www.huntingreport.com



Frankfurt Requires Firearm Permits for All Transiting Hunters

(posted July 11, 2013)

Effective immediately, authorities in Frankfurt, Germany, are requiring all hunters transiting through the Frankfurt airport with firearms to acquire a transport/transit permit ahead of travel. That's according to Sabrina Stock with the Office of the Mayor of Frankfurt. Furthermore, the processing period requires four weeks and an upfront payment of 20 € for every transport/transit license.

For some time now, hunters have had to get a transit permit when they flew into Frankfurt on an airline that cannot transfer baggage to a connecting airline due to a lack of what's called an interline baggage agreement. United, for example, does not have such an agreement with Air Namibia, forcing passengers to leave the transit area to claim their baggage in Frankfurt and re-check them with Air Namibia. That required hunters with firearms to acquire a transit permit in Frankfurt. Now Stock has informed travel agent Steve Turner of Travel with Guns that even "passengers not leaving the transit area also need a permit…."

If you are booked on a flight through Frankfurt and you are traveling with a sporting firearm, you will need this permit even if your bags are checked through to your final destination, according to Stock. Your travel agent should be able to get the permit application, fill it out and submit it for you. The City of Frankfurt will email the permit to your agent, who can then forward the document to you. Expect to pay about $50 between exchange rates and bank transfer fees.

Although we have not yet received any complaints from hunters caught without a transit permit, the policy is in place and anyone found without the proper paperwork may be delayed, have firearms confiscated and/or be fined. Check the upcoming August issue of The Hunting Report for more details. - Barbara Crown, Editor

Get important news bulletins like this sent directly to your email 24 hours before anyone else sees them, plus unlimited access to our database of hunt reports and past articles, a special expanded electronic version of our newsletter and more! Upgrade your Hunting Report subscription to Email Extra today. Click here for more information.

This is correct..we came to Frankfurt with Lufthansa from Norway in late june, collected the rifles and had to wait for the german police to chech weapon nmbr. against our european weapons pass..

We did not pay any fee though..

I landed there in 2007 on a returning flight with Air Namibia while flying back to the States. Air Namibia had erroneously ticketed our bags, including my firearms, to be off-loaded in Frankfurt and not transferred directly to the connecting flight. I spent over two hours with the Frankfurt Airport police trying to figure out what to do. They reviewed every manual known to mankind, and still did not know what to do with me and my firearms. My wife was frantic and was already on the other side of the closed customs doorways and didn't know what had happened to me. Finally, I asked them to contact Delta and a Delta representative finally came over and spoke to them and they released me and the firearms. He then personally checked us in for the Delta flight home-but just in the nick of time. Interesting development. Just another in the list numerous firearms permits and checks now being required to hunt overseas with your own guns.

If it's the mayor of Frankfurt seems like a money thing.

Not to make light of the plight of those who have baggage erroneously tagged.

I wasn't able to get a straight answer about the need for a permit, either. All they did was send me the application form (in German - nice).

Lori Ginn at Travel Express http://www.travelexpressagency.com/ kindly provided me with a copy she'd translated into English.

I sent the form in and got my permit back 2 weeks before I left, with a request I submit 23 Euro within 30 days. I see they've changed their process now and are asking for the money up front.

When I left home, I had my bags checked straight through to Joberg.

My travel through Frankfurt was uneventful. There was no indication I was in any way travelling with firearms (and I went through Customs several times during my layover).

Just seems like another unfortunate money grab.

Coming back the SAA check-in only checked my bags to Heathrow. Luckily, I caught it and asked her to check them straight through to Toronto. Would not have wanted to deal with issues in London.

I just called Lufthansa and they stated no such thing. All they need is advance notification that you will be bringing a firearm, they want the make/model/sn, and apparently somewhere along the way they collect 50 Euro if you are connecting SAA to JNB (I suspect this is the ubiquitous "security fee" that saa charges for "special handling" of firearms ... what a racket)

This is of course for a straight connection with baggage checked thru to final destination (JNB). If you plan to break your travel at FFT and/or if your airline has no baggage agreement allowing the firearms to be checked thru to final, then I can understand that a different procedure may apply.

My travel agent checked into this as well with Air Canada, Lufthansa and the German Embassy and no one had heard of it.

Rent your guns!
I have done that on my last 4 hunts and it has been perfect and less hassle.

Renting guns is not always an option on overseas hunts.

I rented them in Namibia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Zambia and Zimbabwe without a problem.

Some places you cannot - Turkey is one, but I am unaware of others.

http://www.nordisksafariklub.com/node/104109


See attached for more information & application.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I rented them in Namibia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Zambia and Zimbabwe without a problem.

Some places you cannot - Turkey is one, but I am unaware of others.

It's a big world out there.

True.

Got this from an European hunting page on FB:

The rule which has existed for a longer period applies primarily to U.S. customers who come in with an airline from the United States, who do not interact with the airline, the customer should continue with why the hunter's weapons are no longer in transit but imported.

As our clients generally always have what we call a coherent ticket and therefore can check their baggage all the way to the final destination (without having to have it out of Frankfurt), there is no problem.


So this is NOT a general rule,check with your airline if if you need an permit or not.

http://www.huntingreport.com/F...German_July_2013.cfm



Firearm Transfer Permit Requirement for Hunters Transiting Frankfurt, Germany

By Barbara Crown, Editor

Authorities in Frankfurt, Germany, have implemented a requirement for a firearms "travel license" when transiting the Frankfurt airport. We distributed an Email Extra Bulletin regarding the requirement on July 11, 2013. Travelers, we were told, must acquire the transit permit ahead of travel and pay a processing fee before application for the permit. The information came from Sabrina Stock with the Public Affairs Office of the City of Frankfurt. The requirement had supposedly been in place for some time, but the pre-processing fee of €20 was new.

Despite Ms. Stock's assurances that the requirement is German law, the situation is not so clear, as we reported in the August 2013 issue of The Hunting Report. The requirement may be a misinterpretation of the law, which apparently provides an exception for at least hunters from the European Union with a firearms pass. We acquired an English translation of the Weapons Law in the Federal Republic of Germany that was posted to the German Embassy's website in Oslo. You can read the law for yourself (see Article 6.1 and .2, as well as 6.4.1).

We are continuing to look into this situation with the assistance of John J. Jackson, III, of Conservation Force and the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities. Until we have a clear understanding of what is actually required by the law, our advice to non-EU hunters is either to get the permit or avoid flying through Frankfurt.

Below is a copy of the application for the permit with an English translation (submit only the German version), information from Ms. Stock on who must have the permit and where to submit it, and instructions on how to pay the fee. Be aware that it takes four weeks to process the application.


Who Needs a Permit for Frankfurt and Where to Apply

Firearms Travel License Application Form: English | German

How to Pay the Fee Ahead of Time

Weapons Law in the Federal Republic of Germany

Just got back from a business trip to Frankfurt. A German colleague of mine that lives in Frankfurt relayed that he was not surprised as the Mayor of Frankfurt is a mega left-wing liberal nut job..

Now why does this sudden change not surprise me.....

Too bad. That makes the Frankfort-Namibia route much more problematic.

I have an email from the German Embassy saying that no such permit is required if rifles are "in transit". Lufthansa agrees. I'm going in September to Baku through Frankfurt....I'm not going to worry about it.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Rent your guns!
I have done that on my last 4 hunts and it has been perfect and less hassle.

NEVER!

I'll stay home if I can't take my guns along. Using my guns, and my own handloaded ammo, is as much a part of the experience as anything. I realize others have a different opinion, and of course, I'm willing to make a plan when things go awry such as delayed or lost luggage, but I'll not plan a hunt if I have to used rented weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
I have an email from the German Embassy saying that no such permit is required if rifles are "in transit". Lufthansa agrees. I'm going in September to Baku through Frankfurt....I'm not going to worry about it.

Sounds like you have a lot of faith in a couple of phone conversations. Hope it all works out as you expect.

My rifles and my loads are far too important to me ever to take that sort of chance. So much of the trip is preparing and getting ready as Mr. Williams proclaims NEVER would I go intending to rent or take a chance with not having permits which may be required.

We fly always direct to Johannesburg, spend a day or two visiting friends and then fly north to where ever.

If you fly without the permits please let us know how you make out. Hopefully you shall sail right through with no problems.

Sounds like a bummer to me. In 2011, my SAA flight was delayed so I ended up getting rerouted through Frankfurt at the last minute. My travel agent, Barb Wolrbink, gave Lufthansa literally about an 8 hour advanced notice because up until about 5am PST the day of my flight, I thought I would be flying direct to JNB on SAA.

Now that I live in Dallas, the DFW to Frankfurt to JNB route is really convenient. Guess I'll get some permits.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Rent your guns!
I have done that on my last 4 hunts and it has been perfect and less hassle.

Oh Boy. We might all end up doing it one of these days.

OK I got back a few days ago. As stated I called Lufthansa prior to departure and all they needed was to be notified of my intention to check a rifle, and they wanted the make/model/sn. I checked my rifles in Chicago on Lufthansa with no problem. No fee, no permit, no sweat. (Their website says there is a fee to check a firearm on any flight connecting to Africa.) When I got to Frankfurt, I checked with SAA and they confirmed that the baggage had been transferred to my JNB flight and it arrived AOK at JNB. I spent a few days in SA hunting guinea fowl (with the emphasis on hunting not shooting) and then went on to BYO. No hassles, only we had to check the ammo separately in a locked box.

Going back, I checked bags in at BUQ (Bulawayo) all the way to Portland OR (PDX), even though I had three separate tickets, SAA to JNB, LH JNB to ORD, UA ORD to PDX. Bags did not show in Chicago, they were stuck at Frankfurt. Got home. Cop from Chicago called me and accused me of not declaring firearms to the airline (Lufthansa). I set her straight, rifle was declared at checkin at Bulawayo. From that point on, the airlines (SAA, LH, UA) need to communicate among themselves. It's called a baggage agreement. But when the bags finally arrived at home a couple of days late, there was no SAA Firearms tag on it, don't know whether that was removed or what. In retrospect, I should have declared teh firearm a second time at JNB when I went thru the transit checkin. They did ask for the luggage tags at that point.

The biggest screwup on the whole trip was here in PDX on departure (with UA of course). At the gate I was called because "there is a locked metal box in your luggage and TSA wants to open it". I guess their Xray can't see thru a metal box, or if it does they don't trust their film. UA sent a runner back with my keys and by some miracle the bag made it to Chicago where I rechecked everything on LH.

quote:

Originally posted by GOB:

Sounds like you have a lot of faith in a couple of phone conversations. Hope it all works out as you expect.

My rifles and my loads are far too important to me ever to take that sort of chance. So much of the trip is preparing and getting ready as Mr. Williams proclaims NEVER would I go intending to rent or take a chance with not having permits which may be required.

We fly always direct to Johannesburg, spend a day or two visiting friends and then fly north to where ever.

If you fly without the permits please let us know how you make out. Hopefully you shall sail right through with no problems.

Not really sure what else I could do. I have more faith in my own research than something posted on the internet. As far as I'm concerned I have all the permits that are required. My rifle is important to me too

Bwana,

I do not trust anyone or anything when there is a liberal behind the woodwork. It appears that others are now having problems. I wish you 1,000% success and joy.

Me I will never now intentionally fly through Amsterdam or Frankfort. Delta Johannesburg and Johannesburg north has always worked for us and until it becomes broken an needs fixed I am not going to change. We have a business in England and NEVER would I fly through London to Africa.

Good luck and still please let us know if you make it without the 20 euro robbery.

My only options on this trip are Frankfurt and Istanbul....I've flown through both several times without issue as I have London so I can't foresee any problems this time either. Perhaps being Canadian has it's benefits! I'll let everyone know how it goes.

http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=642



Hunting Firearms Confiscated in Frankfurt

(posted August 02, 2013)

A hunter has reported that his firearms were confiscated in Frankfurt, Germany, while he was trying to board a connecting flight with Air Namibia. The reason is that he did not have a transit/import permit for his firearms and was forced to claim his bags between flights. The hunter, who wishes to remain anonymous, flew to Frankfurt aboard Lufthansa, which has an interline baggage agreement with Air Namibia but could not check through his luggage because he originated travel with United Airlines. United does not have an interline baggage agreement with Air Namibia and checked the bags only to Frankfurt, where the hunter had to claim his bags and subsequently clear immigration and customs, officially entering Germany with the firearms.

If you are flying into Frankfurt to connect on another flight, here are some tips to prevent being forced to claim your bags, courtesy of Steve Turner of Travel with Guns:

· Book the entire trip on one ticket. If you book the flights on separate tickets or itineraries, you may not be able to check your bags through to your final destination even if you fly on partner airlines with an interline baggage agreement.

· If your originating flight is with a third airline (in this case United, which is a partner of Lufthansa but not of Air Namibia) arrange your international connection so that you have time to claim your bags at your departing international airport and have Lufthansa (or whatever international carrier you are using) check your bags to your final destination. Otherwise, you will be forced to claim your bags in Frankfurt. At that point anyone without a European Union Firearms Pass will need a transit/import permit. Remember, it takes up to four weeks to process the application. See Firearm Transfer Permit Requirement for Hunters Transiting Frankfurt, Germany in the website uploads section of our website for information on getting a permit.

· If you do have to claim your bags with a firearm, make sure you use the "Red Exit" at customs control at the airport and not the "Green Exit." Firearms and ammunition must always be declared to German Customs officials upon entry without being asked. If no customs official is present at the time, take your bags to the customs examinations office on the right side of the customs barrier/customs control area and declare the firearms to an agent there.

The hunter whose guns were confiscated did not declare his firearms to customs, but when he tried to check in with Air Namibia, the ticket agent told him she had to call the airport police. When the hunter could not produce a permit and could not pay the $2,000US fine a magistrate levied over the telephone with the police officer, the firearms were confiscated.

It is worth noting that the hunter, who knew nothing of the transit/import permit, says the police officer was quite adamant that even if he had remained in transit and never claimed his bags he would have needed the permit. The police officer told him he could get the permit from the Weapons, Hunting and Fishing Department with the City of Frankfurt. You may recall from the story in the August issue of The Hunting Report that Sabrina Stock is with this department and is the person who told us that all transiting hunters with firearms must secure a transit permit.

We are following up with the airport police to confirm this information. In the meantime, anyone who is not a citizen of a European Union member country and/or does not have an EU Firearms Pass should strongly consider getting a transit permit when passing through Frankfurt with firearms, even when remaining in transit or leaving the firearms in bond with customs. The cost is 20 Euros or about $50 US with wire transfer fees.

Get important news bulletins like this sent directly to your email 24 hours before anyone else sees them, plus unlimited access to our database of hunt reports and past articles, a special expanded electronic version of our newsletter and more! Upgrade your Hunting Report subscription to Email Extra today. Click here for more information.

It sad how many folks said they were absolutely not going to bother with these forms. Well looks to me like a quick way to ruing a great hunt for trying to be stubborn.

The bottom line is to check the latest regulations for flying to your destination in ample time to either comply with any regulation changes or to plan another alternative route to your destination.

Check and comply before you fly is the bottom line.

Several things went down in the above story.....he took possession of firearms.....he passed through customs without declaring he had them.......

My research still says for firearms in transit you don't need it. Perhaps if you are taking possession of firearms in Frankfurt you do. Either way, I don't think he lost his guns because he didn't have the permit...it's because he failed to declare them to customs officials. The same thing would happen in any country in the world.

I found out today Air Namibia wants $100 per rifle each way. Also $300.00 for saddles,I'm taking a packsaddle. Rapist bastards.

quote:

Originally posted by bullwaller:
I found out today Air Namibia wants $100 per rifle each way. Also $300.00 for saddles,I'm taking a packsaddle. Rapist bastards.

I did witness a European hunter being charged an 80 Euro fee on my flight. He was standing beside me at the check in. I was not charged anything.
I have no explanation for the disparate treatment.

I returned recently from a buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. Used the outfitter gun for the first time in 15 African hunts. The traveling was a breeze, the hunt disappointing! I didn't realize how much your own firearm, your own practice, your own loads add to the experience. Well, you anti bastards have won. You have made it so difficult and unpleasant to travel with firearms I guess I will just stay home. Luckily I live in a great place to hunt. It is everywhere in the world even if your host country is firearms friendly you may have to transit through countries which are not. Oh how stupid!

They only win if you let them win....I'm still happily traveling with my own rifles. If it costs a few extra bucks....so be it!

Rifles in transit made it through Frankfurt last week with no issues or permit required.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
They only win if you let them win....I'm still happily traveling with my own rifles. If it costs a few extra bucks....so be it!

but Jim is living and hunting in a place where a lot are just dreaming to come ... i live there too ,...

quote:

Originally posted by jhaney:
I returned recently from a buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. Used the outfitter gun for the first time in 15 African hunts. The traveling was a breeze, the hunt disappointing! I didn't realize how much your own firearm, your own practice, your own loads add to the experience. Well, you anti bastards have won. You have made it so difficult and unpleasant to travel with firearms I guess I will just stay home. Luckily I live in a great place to hunt. It is everywhere in the world even if your host country is firearms friendly you may have to transit through countries which are not. Oh how stupid!

i don't believe for a second you are not going back to Africa, Jim- with or without your rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
They only win if you let them win....I'm still happily traveling with my own rifles. If it costs a few extra bucks....so be it!

but Jim is living and hunting in a place where a lot are just dreaming to come ... i live there too ,...

And I live in an area where people dream of hunting too...that's hardly an excuse to give into the anti gun nuts and let them win. I want to see the world with my own rifle and I will keep fighting for that privilege. It saddens me that others won't

No issues coming back through Frankfurt with firearms in transit either. Perhaps if you have to take possession of firearms there it's a different story but for guns in transit definitely no permit requirement.

Problem goes away with rented guns...

I understand the emotional attachment to them and like my own. But the hassle factor is not worth it any longer. I do not look at the gun and say, "Wow, what a great job you did." I look at the pictures and enjoy remembering what I did.

What problem?????

Nothing emotional for me with my guns...I just like knowing where a rifle shoots when I pull the trigger.....especially at longer ranges.