I was told today that an American can leave his rifle out of the country for 5 years.

During this time he can get an export license??

Can anyone confirm this??

While I don't claim to know all of the legalities involved, I did take a shotgun to Africa and left it with Mike Payne. Had to have an approval letter from the US Secretary of State in hand before leaving the States and Mike had already gotten his approval paperwork from SA. That's my only experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Hogbreath:
While I don't claim to know all of the legalities involved, I did take a shotgun to Africa and left it with Mike Payne. Had to have an approval letter from the US Secretary of State in hand before leaving the States and Mike had already gotten his approval paperwork from SA. That's my only experience.

I believe in order to “permanently” export a firearm one must submit an ATF “Form 9” and receive ATF approval, not sure if 5 years would be considered permanent. I tried to legally take a rifle to SA years ago and gave up, too much BS.

Now in the rush to leave a rifle was forgotten what country would prosecute.

Or how long would it take them ton find out about it.

Please translate.

Saeed, it has been several years since I did this, but I am unaware of any change in the law.

If one intends to export a firearm from the USA permanently to a third party foreign national, then one must obtain a permanent export permit beforehand.

I would ask whoever told you about this 5 year rule where it exists in the applicable law or regulations.

I have never heard of it.

I'm not sure anyone keeps track of when you leave with a rifle from the USA. If airlines were reporting that to someone I would think there would be some paper work. Where it may become an issue is when you go to leave the country you entered with rifle and dont have it with you on departure, But I'm not sure of that either.
It would be a liability for whoever was holding it though without proper paperwork I'm sure.

The question has been brought up how “they” would know if you left with a rifle, the answer is that the airlines notify CBP of passengers checking firearms, I know Qatar, Emirates and American do this, including a photo taken at check in. Same airlines do the same on your return, I suspect CBP would catch a checked firearm on departure but not return. I was told a couple of years ago by a CBP officer, who recently retired, that DFW was the number one airport for firearms leaving and not returning.
But, after all of this…the rifle I was asked to bring was taken thru Atlanta on Delta by another guy with no problems.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Please translate.

If one needs translation then one should not consider the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Please translate.

English may not be his primary language.

So far as I am aware, the U.S. does not keep track of sporting arms taken abroad; hence it does not know whether such arm(s) were repatriated or not.

On the other hand, countries into which you may bring a firearm typically have a record of it coming in and want to see it go with you when you depart the visited country.

Thus the extra-legal export from the U.S. is not the main issue, but rather whether foreign customs authorities will allow you to leave without the same arms you came in with.

The "boat turned over and it was lost" excuse may or may not get you on the plane.

It always makes me smile ruefully when the question changes from “Is it a crime?” to “Can I get away with it?”

I would hate to be the PH recipient of a “lost” rifle in Africa. I have heard the jails aren’t that friendly in Africa.

Argentina, for example, will sometimes audit outfitters. Yes, that’s also known as gun registration. Let’s pray we never reach that point.

Zimbabwe will allow a citizens to legally obtain a rifle from a foreign visitor if the proper paperwork is submitted and the firearm is legal to own in Zim.

Gentlemen, the question only applies to US citizens.

I do know other nationalities do leave firearms in Africa and the recipients do get them legalized.

I have known American diplomats that had left rifles in Africa and New Zealand, this was all in the mid-2000's.

I don't know if you could legally do it today.

Would you get caught? I don't think so.

Gundog 64 is correct about Zimbabwe. You will not be allowed to leave Zim without the proper gift paperwork. To avoid suspicion upon returning to the US, my advice would be to travel with 2 firearms and only return with one. They follow the case not the individual firearm.
That is what I have been told by someone who has gifted several firearms as tips to their PHs on several safaris over the years.


Legal disclaimer:Your results may vary, lol

Why even take the risk? Why leave a firearm behind for any reason? If someone wants a rifle or shotgun that bad then let them go through the legal channels to legally own or possess the firearm without putting another at risk regarding an iffy issue that might or could potentially prevent you from owning firearms in the future for leaving a firearm behind or illegally transferring a firearm to another. Anyone who asks whether it is a crime or could I get away with it speaks volumes about the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
So far as I am aware, the U.S. does not keep track of sporting arms taken abroad; hence it does not know whether such arm(s) were repatriated or not.

I’m pretty sure CBP will be aware if you left with a firearm and did not return with the same firearm. I’m more than pretty sure of that at DFW, last 3 times we have returned from hunting they have had my photo and 4457 on their computer screen. Can’t say about other airports, though.
We’ll see if it works that way again tomorrow.

I asked a CBP officer this question yesterday at DFW because I was concerned my rifle case wasn’t on our flight from Doha. He told me that it’s possible after receiving approval from govt (he said CBP one time and state dept another). I asked what happened if my rifle case didn’t arrive and he told me nothing much would happen for a few days if the case had been checked as baggage on an airline. If not checked, he said a really good reason for not returning would be needed.
I surely wouldn’t chance it.