I hope I am not repeating previous answers.

Briefly in May 2013 I will be travelling to WinH from Toronto. The travel agent has routed us through NY via American Airlines (two hour changeover)then to JOBurg via South Africian, then to WindH via Air Namibia.

As I understand it all flights are interconnecting so we will probably not taking possession of our checked baggage an rifles in any of these transfers but ??

We had originally planned to have the safari operator supply rifles but are now considering taking our own if we have not left it too late.

I assume that major paperwork is necessary to get the rifles into the US then to SA then to Nam but again ???

Can anyone suggest the correct procedures, a reputable company to carry out this project or something radical like prior shipping the rifles?

Thanks for any advice.

double check with american last i heard they were not taking guns

Suggest you go to the African Travel section and do a search. This subject has been discussed a lot.

We have gone twice, both times Toronto - Washington Dulles - Jo'berg, on United. You need to allow lots of time to get through the American red tape.

Hugh

You cannot transit through the USA with firearms legally.

Try Toronto to Amsterdam or Frankfurt, then to Windhoek.

I was told the same thing that Constructoman says, i.e. there is no legal way to transit the U.S. with guns.

Toronto to Frankfurt, to Windhoek is legal and worked well for me a couple years ago. Travel was arranged by Kathi Klimes at Wild Travel, who specializes in travel for hunters and is familiar with all the specifics of flying with guns. No problems whatsoever, and you avoid all the problems associated with the TSA. This also negates any need to deal with South Africa's infamous Jo'berg.

Of late, some folks have gotten rifles through the US to Africa. My impression was that it wasn't easy and you may not have enough time. I second the suggestion to call Kathi, she is good.

Good luck and enjoy the trip.

Dean

Following butchloc's advice, I checked with American Airlines; apparently no problem with checking our rifles other than the usual: locked case, unloaded, extra baggage charges etc.

However, American said I was responsible for complying with all government regs. I emailed ATF to see what permits, forms, etc are required.

Perhaps I contacted the wrong agency- maybe State, Homeland Security etc. Any advice would be appreciated.

we are committed to the current airline routing; to change now is $$$.

Following contact with the Canadian government, I have applied for a temporary export permit for the rifles and scopes ("optical weapons sights" to the govt!). Apparently the Canadian export permit may be necessary for import to the US, SA, NM and reimport back to Canada.

My next challenge is determining what are the US requirements. Thanks for any help.

Many thanks to those who have provided info.

Today I checked with ATF about the US entry paperwork. Normally a form "Import of a Firearm into the US by a non-resident Alien" is required (6NA1?).

However in my case the rifles are considered to be "in transit" and a permit is not required. If I was to stay overnight in the US between my flight from Toronto to NYC and the flight to JoBurg, the permit would be required. As the flights are connecting, no apparent permit requirement.

I am asking for a written statement from ATF to this effect to hopefully speed the original check in Toronto.

My next challenge is the SA import requirements but the "in transit" status to NA might apply. Any advice??

Lastly, after our NA hunt we are returning to SA for a two week tourist tour of SA leaving from Port Elizabeth back to the US then to Toronto. I am a little unsure about how to handle the rifles on the two week tourist tour. I assume that the rifles in the locked case can be left in the hotel each night but I have no information to suggest that this is so.

Again, any advice on this matter would be appreciated. Thanks.

As a caution I would say to have the SAPS paperwork filled out and ready to go in case there is a glitch. Sounds like everything is on one ticket which is great as far as checking normal luggage but you never know what or how individual clerks will view travelling with firearms.

I'd also recommend printing off a hard copy of the respective airlines firearms policies and having it with you.

Dito to that

quote:

Originally posted by hiredgun:
Following butchloc's advice, I checked with American Airlines; apparently no problem with checking our rifles other than the usual: locked case, unloaded, extra baggage charges etc.

However, American said I was responsible for complying with all government regs. I emailed ATF to see what permits, forms, etc are required.

Perhaps I contacted the wrong agency- maybe State, Homeland Security etc. Any advice would be appreciated.

we are committed to the current airline routing; to change now is $$$.

You are correct about not contacting the proper authority.
Since the ATF shed the responsibility of transit permits a few years back it falls on the State Department.

Technically you require a permit from the State Department. (Don't recall the number)
You can only apply through registered firearms broker/dealer, you can not fill it out yourself as you are an alien. It would also cost $500.00 just to apply and pay the fee to the broker. Not worth it.

Hence the earlier advice to go through Holland or Germany.

I know hunters who have gambled and made it through just fine. No enforcement.

Since you are committed to the flight it is your gamble.

Best advice if you do take them on this flight:
NEVER TAKE POSSESSION OF YOUR FIREARM IN THE USA without a permit.
The ATF permit is not adequate for transiting. It is meant for temporary importation.

Good luck.

Thanks for all help.

Here is my latest update on this project. The export permit from Canada is pending. The ATF is confirming that the rifles are in transit through NYC. I assume that somewhere on this site. the requirements for in transit through SA to NA are available as the entry requirements into NA.

I now find that my travel agent has routed us back from Port Elizabeth to Joburg for the return flight to US (in transit) to Toronto. I will now have to get the rifles back into SA (they will not be in transit, since we are taking a two week tourist tour in SA after our NA hunt.

This new trip back to Joburg seems to solve the problem of traveling with the rifles in SA after the NA hunt, since originally we were leaving from PElizabeth. It should now be possible to store the rifles in the JOburg airport pending our two week return to Jo and then home.

Can anyone suggest a way or reputable company to do this? Perhaps checking them into the police station or SA Airlines?

Thanks for any help.

Do yourself a favour. Rent a firearm from your outfitter when you get there. You are asking for trouble. Murphy's law is going to catch up to you.

As far as a reputable company goes I would suggest Ann at Air2000/Hunters Support. I believe that they can store your firearms for the duration of your tourist tour in South Africa. There are a number of firearms clearing firms in South Africa mentioned on this site so Hunters Support is certainly not the only one to offer these services. I've used Hunters Support in the past and have nothing but good to say about them.

To sum up what some previous posters have said, you have a lot of different government paperwork involved and I would expect problems rather than be surprised by government problems.

Earlier you had said that changing the ticket would be major dollars but you may want to consider the costs and uncertainty that you will face flying the route that you are currently flying. From Canada it seems to make more sense for a flight to Europe then on to either South Africa or Namibia directly.

I wish you good luck on your travels, hunt and tourist excursion. I'll be interested in hearing how your travels turn out.

Finally, Constructoman's advice about renting a firearm is well worth considering (as much as I like taking my own firearms with me when hunting).

Went in 2011 through Amsterdam. Used Gracy Travel for guns and customs. Just too easy. They will give you Great service and all current relevant advice required.

Thanks to everyone. My backup plan in all of this is renting rifles from the outfitter.

Like everyone else, I prefer my own rifles. My current plan is to see if I can get all the written authorizations in place prior to departure. If not, I rent.

The ATF has now confirmed in writing that my rifles are in transit, no permit required. This solves the Toronto to NYC outgoing and JoBurg to Washington DC returning. Canadian export permits are pending. No problem bringing the rifles back through Canada customs.

I have the American Airlines written policy on firearms. Next is entry to SA and NA. I assume that the procedures for these countries are straightforward. I will start to review the various services on this site over the weekend for SA and NA entry. Additional recommendations or DYI experiences would be helpful.

to make things really easy, contact steve turner at travelwithguns.com. He knows all the answers and does this on a daily basis, you will be glad you did, it is really easy with his input....

Next time fly through Franfort, then to Windhoek. I did a tour of South Africa last year, before and after my hunt. I opted to borrow rifles because of the hassle of carring them with me. I would do it this way again.

If they are indeed in transit all the way you should be fine but yes absolutely to the temporary export permit. You don't need this for US leg but you do when leaving North America.

I'd talk to Air 2000 regarding Joberg/South Africa.

Fill out all your Namibia paperwork in advance so you can just hand it to them upon arrival...it will save you a ton of time.

Ya, Frankfurt/Windhoek is a way easier route.

I'd be tempted to get a 6N1A for the U.S. just in case. It's free and easy to do.