Having just returned from a trip on Delta to Johannesburg:

Upon check in in San Diego, the agent said no ammo in rifle case, checked bag only. I was not pre-armed with the printed Delta policy, as I had been many times before, so I had to give in.

Agent then says the checked bag must be unlocked. I point out their policy is bags containing ammo must be locked. She is perplexed, asks around and then says ok lock it but go to TSA and have them inspect it first.

In Jo-Burg at check in, the security guy that checks the weapons says "new policy" no ammo in rifle case. Again, I give in.

Returning home, my lock is cut and missing on my checked bag, with a TSA inspection certificate inside. So my bag, for some or all of the journey, was unlocked, with ammo inside.

Ways to avoid:

Carry the policy printed with me (usually do...)

Use TSA locks on checked bags.

Problems with solution:

I pride myself on traveling light, so I try to have a carry on bag and checked rifle case ONLY. Ammo separate from rifle case results in two checked bags, more likely to have lost or delayed baggage with 2 bags than one, more to carry etc.

Also, there is no arguing with the local security guy in Jo-Burg, I mean trying to convince them of anything is a pain. I see the same agent manager there every time I go, and they are still really clueless about baggage policy, etc.

So, I am writing to Delta to get some kind of response to educate their agents, especially in Jo-Burg re firearms and ammo policy. Fat chance it will work.

Also, my bags have been pilfered before with TSA locks, I think al the baggage thieves have the unlock key for TSA locks and won't hesitate to break in.

Lastly, I was at some risk for violating TSA rules after they cut my ammo bag lock.

Conclusion: This has been covered many times, but one has to prepare to all contingencies.

Like it or not, I need to remember to always carry the baggage policy with me

and use TSA locks

and even carry the ammo inside a separate locked container inside the checked bag.

Delta Policy

I have been told that ammo is to be in a separate case than firearms on every trip so far. There was never a concern voiced about a lockable hard case for ammunition and I always used a standerd duffle bag.

On delta, I was asked if I had ammonution in my bag to and from jo'burg. But, with my connection to Vic Falls via British Airways (or their flight partner) I was allowed to to put ammo in the hard case with the firearms while going throught the SAPS process in Jo'burg.

Not very consitent among the airlines, or countries anyway, but I have been told the rule about keeping ammo in separate cases from firearms many times.

I flew Delta from Austin-Frankfurt (then Air Namibia on to Windhoek). I had no trouble from the ticketing agent with packing ammunition with my rifles, but I had printed BOTH the TSA and the Delta policies (which explicitly allow such packing) from their respective websites just in case an uninformed agent was encountered.

By the way, the TSA agent who checked our gun cases was friendly and knowledgable and even volunteered to wrap my gun case with official "TSA INSPECTED" strapping tape. The tape was intact when I claimed my gun in Windhoek, providing an extra measure of confidence that my case had not been tampered with. Luggage pilferers are a little reluctant to cut off TSA's tape, it seems.

quote:

In Jo-Burg at check in, the security guy that checks the weapons says "new policy" no ammo in rifle case.

I thought the new policy was that the ammo had to be in the rifle case. If it was put in your checked bag, the bag would be confiscated.

Received the response below from Delta.

A bit disappointing, just a cut and paste of CYA language, basically saying things change all the time so.....tough luck!

The whacyist thing is this guy writes ammo must be separate but their website says it may be in the same bag!

Thank you for your e-mail regarding travel with
ammunition.

Our goal is to provide the highest possible standard
of service in all
areas of our operation, and we regret that we did not
meet your
expectations on this occasion. We monitor performance
throughout our
company, and your comments will be very helpful.

Delta's weapon policies are set according to federal
regulations.
However, passengers must comply with any applicable
local, state, or
federal regulations regarding firearms.

Guns may not be carried on any flight. To check a
weapon, it must be
unloaded and placed in a hard-sided locked case within
one of your
checked bags. The hard case must be locked and you
must have the key.
Upon check-in at our main ticket counter, the gun must
be declared by
filling out a form and a tag placed inside the checked
bag. When
bringing ammunition, it must also be checked in a
separate bag and
inside the original factory sealed carton, wood, hard
fiber or metal
container. Small-arms ammunition must weigh less than
11 pounds.

Required stipulations for traveling with firearms as
checked luggage:

- Weapons must be declared to a Delta agent at the
main ticket counter
upon check-in
- Firearms must be packed and unloaded in original,
factory sealed,
crush-proof container manufactured specifically for
the firearm or in a
hard case
- Baggage or cases containing firearms must be locked
with a key or lock
combination in the possession of the passenger only
- A "Firearms Unloaded" declaration tag must be signed

To find this information on www.delta.com, please
select the following
from our home page:

Traveling & Check-In
Baggage
Special Baggage
Fragile & Bulky
Sporting Goods
Shooting (select from drop-down menu)

It is important for you to have a copy Delta's, TSA's,
and Johannesburg,
South Africa's rules regarding travel with ammunition.
Since these rules
can always change, you may want to check everytime you
travel. Also,
please note that many other countries have different
laws that address
transportation and possession of firearms. If you are
traveling
internationally, please check with the authorities at
your destination
about their requirements.

Information regarding TSA can be located at
www.tsa.gov or the following
web link:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

Safety is our number one priority at Delta and has
been for more than 75
years. As part of that, the security of our operation
is part of
everything we do.

Delta works closely with all relevant government
agencies everywhere we
fly to ensure the safety and security of our flight
and airport
operations. Therefore, you must comply with
Johannesburg's local policy
and this will be true for travel on any airline. The
firearm rules of
the past can be different in the present and future.

Please accept our apology for the poor
impression. Your
comments have been sent to the responsible department
for internal
review. We appreciate your Platinum Medallion loyalty
to Delta and hope
you will continue to make Delta your airline of
choice.

Sincerely,

Thomas Brown
Platinum Medallion Desk
www.delta.com

Check a bag.

Problem solved.

The policy states that: "When bringing ammunition, it must also be checked in a separate bag and
inside the original factory sealed carton, wood, hard fiber or metal container" My question is if the plastic ammo containers are also acceptable? That's what I was planning of using to hold my handloads. I know it was fine on another airlines for a tip to Alaska.

It's disheartening when Delta cites its website, then doesn't even know what it's own website says. Here it is, copied directly:

Rifles
One rifle case containing:

two or fewer rifles (with or without scopes)
one shooting mat
one small pistol tool kit
noise suppressers
11 lbs. (approx. 5kgs) of ammunition

Get It? You can take "one rifle case containing (all of the above, and) "11 lbs. of ammunition".

The Delta website is very specific that the ammunition may be packed with the rifle(s). It says nothing about the ammunition being "factory sealed". It also does not specifically say that it is acceptable to pack ammunition anywhere OTHER than the rifle case (although it is not specifically prohibited).

These requirements mirror those of TSA on the subject.

It gets worse.

I have, since my last posting, had two exchanges in response to the above quoted email from Delta citing the section of their website, as noted by Stonecreek. Here is Delta's latest response:

"The information you reviewed on our Web site is
correct. As long as your weapons are in a hard sided locked case, and your ensure your ammunition is packed in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in
fiber, wood or metal boxes and place in a separate piece of your checked luggage you will be set."

WOW still not following (or reading) what is on their site.
Yes, I can always check two bags, but it is faster and easier to only check one, the rifle case, with ammo inside.

What a pain.

I have always found that the MTM plastic boxes fit right back inside the factory cardboard boxes, and no one evn blinks about that. I like to keep all my empties separate also. Nice gift for the PH also, when you leave, if he reloads.

Well, 404WJJeffery, I guess you can explain it for them, but you can't understand it for them. Why is it that we dumb hunters can read and comprehend plain English, but Mr. Thomas Brown of the Platinum Medallion Desk is unable to do so?

Here's the quote directly copied from the TSA website:

Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above.

Any questions?

I don't mess around. Firearms in on container and the ammo in another. It seems to make everyone happy regardless of airline.

Does the Delta policy mean that you can only carry two firearms, or, two rifles and a sidearm?

Someone mentioned using TSA locks on your luggage to insure the safety of your ammo in your checked baggage. My TSA locks were cut off in Atlanta this last July returning from South Africa. It makes you wonder.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
Does the Delta policy mean that you can only carry two firearms, or, two rifles and a sidearm?

The Delta policy means that you may only carry two long guns PER CASE and not be charged an overweight/oversized baggage fee. If you take more than two long guns, then you will likely need to take two gun cases.

If you carry a three- or four- long gun case, then that case will be charged an excess (overweight/size) bag fee regardless of its acutal size or weight. However, a case with more than two long guns could conceivably be refused by the agent since it is not specifically permitted, but rather permitted only by inference that it would be charged an extra fee.

No more than five handguns may be carried in a single case within the "free" baggage allotment.

The policies are unclear as to what occurs if you choose to carry one long gun and one or more handguns in the same case, but I think it is clear that carrying two long guns PLUS a handgun in the same case would not be within the policy, although it is possible that you might get by with it.

No matter what the combination or number of guns within a given case, you may carry up to 11 lbs. of ammunition inside the same case as any firearms. And regardless of whether the ammunition is carried within your firearms case or in another piece of checked baggage, it must be packaged as specified in (paraphrasing) "fiber, wood, metal, or other container specifically designed for ammunition" (it is not necessary that it be "factory sealed", particularly since there usually is no such thing).

All of this is subject to the maximum limitation that most airlines, including Delta, have of 70 lbs. for any one piece of luggage.

quote:

Originally posted by hacksawtom:
I don't mess around. Firearms in on container and the ammo in another. It seems to make everyone happy regardless of airline.

matches my experience too. i put the ammo inside my checked bag in a small MTM ammo container with a TSA padlock on it and a luggage strap with a TSA lock sewed into one end around the bag. never had a problem. must admit though that recently i have been using a rifle supplied by the outfitter just to save the potential hassle.

I am taking my first flight to Namibia in May. I have found both TSA's and Delta's regs concerning firearms and ammunition, but have not been able to locate Air Namibia's. Anyone know where this info can be found? I have been told that Air Namibia specifically requires a locked ammo case seperate from the rifle.

I flew Delta to JNB last June. The Delta web site is specific to Delta. TSA regulations are different. Delta personnel mandated that the ammunition be in a checked bag and separate from the firearm. I wrote them about it and my response was should some miscreant get my rifle case they would not have ammunition readily available to load it with. After a night at Afton house I took a flight to Lusaka on South African Air Lines. I mentioned to the agent that my ammunition was in the TSA locked luggage and she pulled my bag right off the line, telling me that the bag would have been confiscated if x-ray had detected ammunition inside. I had to unlock my rifle case and my checked bag and shift the ammunition to my rifle case to satisfy her. The line of people behind me were not very understanding. When I mentioned to the SAA person that Delta had required the opposite she said "well sir their are the STATES and then there is the rest of the world." I thought she was rude and an idiot but did what I was told and off I went to Lusaka.
Maybe the answer you get depends on the person you deal with at the time in Africa. Delta, in my experience, will require that rifles and ammunition not be in the same container. I wanted my ammunition and rifle together in case my checked bag was lost or delayed. I lost the discussion.

Unbelievable. I just flew from CO to AL with my rifle and on leaving Montrose I was specifically asked if my ammo was in the original factory cartons and seperate from my rifle. Neither TSA's or Delta's online regs require that ammo be i factory cartons OR seperated from the rifle. Nuts.... I am going to pack ammo apart from rifle but in locked plastic ammo carriers and hope for the best.

last trip (sept 07) we carried ammo in our baggage and then transfered it into the gun case in joberg.

In all of the years I have flown with guns.... ammo is put in a separate bag. Have never seen it any other way. This includes several more than 5 trips overseas and many trips in the US and Canada..... never seemed to have a problem

Well, on my way back to Colorado yesterday I specifically ask the Delta attendant if original factory boxes were required for ammo. She said yes, and when I showed her the regs from TSA's web site contradicting this, she called a manager. The manager told us that Delta's rules had changed recently and not only are factory ammo boxes NOT required but ammo can now be packed in the case with the rifle. She agreed that as the TSA web site indicates ammo can be packed in any appropriate ammo carrier. Wish they could get their act together.

TSA defers to the carriers, and I believe they have a statement to that effect on the TSA web site.

George

quote:

Originally posted by LRH270:
Check a bag.

Problem solved.

Ditto.

This sort of thing will always depends on the person checking you in.

At least that has been my experience with a number if airlines.

One time you might get one who won't even ask a question, just put you through.

The next one might such an idiot that he will run you throw hoops to explain to him what you are actually trying to do is perfectly legal.

If this happens, stand your ground, be polite, and work yourself up the ladder of authority.

You will always get through.

I flew to Denver in 87' with two rifles in one hard case, ammo in the checked bags in MTM cases. At check in the agent told me the ammo had to be in a hard locked case, separate from the guns AND NOT IN CHECKED BAGS.

NOT what their own rules stated. We went round and round, she refusing to show me the "rules" she was using. I told her to get a supervisor, she said she didn't need one. I told her she was going to need one when I came over that counter(pre 9/11).

The supervisor came out to see what the prob was and I explained it to him. He looked up the rules(I was correct) and told the girl to get the bags on the plane ,now, and then come to his office. He was pissed.

We laughed all the way to Denver, where we discovered that we had NO guns, or checked bags. They showed up two days later, having gone Birmingham to Denver via New York and elsewhere!

troy

The rule a couple of years ago about ammo was that, if the checked bag the ammo was in was not a hard case, then it had to be in a lockable container. This makes sense. Ii also make also makes sense to let folks put it in their rifle cases. You could put your factory boxed ammo in your rifle case, but if your SAA agent told you to take it out, and you did not have a lock box, you'd be violating someone's regs. I will probably continue to put my ammo in plastic, lockable boxes and put them in my checked bag. Kudude

It ain't rocket science folks, but apparently it is, especially with female agents. The fix is easy, carry a set of TSA AND the airline you are flying with polices, then when they get testy, you can show them the rules and you'll be on your way. Also, be real "nice" and ask the offending MORON for their name & ID number. jorge

The "Where the ammo goes questions" has an easy answer. Put it where the check-in person tells you to put it. Use factory boxes for ammo and properly headstamped cartridge cases. Don't try to outsmart a system that has no consistency. You can't do it. All your intelligence and wisdom will not help you with a counter employee that KNOWS THE RULES. Smile and nod your head as long as you are getting to and from Africa with your guns which is the object of the trip is it not? Who cares if the airline folks or TSA are wrong as long as you and your luggage get on the plane.

Mark

I agree with everything said. I got tripped up because I try to fly checking only a rifle case (With ammo inside). Everything else is carry-on. Yes I travel light, and hopefully fast.

The trip in question was porbably the firat time I didn't fly with the Delta rules and TSA regs. Again, most troubling was the Jo-Burg portion where they basically said they didn't care about Delta's rules, but that there was a local rule to contend with.

Oh well. lesson learned, be prepared for all contingencies.

As Saeed noted -- "it all depends on the individual behind the counter"
As Mark noted -" there is no conistancy -" -period!!

Thusly---

Be flexible and be prepared with a printed set of the rules-----------and pray.
G