Hi all,

This is a bit of an odd request. However I have managed to purchase after a LOT of scouring the internet a Ruger #1 Craig Boddington edition 7x57 falling block. Im so pleased to have this rifle!!

I was wondering however if anyone would be willing to bring the rifle out with them for me if you are hunting Zimbabwe, as I live in Bulawayo, Zim? Obviously I dont want anyone to break any laws so Id be prepared to put the rifle in your name, and as I understand it US clients are allowed to leave their guns in Zim after the hunt.

The rifle is currently in NY, but I would pay to have it shipped to you.

If anyone would be kind enough to help me with this I would greatly appreciate it. If you think you can help please feel free to PM me, thanks.

Sincerely,

Mark

Mark,

Welcome to the forum.

I think this is not as easy as it seams.
Because the American govenment requires all sorts of paper work to be done before a rifle is exported.

At least that is my understanding, but may be some of our American friends can update us on this matter.

Legal?
If your hunter (transporter) is a res of NY and the rifle is not in the possession of a FFL dealer a "FTF" could take place. The rifle could legally be shipped within the state without a FFL involved.
The rifle would need to be shipped to a FFL dealer if your hunter is not a res of NY State for transfer.
First question on the 4473 form reads:
Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firarm listed on this form? WARNING: You are not the actual buyerif you are acquiring the firearm on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer the dealer cannot transfer the firearm.

Phil

Thank you for the welcome Saeed, there is a lot of great information on this forum!

Thanks also for your response Phil, so basically I would have to sell the rifle to another hunter for it to be legal. Im prepared to do this for a nominal figure.

Anyone able to help?

Give me a break.

Stupidity check.....

Anyone out there prepared to possibly go to jail for this guy you don't know??

Huh? Sorry to bore you guys

Like I said in my original post I dont want anyone to break any laws on my behalf. Maybe I missinterpreted Phills explanation...but I do know a number of guys in Zim who have received rifles brought out by US hunters. It must happen somehow.

Anyway as they say in Zim, I'll make a plan...

quote:

Originally posted by Matabele:
Huh? Sorry to bore you guys

Like I said in my original post I dont want anyone to break any laws on my behalf. Maybe I missinterpreted Phills explanation...but I do know a number of guys in Zim who have received rifles brought out by US hunters. It must happen somehow.

Anyway as they say in Zim, I'll make a plan...

If you can legally import it, then I'd go that route. If you can't legally import it, then it is almost certainly illegal for someone to bring it in for you and they would be arms smugglers, which is not a parking ticket type of crime.

At the very least, wouldn't that be considered a straw-man Sale/Xfer??

But yes, as I understand Zim law say's proper doc's processing fee's (bribe's) ect. A hunter can leave a rifle with his PH as a gift. U.S Law on the other hand frowns on questionable Firearms exporting specially to a county that's on the bad guy list.. Or did Obama lift that while he was kissing the rest of the extremist worlds ass??

quote:

Originally posted by Matabele:
Huh? Sorry to bore you guys

Like I said in my original post I dont want anyone to break any laws on my behalf. Maybe I missinterpreted Phills explanation...but I do know a number of guys in Zim who have received rifles brought out by US hunters. It must happen somehow.

Anyway as they say in Zim, I'll make a plan...

Obviously you did not know this.
But, the US government does not allow the export of firearms without quite a bit of paper work.
And I think most people would rather not go through this.

Ok, well thanks for the replies everyone, it seems the US restrictions are a lot tougher than I thought they were.

Just for the record It wasnt my intention to get anyone in any trouble. I just thought if its been done before then maybe somebody could help me...but I guess we all know what they say about assumptions.

Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by Matabele:
Ok, well thanks for the replies everyone, it seems the US restrictions are a lot tougher than I thought they were.

Just for the record It wasnt my intention to get anyone in any trouble. I just thought if its been done before then maybe somebody could help me...but I guess we all know what they say about assumptions.

Thanks again.

I believe your intentions were honorable. When in Zimbabwe this past March, I asked a guide where he obtained his Winchester 30-06 and he replied a hunter from the States, who used his services several times, brought it over and gave it to him.

No one said it wasn't possible, but legal is another story. If it is so easy AND LEGAL, why don't you just explain it in here?

Hell, I have personal knowledge of hundred of thousands of dollars worth of smuggled stuff in my younger days, just because it was done and the actors didn't wind up in jail doesn't make it legal. I also might add that the person at real risk is the US citizen who is carrying the firearm.

Agree with Gatogordo. Just because the American Hunter is currently "back in the States with NO PROBLEMS" does NOT mean that a BIG PROBLEM for him doing what he did, will not rear its ugly head in the future. Like Gatogordo said, If it is so easy and LEGAL, explain it to all of us.

+1 !!!!

I sincerely sympathize with our Rhodesian friends, however, it's the American's tit which may be in the ringer!!

BTW zimguide, as I told my Zim PH 3 weeks ago, it's 100% possible to poach Rhino horn in Wankie. So..........

The Zimbabwe paperwork is no problem...and no bribes need to be paid. The problem is the export papers.

And yes, I, along with half the other PH's in the country carry a rifle that 'came out' of the US of A or the EU...but what do the export papers say?

And, many will happily leave behind a rifle as a tip, or sell it to you at the end of the hunt. I have no idea how legal that is under the fine print of US law BUT- Art Alphin and the A square company came appart over the rifle donated to ZPHGA and raffeled at the AGM in 1993 (I think). Art carried that rifle from the USA to Zim for the association and because it was quite high profile and he didn't have an export license, and people were out to get him, Art got nailed. Art got away with it in the end because the winner of the rifle was ....An American! (Yup, only two Americans at the AGM...one donates a rifle and the other, the SCI Africa rep, wins it).

So, like the dung funnel fairies in the US military...don't ask, don't tell and certainly stay off the internet forums - you would be surprised how many government men from many lands lurk on this and other sites looking for info. Speak to me at the AGM...

To permanently export any firearm, firearm part, or even ammo or components thereof (exceptions are empty shotgun shells and sporting shotguns), ie anything on the "Munitions List" governed by the Arms Export Control Act (AECA), one has to get an export permit from the State Dept. I very much doubt such a thing will be granted for a recipient in Zimbabwe. There is an international arms embargo in place for arms and ammo to Zim, and this is likely to stay in place until the gov't in Zim loses its pariah status.

What has happened in the past is that private individuals have ignored the law and "donated" their personal firearms at the conclusion of a hunt. The US govt has no real way to check that a firearm that went out as personal property, comes back. We don't have firearms registration in the USA. However, any dealer is required to maintain a log and in this log he must record every firearm coming in and going out.

And the fact that the rifle has Boddington's name on it is no reason to make exceptions. Not sure why you would go to all this trouble to buy such a thing. Kinda like a "Dale Earnhart" special. Poor taste. At least DE won some races ...

Anything prior to 1898 is exempt as these are not classed as firearms under US law. So a vintage double rifle or shotgun can be taken out.

BTW, anything over 50 cal cannot be taken out even temporarily, personal property or not. This is classed as ordnance.

Thanks for the info Russ. Yep Ive pretty much come to the conclusion its a non-starter.

I take excpetion to your "poor taste" remark though...I have my reasons for buying this gun and having Boddingtons name on it has nothing to do with it...the only reason I bought it was for the calibre. Im also interested in a 9.3x74R, .303 Brit and 450/400 NE 3" in the #1 platform...hope thats ok with you ).

Back to the topic... I have looked in to legally importing this rifle and thats the route Im going to follow.

I have no objections to Ruger no 1s and I am partial to the 9.3x74R caliber but you will struggle to get ammo for it in Zim. The 450/400 is going to be impossible to feed in Zim. Heck, regular 458 ammo is $10/round, if you can get it.

You will not be able to import it legally. The State Dept aside, there is an arms embargo in place so RSA is not going to allow any firearm to cross into Zim, unless it's coming out again. I think Bob secretly supports this embargo, as it doesn't affect him, he gets his from the Chinese. That's why the customs people have tightened up on ammo counting.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
BTW, anything over 50 cal cannot be taken out even temporarily, personal property or not. This is classed as ordnance.

I thought that was changed or clarified a year or so ago. I believe certain guns made purely for sporting purposes can be taken out such as the 600 NE, etc.

"The State Dept aside, there is an arms embargo in place so RSA is not going to allow any firearm to cross into Zim, unless it's coming out again"

Thats very true. However I am a SA Permanent Resident. My plan is to import the rifles into SA...and as and when the ruling changes bring them through into Zim.

Ammo is not a problem as I reload and most components are available in SA...even the "obscure" calibres.

You Americans have it good, but thats also a result of you fighting for your rights (NRA etc) and the fact that your Govt generally respects the will of the people. Its going to be generations before that happens in Zim IMO. Enjoy it, and dont take it for granted!

As a matter of interest, I have just imported a firearm myself from South Africa. I obtained the necessary import permit from the Ministry and trade and commerce(Zim) and the necessary licence from firearms registry.(Zim) I then took the paperwork to the SA based dealer who submitted it to the SAPS . It took a while but I received a letter of authority to export a sporting firearm and the firearm is now with me and shooting regularly in Zim. This was perfectly legal . I did have a letter of support from the sport shooting federation which confirmed the intended use as well.

The embargo is most definitely in place but was implemented by the Americans , EU etc. Therefore they cannot export a firearm or spare etc directly to Zimbabwe. However despite restrictions, a Zimbabwean can still import a firearm(bona fide sporting weapon) from South Africa, Namibia etc

That is interesting ZimFrosty.

Can I ask when exactly you submitted the paperwork to the SA SAPS? I recently received an email from a SA gun dealer and he also said he would not be able to export to Zim due to the embargo. Im wondering if you got your export in before the embargo was put in place...or perhaps there are no restrictions on "bona fide sporting weapon"??

You can PM me if you'd prefer.