I am curious what everyone is doing this year if they were to travel or are travelling to Africa. I plan on taking mine on every trip and jumping through the necessary hoops to make it happen. I just feel more comfortable with my own.

Question:
If you were/are going to Africa in 2017 based on gun permits, new Form 4457 regulations, etc., would you still take your own rifle(s)?

Choices:
Yes
No
I don't know
It depends on other factors

 

So far, I have always brought my own. That said, I'm not opposed to using a loner. I have been in a few camps in Africa where the loaners have been decent and would not have minded using them. I have used a loaner in Hawaii, New Zealand, and Russia and they all worked out fine.

There's a few countries we likely wouldn't take our own to but for the bulk of them you bet.....the permitting really isn't that onerous in most. I much prefer to have my own. That said we did borrow when we went to OZ just because of all the permits required and the crazy extra baggage charges.

If I'm paying for hunting, I'm bringing my own guns.

The only times that I don't bring my own guns is when I hunt feral animals in New Zealand and those hunts are really just getting together with good friends for fun.

I'd much rather hunt with firearms that I am familiar with, Mine! I've spent time with them, worked up the loads for them and trust them.

I don't like surprises. I handload and will always take my own rifles. I just got back from Africa and took two rifles. Yes I drove 5 1/2hrs roundtrip to get the forms signed but oh well.

I'm going back in Sept and will be taking my own again. I am left-handed

I am also avoiding JNB this trip. 8 hour drive one way to get new 4457s for me.

LOP is too short on "standard" loaner rifles.

Also, I like my guns. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to use something I have tweaked, customized, and practiced with. The scratches and dings tell a story.

When I cant take,my own, I will stop going.

.

I think generally bringing your own guns is the best way to go. Loaners that I'm personally aware of range from Blasers with Swaro scopes to beat up Mod 70s with dim Tasco scopes stuck on one power setting. Maintenance is often very much lacking and trigger pulls abysmal on loaners. I've rented guns once not knowing exactly what I was getting. The 300 was basically useless because of the trigger pull but the 375 was not bad and I shot everything with it. Next year I'm tentatively scheduled to hunt and tour two European countries. Dragging my guns around would be a huge hassle so I'm using the outfitter's guns but I know the outfitter and also know he has top notch equipment. So I guess the answer to the question for me is "It depends".

Mark

Depends on the country in large part in my mind. For most countries taking your own rifle adds little to trip planning and actual trip burden. On the other hand, I can tell you that if I ever went back to Cameroon I would not even vaguely consider taking my own rifle again. One, it is expensive to do so. The rifle permit will cost around $1000, your passport has to be sent to Brussels, etc. Two, clearing the rifles in country both going in and coming out is a painful and nerve wrecking process.

Mike,

Sorry to hear that guns are a hassle now in Cameroon. Of course it was ten years ago but I don't remember it being a problem at all. Particularly in country our meet/greet person handled everything. Heck! We checked our luggage and guns on the flight home, went through security, left security and went to dinner. pretty loosie goosie in those days.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
If I'm paying for hunting, I'm bringing my own guns.

Me, too. A large part of the hunting experience, for me anyway, is loading my own ammo, testing over and over (even though the rifle still shoots like it did the last trip)and shooting a rifle I'm familiar with and am confident with.
I did a hunt in Namibia while in Africa on business, spur of the moment deal, and used two rifles belonging to the outfitter. One was a 9.2x63 that wouldn't keep 3 shots on a paper plate at 100 yards, the other, a really pretty 7x57 Mauser shot extremely well but the rifle could not be placed on "safe" due to the safety hitting the scope. Didn't care for that one either.

I do not take them much anymore. I use PH rifles if they are decent. I am not attached to my rifles or bullets anymore than a carpenter to his hammer. They are tools, no more no less.

I just got back. Avoided South Africa due to the new 4457 requirement. I will not go there. It is too much trouble for me to get new forms.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I do not take them much anymore. I use PH rifles if they are decent. I am not attached to my rifles or bullets anymore than a carpenter to his hammer. They are tools, no more no less.

+1. Haven't fooled with it for last 7 DG safaris. It's amazing what a well placed bullet from any rifle will do to an animal. If your PH/outfitter has poor quality rifles, you are hunting with the wrong guy....

I am with Mike Jines on this one. I prefer to take my own rifles but it depends on the country I am traveling to.

Cameroon and the Congo are terrible hassles and not worth the time or aggravation. Especially hunting the forest... I shot twice in Cameroon last month, once to make sure my rifle was on, once to kill my bongo. Costs... all total over $1000.

BTW, I killed my bongo with the company rifle because Air France screwed up our luggage and it arrived a day late but took four days to get to us!

Like I said, I prefer my own, but traveling sans guns is so much simpler...

I live within 5 hours drive from 5 or 6 other countries, and can be hunting in Namibia in 14 hours.

If you don't take them you don't have to deal with the BS.

If you don't take them you get what you get, last time it was a complete shit 308 Musgrave mauser that had probably shot 6000 rounds through it.

Depends on where I am going.

I am going to the RSA in 2 months. This will be my third trip. First 2 trips, I took my own guns.

This trip I am using the Outfitters. He has good rifles and I trust him. I do not want to deal with hassle. I have not regretted the decision- so far.

Time will tell, how it turns out. I am expecting that I will go this route in the future!

My first two hunts in Namibia in 2012 and 2013, I flew from ORD to Frankfort to Windhoek, and brought my own Winchester Model 70 in .300 WSM. Then Air Namibia decided to charge $100 each way for a gun box, and Frankfort decided you needed a special permit when passing through their city, even when you didn't actually take possession of the firearm. So on my third trip to Namibia in 2015, I decided to take British Airways from ORD to LHR to JoBerg to Windhoek, and used the camp rifles supplied by my PH, Jan du Plessis of Sebra Hunting Safaris. I used a Mauser in 8 X 68 mm and a suppressed Ruger 77 in .308. I carried on my optics and clothing in my Redoxx bag, and avoided the JoBerg baggage pilferers and long baggage claim lines. I did the same thing this year (2017) with great results. Because I've had great success with the Mauser, Jan now calls it "the Hammer of Thor". I call his Ruger 77 Tactical "the Anvil of Thor" because it weighs a ton with its heavy tactical barrel.

It could be a pain in the ass at times, but I enjoy using my rifles and reloads.

Like someone else posted, a big part of my hunting experience is working up loads and practicing with my rifles. So far I have taken and hunted with my rifles.

On one of my previous African hunts, another hunter came into camp on a $20K Leopard hunt. The whole time he was in camp he boasted about his 300 yard Muzzle loader and his 600 yard shots on elk "out west," but he left his rifles at home and chose to use the Outfitter's rifles.

A couple of days into his hunt it was discovered that the scope on the Outfitter's .375 was loose, and no one in camp had a correct Allen wrench to tighten it. The outfitter also had a .30-06, but this hunter wanted "more gun" so he whined and practically begged me to use my custom .300 Weatherby.

I gave in to him and told him he could use my rifle if he needed to take a long shot. The next day we spotted a herd of Sable on the far side of a field so I gave him my rifle. Before he could take a shot, the herd disappeared into the brush. We followed them for close to a mile, and I cringed the whole way seeing the African brush scrape off the stock of my rifle. I had put over 100 hours finishing and hand checkering the AA Fancy walnut stock. Then when we got back to the truck he handed the rifle back to me with a shell in the chamber and the safety OFF.

The next morning as we were loading the truck, one of the trackers asked if we wanted to take the .30-06. I was already in the back of the truck, and I said "yes." This other hunter looked at me and asked why, and I said so he would have a rifle to hunt with. We were not the best of friends for the remainder of the hunt. Oh well...

PHASA really needs to get involved and set some standards with people in the gun permit business.

How many of you have to mail a copy of all of your permits to Africa 25 days prior to arrival? I know that in the past before the 4457 requirement I would scan and email. To mail the permits to Africa can cost $65.00. For me to drive to the Customs office and let them see my guns and sign my 4457 cost $30.00 in fuel and almost a day that I am not working. That puts a total of almost $200 just for gun permits. Not to mention my time. PHASA needs to get involved in RSA and we need to get the NRA involved.

What Capt. Purvis said.

If you are not overnighting in RSA or hunting there...your old 4457's should be fine for the USA...correct?

I just got done at the Customs office and had a long talk with the officer on duty...he is well aware of the South African issue and I remember him saying he hasn't heard of any issues coming back in or in other countries. He said there was a definite increase in guys wanting new 4457 forms because of SA.

Lane,

You are correct but I'm just recommending my guys just get a new one with expiry date in the future. I'm afraid some folks are getting a new 4457 but the office they are getting it from still has a stack of old 4457 forms with the expired date.

Mark

Too much hassle with the SAPS, First trip I took my own but never again. My outfitter has good equipment (including rifles) so why go through the hassle. Either his rifles are "on the money" or compensate for my bad shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
When I cant take,my own, I will stop going.

.

Exactly how I feel. Or, if they make it too much of a hassle, that's going to be the end for me.

On my first and only two African safaris, I took mine. In countless trips to Argentina, I've never taken a shotgun and in my last two big game hunts, I've hunted with camp guns. Although I wished I could have stalked closer to my last red stag, it dropped at 450 in the second shot without knowing the gun, but I had twisted my knee early in the morning.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I do not take them much anymore. I use PH rifles if they are decent. I am not attached to my rifles or bullets anymore than a carpenter to his hammer. They are tools, no more no less.

I am with Ross on this, but for 2018 I don't know. Most of my 2018 hunts will be with borred rifle. Maybe chamois Slovenia and Austria will be different.

To me, borrowing someone else's rifle would be like borrowing their toothbrush. While it is theoretically possible, it is not something I would look forward to doing.

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
It could be a pain in the ass at times, but I enjoy using my rifles and reloads.

Me too......... If I couldn't take my own guns, might as well sell 'em.

You guys have it very easy!

Taking your own guns on safari?

Nothing wrong with that.

The problem gets a bit harder when one is obsessed with hunting that he designs and builds his own rifle.

He designs and makes his own bullets.

The rifle becomes part of the family.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
To me, borrowing someone else's rifle would be like borrowing their toothbrush. While it is theoretically possible, it is not something I would look forward to doing.

Would you rather not go, or go with someone else rifle.

If you got to camp and your guns didn't, are you going to not hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
To me, borrowing someone else's rifle would be like borrowing their toothbrush. While it is theoretically possible, it is not something I would look forward to doing.

Would you rather not go, or go with someone else rifle.

If you got to camp and your guns didn't, are you going to not hunt?

Would you rather not brush your teeth, or use somebody elses toothbrush?

I guess I don't feel that strongly about the rifles. I'd rather hunt.

But I'll keep my own toothbrush.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I guess I don't feel that strongly about the rifles. I'd rather hunt.

But I'll keep my own toothbrush.

Me too!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
To me, borrowing someone else's rifle would be like borrowing their toothbrush. While it is theoretically possible, it is not something I would look forward to doing.

Would you rather not go, or go with someone else rifle.

If you got to camp and your guns didn't, are you going to not hunt?

Good question. I often wonder if people who are married to their rifles just stay in camp and not hunt if their gear gets lost....Hard to lose a tooth brush- it fits in a pocket.Twenty years ago both my buddy's and my rifles didn't arrive in Newfoundland for a moose hunt. We used the guides' rifles and carried on. Rifles arrived the day before we left but we had already finished the hunt. I suppose we could have sat in camp and prayed but it didn't seem like a good alternative.