Looks like Delta's business will be picking up.

Didn't American Airlines do this once before?

This will make the use of camp rifles more and more attractive...

It must be nice, in economic downturns like we are experiencing these past several years to dump a significant number of passengers to other airlines.

Rich

Be sure and let them know why they are on your "no fly" business.

What a bunch of wankers.

Will certainly put a few people off.

Should be interesting to see how this goes over with American Airlines headquarters being in Fort Worth.......not many hunters in Texas.

This will really hurt the South American crowd, both outfitters and hunters if AA lets this stand. Most folks I would bet who travel to Argentina use AA, DFW via Santiago, Chile then to Cordoba. Wow what idiots are running AA? Oh I forgot they are in bankruptcy, wonder why??

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

JUST ANOTHER REASON WHY MY GUNS STAY HOME WHEN I TRAVEL- 80=90% of my flying is done with AA or their partners, including my upcoming elephant hunt in Namibia( i fly into Bots). no fuss, no muss- could care less. sorry for the rest of you, however. this is going to become a lot more common in the next few years. get used to it. the major airlines could give a shiit less what you like. when they all get on board with a similar policy( and they will), what are you going to do, stay home?? when rape is inevitable- well, you know the rest. hunters make up a very small part of the flying market and AA, DELTA, UA, etc. could really care less . they know at the end of the day you will suck it up and do what to takes to get there. and we all know- they are right!. YOU GOING TO STOP GOING TO AFRICA???? DOUBTFUL!

jdollar brings up an interesting point that must be approached from a different angle, providing this is true with AA. I am sure hunters make up a very small part of their customers. So, jdollar is right, who cares?

However, there are a lot of hunters that are frequent business travelers. I fly over 200,000 miles a year and have not sat in a coach seat on AA in years. Numerous people in my company (that are hunters or supporters of hunting and firearms) fly the same. AA is one of our preferred business partners. I will be contacting them to find out if this policy is true. If frequent business flyers voice their concern, it gives a little more force to the position.

By the way, if this is true and AA was my only option, would I stop flying to Africa to hunt? Yes, I would. Everyone who is affected and concerned must get involved to stop this kind of stupidity.

Another of several reasons not to fly on them for anything. Hunters as such may be a small portion of their business. However, when I will not book family trips or business it has to add up. That includes any employees of a small business as well. Why support someone who obviously will not support us?

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
JUST ANOTHER REASON WHY MY GUNS STAY HOME WHEN I TRAVEL- 80=90% of my flying is done with AA or their partners, including my upcoming elephant hunt in Namibia( i fly into Bots). no fuss, no muss- could care less. sorry for the rest of you, however. this is going to become a lot more common in the next few years. get used to it. the major airlines could give a shiit less what you like. when they all get on board with a similar policy( and they will), what are you going to do, stay home?? when rape is inevitable- well, you know the rest. hunters make up a very small part of the flying market and AA, DELTA, UA, etc. could really care less . they know at the end of the day you will suck it up and do what to takes to get there. and we all know- they are right!. YOU GOING TO STOP GOING TO AFRICA???? DOUBTFUL!

That's fine for the majority of the people but what about us left handed shooters? I shoot scoped rifles and there doesn't seem to be a lot of left handed big bores in African Camps.

FWIW, here is a copy of email I just sent to AA:

quote:

It is being widely circulated by Frontiers Int., among others, that AA is refusing to carry firearms for interline transfers for hunters to South America. This is too bad as many Texans, and many more of AA customers are hunters and take this decision quite personally, myself included. I will, as much as possible, avoid using AA until this unfortunate decision is changed. Regards (name removed)

I actually picked up the phone and just called the exec platinum desk.

I'm going to Quebec in November with my son to hunt Red Deer.

They said there had been no policy changes and they were still accepting checked firearms for international travel.

AH - That really is not the problem involved. Their policy change that was reported is when you interface with another airline on your trip. Using AA straighthough to a destination may still be fine, but if you transfer to another airline during your trip it's a no go on checking guns. Example would be flying DFW to Santiago, Chile with a connecting flight to Cordoba, Argentina. Will have to wait and see what develops on this I guess?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I actually picked up the phone and just called the exec platinum desk.

I'm going to Quebec in November with my son to hunt Red Deer.

They said there had been no policy changes and they were still accepting checked firearms for international travel.

I just spoke to the AA Executive Platinum desk and this is a new policy.

Here was my response to their customer service:

I am very concerned about a recent policy change within AA. This policy is the one where you do not accept firearms on AA flights if the passenger is connecting to another airline.

I have been a loyal customer of AA for years and this really disturbs me as an international hunter and saddens me as a loyal AA customer. I am prepared to notify every hunting organization and forum known and ask their members to boycott AA if this cannot be resolved. Maybe you do not care about losing a few hunters, but losing 1000's of frequent business flyers may open your eyes.

I would appreciate a copy of this policy (since you have not posted it on your website) as well as an explanation and possible solution.

Thank you.......Larry

good for you Lary

Update: I received an immediate canned response from AA explaining how to fly with firearms, blah, blah and never touched the subject. So, I got on the phone and waited and got passed around until speaking to someone responsible. This very nice lady was shocked about a policy that she knew nothing about and said she had to get to the bottom of this as her husband has a hunt in Canada that would be affected by this "new policy".

I forwarded her the link here and she assured me she would look into it and get back with me tomorrow by calling me. She even gave me her direct desk line and direct email.

So, let's put AA on supervised probation until we get to the bottom of this.

Several years ago my wife and I used American Airlines for domestic travel. Our experience with them was so bad that I will NEVER use them again unless I absolutely have to fly somewhere and they are the only option.

I finally got a call from AA last week. They insist they have no such policy. However, if the connecting airline has any type of requirements you must show that proof prior to boarding the AA flight. Another example of when "doing what the guy on the ground says" will not work.

I have flown that AA - LAN connection and LAN required my Argentinian firearm import document.

FWIW, and I am a long time but relatively small AA customer (200K mi in my aadvantage acct), I received ZERO besides the initial canned response to my above email.

Things happen, but I can't imagine as big of an outfit as Frontiers is, making a mistake about this. I'd hate to show up for a trip to South America and find out Frontiers is right, not AA's response.

As a matter of fact, I am using AA on a DFW-Santiago-Cordoba (Lan) and return leaving Tuesday, but since we are not carrying guns this issue didn't arise.

I flew American & British via interline connection back in May/June of 2009. On our American flight from San Francisco to London, and subsequent flight on BA from London to Joberg, all went well and our guns arrived just fine. On the way back, however...

American refused to accept our guns from British, and British had to convey us back to San Francisco for American. I was told that American had a policy of not carrying any guns through Heathrow due to strict firearms laws that the Brits have about carriers and that American had violated them a few times and paid stiff fines to the British as a result. Consequently, American quit carrying firearms though London. It all worked out in the end, but it was a big hassle. We were about to board our flight on an AA 767 to come home, but got pulled off and put onto a BA 747 a few hours later.

They've been having these problems for a while. I too am not a large American Airlines passenger, though I've accumlated nearly 400,000 miles over the years. It was nice taking my family of 4 on a trip to South Africa entirely on FF miles, but I guess the next trip may have to go another carrier. Too bad, as I only need about 10,000 miles for my next free trip to Africa on American.

Regardless of their policy, they are a CRAP Airline as far as I am concerned. I have used them to fly from Salt Lake to Texas. After the last flight, and an experience related by one of my customers, I will gladly pay a little extra for my flights, to fly with another airline!

The airlines have no direct control on weather, insurance rates, fuel costs,docking fees,taxes,other competors,TSA,Homeland Security,and regulatory agences. They do have some input as to unions,food cost ,maintance costs and compensation to top management. The lists can go on and on.

The things they do control is the attitude ,relationship and good will to the customer.

And there ,they do an almost perfect job of self destruction. The list of former airlines is proof.

Most of us have experienced some very wonderful people working in the tranportation industry and I am greatful to those who are the "second mile people" . At every opportunity I express thanks to those helpful ones and hope you do likewise. They may be too few we need to keep them on our side. A real smile goes a long way.
Elton

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I flew American & British via interline connection back in May/June of 2009. On our American flight from San Francisco to London, and subsequent flight on BA from London to Joberg, all went well and our guns arrived just fine. On the way back, however...

American refused to accept our guns from British, and British had to convey us back to San Francisco for American. I was told that American had a policy of not carrying any guns through Heathrow due to strict firearms laws that the Brits have about carriers and that American had violated them a few times and paid stiff fines to the British as a result. Consequently, American quit carrying firearms though London. It all worked out in the end, but it was a big hassle. We were about to board our flight on an AA 767 to come home, but got pulled off and put onto a BA 747 a few hours later.

They've been having these problems for a while. I too am not a large American Airlines passenger, though I've accumlated nearly 400,000 miles over the years. It was nice taking my family of 4 on a trip to South Africa entirely on FF miles, but I guess the next trip may have to go another carrier. Too bad, as I only need about 10,000 miles for my next free trip to Africa on American.

We found the same AA issue on our 2009 trip which caused us to have to re-route through DFW-Madrid-Joburg instead.

quote:

Originally posted by txsouthpaw:
This will make the use of camp rifles more and more attractive...

Not going to happen. My double 470 was purchased specifically for Africa as was my 416. A big part of any hunt is in the preparation. Loading ammunition specifically for a hunt is all part of that preparation.

If my firearms cannot travel with me, I am not going.

me to

I'm not going without my guns. They are as important to the trip as anything else. I have no desire to hunt with a borrowed gun for any animal, anywhere. I'll do it if my guns don't make the flight, but it wont be the same and I'll never set out on a trip without them.

To each his own......I like my personal guns as much or more than most people but some would apparently give up hunting Africa, or anywhere besides their backyard if they couldn't take their guns, seems like a really stupid stance to me, but that's their choice.

It may well come to that in various countries or the charges for carriage may get so high that most people won't want to pay them. Time will tell. In the interim, my family and/or I will hunt with our guns where practicable but we'll hunt without them using what is available locally where it isn't.

Glad I saw this post. I fly AA/LAN Sept 3rd to Argentina with 2 shotguns (hopefully!!) Anyone have an update on this?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
To each his own......I like my personal guns as much or more than most people but some would apparently give up hunting Africa, or anywhere besides their backyard if they couldn't take their guns, seems like a really stupid stance to me, but that's their choice.

It may well come to that in various countries or the charges for carriage may get so high that most people won't want to pay them. Time will tell. In the interim, my family and/or I will hunt with our guns where practicable but we'll hunt without them using what is available locally where it isn't.

amen to that. as travel with firearms gets more restrictive( and it most definitely will), it will be interesting to see how many people actually choose to stay home. in a perverse way, it might open up discounted opportunities for those of us willing to shoot whatever is available. frankly however, i bet attitudes will change- when the choice becomes go- no go, i seriously doubt most of the purists will stay home and let the rest of us reap the benefits.

As a former pilot for American Airlines, this will probably sound prejudiced but I assure you, there is no love lost between the company and myself. So take this with a grain of salt if you wish.

I recently booked my trip to Zim, leaving 11 Oct 12 and returning on 25 Oct 12. I wanted to fly Delta from DFW-ATL-JNB-HRE due to the direct flight from ATL to JNB. The JNB to HRE leg would be on SAA. Shawn at Gracy Travel advised me to take the Dulles / Dakar/ Joberg / HRE route on SAA instead as Delta has been frequently refusing to interline transfer rifles or as I understood it, any bags at all from Delta to SAA once arriving in JNB. She said that to take that route, it would be best to accept the rifles in JoBerg, clear them with SAPS, and recheck them to HRE on SAA myself.

If this is true, it seems that AA is not the only airline that has picked up on this policy.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
As a former pilot for American Airlines, this will probably sound prejudiced but I assure you, there is no love lost between the company and myself. So take this with a grain of salt if you wish.

I recently booked my trip to Zim, leaving 11 Oct 12 and returning on 25 Oct 12. I wanted to fly Delta from DFW-ATL-JNB-HRE due to the direct flight from ATL to JNB. The JNB to HRE leg would be on SAA. Shawn at Gracy Travel advised me to take the Dulles / Dakar/ Joberg / HRE route on SAA instead as Delta has been frequently refusing to interline transfer rifles or as I understood it, any bags at all from Delta to SAA once arriving in JNB. She said that to take that route, it would be best to accept the rifles in JoBerg, clear them with SAPS, and recheck them to HRE on SAA myself.

If this is true, it seems that AA is not the only airline that has picked up on this policy.

Todd this is really something new and I have not ever had this problem from Delta. In fact Delta agents seem to be overzealous and will try and through-check your baggage/firearms even if you do have an overnight in Johannesburg. I am not aware of any of may clients who traveled this year having had this problem, and there have been many clients who have made the same evening connection to both Harare and Lusaka off the Delta flight.

If anyone else has had this problem with Delta please let me know as I would very much like to take it up with them

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Turner - Total Travel Solutions:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
As a former pilot for American Airlines, this will probably sound prejudiced but I assure you, there is no love lost between the company and myself. So take this with a grain of salt if you wish.

I recently booked my trip to Zim, leaving 11 Oct 12 and returning on 25 Oct 12. I wanted to fly Delta from DFW-ATL-JNB-HRE due to the direct flight from ATL to JNB. The JNB to HRE leg would be on SAA. Shawn at Gracy Travel advised me to take the Dulles / Dakar/ Joberg / HRE route on SAA instead as Delta has been frequently refusing to interline transfer rifles or as I understood it, any bags at all from Delta to SAA once arriving in JNB. She said that to take that route, it would be best to accept the rifles in JoBerg, clear them with SAPS, and recheck them to HRE on SAA myself.

If this is true, it seems that AA is not the only airline that has picked up on this policy.

Todd this is really something new and I have not ever had this problem from Delta. In fact Delta agents seem to be overzealous and will try and through-check your baggage/firearms even if you do have an overnight in Johannesburg. I am not aware of any of may clients who traveled this year having had this problem, and there have been many clients who have made the same evening connection to both Harare and Lusaka off the Delta flight.

If anyone else has had this problem with Delta please let me know as I would very much like to take it up with them

You may be correct Steve. I'm just reporting what Shawn told me and why she preferred I book with SAA through Dulles instead of Delta through ATL. Trust me, I would much rather take that direct flight. This became a topic as I informed her I wanted to try and continue through to HRE instead of overnighting in Joberg this time. She said that Delta had refused to interline transfer some bags for her previous clients. IIRC, she told me it is hit or miss with them. Anyway, it was enough to convince me as I really want to avoid the Joberg clearing this time if possible.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone has experienced this with Delta. However, about the Delta agents being overzealous and trying to book through to HRE even if you overnight, that hasn't been my experience on my last two trips to Zim with Delta. Both times, I overnighted at the Airport Hotel in JNB and was required to collect my bags, clear SAPS and recheck the following morning with SAA.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Turner - Total Travel Solutions:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
As a former pilot for American Airlines, this will probably sound prejudiced but I assure you, there is no love lost between the company and myself. So take this with a grain of salt if you wish.

I recently booked my trip to Zim, leaving 11 Oct 12 and returning on 25 Oct 12. I wanted to fly Delta from DFW-ATL-JNB-HRE due to the direct flight from ATL to JNB. The JNB to HRE leg would be on SAA. Shawn at Gracy Travel advised me to take the Dulles / Dakar/ Joberg / HRE route on SAA instead as Delta has been frequently refusing to interline transfer rifles or as I understood it, any bags at all from Delta to SAA once arriving in JNB. She said that to take that route, it would be best to accept the rifles in JoBerg, clear them with SAPS, and recheck them to HRE on SAA myself.

If this is true, it seems that AA is not the only airline that has picked up on this policy.

Todd this is really something new and I have not ever had this problem from Delta. In fact Delta agents seem to be overzealous and will try and through-check your baggage/firearms even if you do have an overnight in Johannesburg. I am not aware of any of may clients who traveled this year having had this problem, and there have been many clients who have made the same evening connection to both Harare and Lusaka off the Delta flight.

If anyone else has had this problem with Delta please let me know as I would very much like to take it up with them

You may be correct Steve. I'm just reporting what Shawn told me and why she preferred I book with SAA through Dulles instead of Delta through ATL. Trust me, I would much rather take that direct flight. This became a topic as I informed her I wanted to try and continue through to HRE instead of overnighting in Joberg this time. She said that Delta had refused to interline transfer some bags for her previous clients. IIRC, she told me it is hit or miss with them. Anyway, it was enough to convince me as I really want to avoid the Joberg clearing this time if possible.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone has experienced this with Delta. However, about the Delta agents being overzealous and trying to book through to HRE even if you overnight, that hasn't been my experience on my last two trips to Zim with Delta. Both times, I overnighted at the Airport Hotel in JNB and was required to collect my bags, clear SAPS and recheck the following morning with SAA.

Steve Turner booked our tickets on Delta into JNB and then to SAA into HRE and our return to US this July. On the return flights we checked our bags straight through to Atlanta on Delta from HRE on SAA without any issue. On the flight over we spent the night in JNB and had to go through SAPS but that was not a problem.

This was my 6th trip to Africa (first to Zim) on Delta without any issues, thanfully...Steve Turner is a pleasure to deal with...

Todd, I've been flying primarily AA since the early 80's. Tried to go to Bulawayo in May on miles, using BA thru Heathrow, but would have had to overnight in JoBurg & the hotel and SAPS expense (plus any potential Heathrow problems). In addition to that hassle, the ff ticket taxes on the DFW/JoBurg leg were $1100, plus cost of a ticket from JoBurg to Bulawayo. I ended up booking w/Steve Turner, AA from DFW to JFK, overnighting there, and doing the SAA JFK/JoBurg/Bulawayo for $1700 & saved my miles for another day. Thru-checked my rifle in JFK & did not see it until Bulawayo. Totally trouble free return flight, also.

All good news about the Delta route as I've taken that one numerous times and prefer it.

However, JJS, your example doesn't address this issue. On your return flight, SAA interline transfered your bags as you have described it, not Delta. On the way over, you spent the night in JNB, and cleared your guns, then rechecked them yourself the following morning. So Delta never had the opportunity to interline the bags. SAA had the opportunity on the way back, but not Delta. There is a difference. Ultimately, it isn't really a problem. I just prefer to check them all the way through and not have to handle them myself, mid sequence.

I've done this schedule you've described numerous times but I wanted to avoid the overnight and clearing in JNB this time. I wanted to try the same day connection on to HRE. It was this part of the itinerary and this part alone, that Shawn advised that ON SOME OCCASIONS, DELTA HAS REFUSED TO INTERLINE TRANSFER THE BAGS. Actually I don't remember if she said "bags" or just the "rifles". I think she said the "bags". I can check on that and get back. And to be specific, she said they don't ALWAYS refuse to do so. This would make me think it is an individual agent issue instead of an airline policy. Question is, what happens if the agent in ATL or your place of origin, checks it all the way through to HRE or where ever your final destination is, then you get the agent in JNB that refuses. You show up in HRE but get no bags.

So bottom line for me, on this upcoming trip that I have booked, I wasn't willing to take a chance with an airline that my travel agent advised has caused problems for her clients on occasion, assuming of course, an alternate plan is available, such as SAA.

TXSouthpaw,

Back in 06, I still had flight benefits and tried to get to JNB via AA and it's affiliates. Oh man, what a nightmare. Ended up paying full fare going through MIA and Madrid with 14 hr layovers in Madrid both ways. Just turned out to be a nightmare. I had a bunch of FF miles as well from a business I was running and was laughed at when attempting to use them to get to Africa. Totally useless.

Concerning Steve's routing you through JFK and using SAA, yeah, that's very similar to what Shawn did for me except I'm going SAA through Dulles. Of course, with SAA being the only international connections, there is no interline transfer necessary except for the initial domestic transfer at JFK in your case, and Dulles in mine.

Listen guys, before this thread goes south, please realize I'm not advocating SAA over Delta ( I much prefer Delta), nor Delta over AA, (I much prefer Delta), not disparaging Steve and his company or anything like that. AFAIK, he has a super, stellar reputation booking travelers all over the place while carrying firearms. In addition, I'm not in the business of booking travelers and therefore don't know what the actual situation is concerning interline transfer of bags by Delta on the ground in JNB. I'm simply relaying the information that was given to me by the professional that I use for such travel, the route she ultimately booked me on, and the reasons why. Specifically, the ONLY reason she didn't book me on Delta was my desire to not have mess around with clearing and rechecking bags in JNB with a 3 hr connection time. She was not confident Delta would make it happen.

Quick update on how my trip from Birmingham, AL to Cordoba, Argentina went with the new AA policy of not interlining firearms in effect.

So basically there are 2 policies the come into play here. AA will not interline (transfer) firearms to a different airline. In my case it was LAN. AA also has a policy that they will not short check bags (i.e. in my case check from Birmingham to Miami) so that you can pick up bags yourself and check with another airline. So...sound hopeless right.

But..big BUT...in the case of firearms they will make an exception and let you short check your bags and transfer yourself.

My first couple calls to AA to find a solution didn't go well. Only option I was given was to redo my ticket and make it 2 seperate tickets. One for AA and one for LAN. Finally I got the right person on the phone and found the loophole. If you're using AA for an interline flight with guns I recommend that you call well ahead of your flight (a month or more) and speak with someone that can have the tariff department of AA have a supervisor put notes into your flight record that short checking is allowed in this case. I had this done and all went well.

Thanks for the info. That said screw AA. I was a platinum member but quit flying them because of one hassle after another. If I have to jump through hoops and still have a chance of things going wrong depending on what clerk you get, I will not use them. They have lost my business up and until they change these policies.