

AND
Fewer than 1,000 rounds of ammunition, or no ammunition?

A license exemption likely applies therefore: An Export License is not required.

With less than three firearms or 1,000 rounds of ammunition there is a license exemption available.

Anyone who falls into this category MUST file the electronic export information in AESDirect.

Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect.


EXEMPTION :
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...3.60.0.32.17&idno=22

(c) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) shall permit U.S. persons to export temporarily from the United States without a license not more than three nonautomatic firearms in Category I(a) of §121.1 of this subchapter and not more than 1,000 cartridges therefor, provided that:

(1) The person declares the articles to a CBP officer upon each departure from the United States, presents the Internal Transaction Number from submission of the export information through CBP's electronic system(s) per §123.22 (unless electronic reporting of such information is unavailable, in which case U.S. Customs and Border Protection will issue instructions), and the articles are presented to the CBP officer for inspection;

(2) The firearms and accompanying ammunition to be exported is with the individual's baggage or effects, whether accompanied or unaccompanied (but not mailed); and

(3) The firearms and accompanying ammunition must be for that person's exclusive use and not for reexport or other transfer of ownership. The person must declare that it is his intention to return the article(s) on each return to the United States. The foregoing exemption is not applicable to the personnel referred to in §123.18 of this subchapter.

Duggaboya p: c1 of that exemption appears to require some kind of registration, “Internal Transaction Number” that we did not have to do previously.

Can anyone enlighten us on the Internal Transaction Number?

Since I started the thread, I figured I should have a conversation with CBP when able. Today I was in San Antonio and went to their office at the airport. Bottom line - was assured that the properly filled out 4457 form was all that CBP was expecting to see, so long as we brought the firearms back with us. At this airport, at least, they are not expecting to have an EEI, ITN or other documents presented.

I mentioned that there seems to have been more issues with DFW -including my own experience with the "passport into the plastic box" fun - and the officer just said "well, yeah, we know about that, and believe me we get a lot of hunters out of here. Just have the 4457 done right and we won't have any problem with your temporary export".

I leave late February, returning mid-March, and am not going to do anything further to obtain the ITN or EEI.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Duggaboya p: c1 of that exemption appears to require some kind of registration, “Internal Transaction Number” that we did not have to do previously.

Can anyone enlighten us on the Internal Transaction Number?

That is the crux of the whole AES/EIN issue. As of today, as posted earlier in this thread, the ICE website shows you are exempt from a license, but you still have to file an ITN (internal transaction number) under the AES (automated export system)which requires an EIN (IRS employer ID). Apparently this has only been enforced at DFW. With the move from State to Commerce, I am hopeful this will be cleared up, but who knows. I am leaving at the end of May, so very interested in where this goes.

By the way, that info from Coppersmith dates back to 2015 when this first came up and was suspended shortly thereafter. Not sure if they are still doing this and I have not contacted them. I might, though, if there is no relief.

quote:

Originally posted by Custom:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Duggaboya p: c1 of that exemption appears to require some kind of registration, “Internal Transaction Number” that we did not have to do previously.

Can anyone enlighten us on the Internal Transaction Number?

That is the crux of the whole AES/EIN issue. As of today, as posted earlier in this thread, the ICE website shows you are exempt from a license, but you still have to file an ITN (internal transaction number) under the AES (automated export system)which requires an EIN (IRS employer ID). Apparently this has only been enforced at DFW. With the move from State to Commerce, I am hopeful this will be cleared up, but who knows. I am leaving at the end of May, so very interested in where this goes.

I do not believe it is possible for you and I, as individuals traveling with firearms, or for the purpose therefore, to comply with AES and EIN. That system is simply not designed to allow us to comply. At least, it was not when I looked into this last year.

Your information mirrors my own. This is not going to go away.

https://www.nraila.org/article...65pgjZ07UFC_IUBCIieQ

Trump Administration Publishes Historic Rulemaking to Modernize America’s Firearm Export Regime

On Jan. 23, the Trump administration published rules that will be a boon to the United States firearms industry and all who utilize its products. The new regulations will become effective March 9, 2020.

The rules update America’s regulatory regime for the export of firearms, as well as related parts, components, and accessories. They are the result of an intensive, years-long interagency review process, as well as consideration of thousands of public comments.

The changes move firearm-related commerce from an antiquated Cold War paradigm into the modern era of broader international trade and access to information.

No more will small, non-exporting businesses – including gunsmiths – be caught up in an expansive regulatory scheme for manufacturers of “munitions” and their parts that requires a $2,250 annual registration fee with U.S. State Department.

Americans will again be free to publish most technical information about firearms and ammunition – including on the publicly-accessible Internet – without fear of accidentally running afoul of State Department restrictions that could land them in federal prison.

And Americans temporarily traveling overseas with their own guns and ammunition won’t have to register them in a government database or deal with the complexities of completing lengthy forms in commercial exporting software.

Meanwhile, commercial exporters of non-military grade firearms and ammunition will have fewer fees to pay and will benefit from a more flexible, business-oriented regulatory environment. This will enhance their competitiveness in global markets and bring business and jobs that might have gone to unscrupulous foreign companies back to America, which will continue to have unrivaled oversight of its domestic and international arms trade.

To be clear, actual exports of firearms and ammunition will still require authorization by the federal government, including through licenses issued after interagency review to ensure the materiel will not fall into the wrong hands when it leaves the country. End users of the guns in the countries of destination will also remain subject to U.S. monitoring.

But guns and ammunition that can be readily obtained at big box retailers in the U.S. will no longer be treated for export purposes as if they were in the same “inherently military” category as missiles, warheads, howitzers, or other true weapons of war.

This change will additionally ensure that more resources are available to monitor transfers and movement of truly sensitive and consequential military equipment and technology.

The result is an overall win for American business, freedom, and the security of the Free World.

Needless to say, however, those who would ban firearms completely are already seeking to undermine the changes. Attorneys general from a number of anti-gun states have filed suit in a federal district court in Seattle, Wash., falsely alleging the rule changes would allow for the unregulated proliferation of so-called “3D-printed weapons.” Numerous media outlets have uncritically parroted these baseless claims.

In truth, the final versions of the rules specifically address this concern and will treat any computer code allowing for the automatic printing or milling of a firearm as a regulated item requiring prior authorization before being published on the Internet or released to any foreign national.

This latest action is just one more example of how President Trump continues to move forward with his positive agenda to protect the right to keep and bear arms and the businesses that comprise America’s firearms industry. American manufacturing, as well as lawful firearm ownership at home and abroad stand to make big gains under the president’s export reform initiative.

Wow! . This is excellent news. Thanks for sharing. Common sense prevails.

And thank you, President Trump!!

quote:

And Americans temporarily traveling overseas with their own guns and ammunition won’t have to register them in a government database or deal with the complexities of completing lengthy forms in commercial exporting software.

This looks promising. Has anyone actually seen the new rule?

Guess I will wait until March to try to get my new paperwork done. Many thanks.

See Comment 69.

https://www.federalregister.go...es-no-longer-warrant

Thanks, Wesheltonj. That certainly answers the question. Reading that comment, it indicates that you "file" a form 4457 with CBP. Further down, it indicates that you must present the firearms to a CBP officer, I suppose similar to what we have done in the past. I wasn't aware that the 4457 was "filed" at that point, but maybe I was naïve.

I did 4457’s today at Meacham Airport in Fort Worth(It is about 15 minutes from our house). Very pleasant experience. About 5 minutes to get 7 forms signed and stamped and 30 minutes talking guns, hunting and old “snow cap ops”.

I asked the officer about the export permits, etc. and he said that was a bad idea that went nowhere. However, he did give me an email for DFW CBP to send copies of the 4457’s, passport and flight info a few weeks prior to departure so the office there would know in advance.

Thanks, Gents !

Leaving Friday for Jo'Burg, returning March 10th. Have only 4457 form (new this year) and expect it will all be a non-event.

I sent in the requested information to DFW CBP. The "DFW CBP exodus team" says I need an export permit and need to contact my broker. We are "hoping" to depart for Africa at the end of April.

WTH??

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
I sent in the requested information to DFW CBP. The "DFW CBP exodus team" says I need an export permit and need to contact my broker. We are "hoping" to depart for Africa at the end of April.

WTH??

Larry

Sounds like the bullshit I got last year.

Departed SAT February 29th, returned March 9th. Atlanta and Jo’Burg. Only had 4457. Had no issues at all, going or coming. DFW seems to be mired in a permit problem. San Antonio and Atlanta definitely we’re not.

Left Houston for South Africa 2/16 returned and cleared in Atlanta last sunday, no issues just 4457.

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
I sent in the requested information to DFW CBP. The "DFW CBP exodus team" says I need an export permit and need to contact my broker. We are "hoping" to depart for Africa at the end of April.

WTH??

Larry

They are incorrect. The new rules moving licensing jurisdiction to Commerce went into effect March 9. Only a 4457 is required (no aes) to take sporting arms out of the US on a hunting trip. I believe the number of firearms allowed is 3—Just make sure they come back with you. It’s a temporary export exception, a permanent export requires a license from the Commerce department and AES filing.

I called 6 different CBP offices (MIA, FLL, IAH, SAT, CLT, ATL) this past week. All told me that only 4457 is needed and DFW is wrong. The DFW CBP Exodus office sent me all the old EEI/AES/ITN information. I asked why is DFW the only one requiring this? Is everyone else wrong and only DFW is right?? The response was “you have been provided the laws/requirements for exporting a firearm from the US”

WTF??? I thought this new ruling effective 09 March ended this nonsense.

I have searched the “new ruling” on exportation of firearms and do not find anything specifying all that is required is a 4457. NRA website only talks about lifting small business requirements and making more items exportable.

Atticus: Do you have a link for that change or a file you can send me? I understand that is the new ruling but I cannot find it in writing. The one posted in this thread does not state this. It leaves a lot of room for (mis)interpretation

Just returned from Uganda . 2 of us through ATL and on through Houston. No problems leaving or coming home with just a 4457.

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
Atticus: Do you have a link for that change or a file you can send me? I understand that is the new ruling but I cannot find it in writing. The one posted in this thread does not state this. It leaves a lot of room for (mis)interpretation

Here is a link to the regulations

https://www.bis.doc.gov/index....tion-regulations-ear



Text of the specific requirement:

15 CFR § 758.11 EXPORT CLEARANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR FIREARMS AND RELATED ITEMS

(a) Scope. The export clearance requirements of this section apply to all exports of commodities controlled under ECCNs 0A501.a or .b, shotguns with a barrel length less than 18 inches controlled under ECCN 0A502, or ammunition controlled under ECCN 0A505 except for .c, regardless of value or destination, including exports to Canada, that are authorized under License Exception BAG, as set forth in §740.14 of the EAR.
(b) Required form. Prior to making any export described in paragraph (a) of this section, the exporter is required to submit a properly completed Department of Homeland Security, CBP Form 4457, (Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad) (OMB Control Number 1651-0010), to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), pursuant to 19 CFR 148.1, and as required by this section.
(1) Where to obtain the form? The CBP Certification of Registration Form 4457 can be found on the following CBP website: https://www.cbp.gov/document/f...effects-taken-abroad.
(2) Required “description of articles” for firearms to be included on the CBP Form 4457. For all exports of firearms controlled under ECCNs 0A501.a or .b, or shotguns with a barrel length less than 18 inches controlled under ECCN 0A502, the exporter must provide to CBP the serial number, make, model, and caliber for each firearm being exported by entering this information under the “Description of Articles” field of the CBP Form 4457, Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad.
(c) Where to find additional information on the CBP Form 4457? See the following CBP website page for additional information: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answe...m%2C-rifle%2C-gun%2C.
(d) Return of items exported pursuant to this section. The exporter when returning with a commodity authorized under License Exception BAG and exported pursuant this section, is required to present a copy of the CBP Form 4457, Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad) (OMB Control Number 1651-
Export Clearance Requirements Part 758-page 16
Export Administration Regulations Bureau of Industry and Security March 9, 2020
0010), to CBP, pursuant to 19 CFR 148.1, and as required by this section.

Thank you but unfortunately they are hanging their hats on the ICE/DoS requirements that specifically lists EEI, etc.

Has DSC/SCI/NRA done anything on this? I sent an email to the NRA-ILA and the CBP office. My next step is to contact my Congressional Rep. DFW is the only ones complying with the law of they have a personal agenda against hunters and firearms. These types of inconsistencies cannot be tolerated.

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
Thank you but unfortunately they are hanging their hats on the ICE/DoS requirements that specifically lists EEI, etc.

Has DSC/SCI/NRA done anything on this? I sent an email to the NRA-ILA and the CBP office. My next step is to contact my Congressional Rep. DFW is the only ones complying with the law of they have a personal agenda against hunters and firearms. These types of inconsistencies cannot be tolerated.

To answer your question about hunting organizations working on this, the answer is "yes" as far as DSC is concerned. Our Executive Director has spoken to several different CBP offices (7, I think) and the only one requiring this form is DFW. The supervisor at DFW has been less than helpful and calls have been made to those in Washington DC. I suspect everyone in DC currently has bigger things on their mind. I am planning on going to DFW on Friday to get two 4457's and will see what I can find out from CBP staff (if their office is open). Early on in this situation I contacted the congressman whose district includes DFW, did absolutely no good.

Karl Evans:

Thank you for your efforts both on a personal level and organizational level for us.

Thank you Karl and everyone else that has worked this. We need to have that cup of coffee we discussed last year now that I live in the area.

Looks like I have three options.
1. Launch a Congressional Investigation (will do that today)
2. Fly out of another airport
3. Open "Larry's Safari's" and license myself as an exporter to comply with their excessive and abusive requirements. Will look into that further. May be a simple answer and maybe I will be able to help others as well. I can normally win most games once I know the rules.

As Karl stated, we may not get much attention with everything going on in the world.

Be safe everyone!

Larry

Just launched Congressional Inquiry.