Well I just returned from a 3 week stint in Africa and atypically, I tacked on a visit to relatives in Canada upon my return.

I entered via ATL and unfortunately DL offloaded my gun case (but not my other bag) even though both were checked thru to YYZ (Toronto).

After waiting some time for my second bag to show (it didn't), I went thru customs. I showed them the rifle case was tagged thru to YYZ but they made me go thru the normal 4457 check anyway. I was last in line and when I finally went up to face the music, I told the inspector that my bag was not entering the US at all, it was being rechecked to Canada. He told me to open it anyway as I was "In the USA now". When I stated that my other bag had gone straight thru as intended and showed him the tag, he barked at me to "Stand Back" ("Or I will call my supervisor!"). I took out a pen and started making a note of his name. He barked "Hust, first name OFFICER" and then he said he would indeed call his supervisor. I replied that I had a flight to catch and was concerned that I would miss it. He yelled "So does everyone". He then stared at my Valmet 412 receiver unable to find the SN. Fortunately, I had my 4457s which I gave him (pity the poor Canadian who doesn't know what such a thing is) and I "helped" him find the SNs. He muttered something about being alone and doing his job. We wrapped this up and off I went.

When I got to Toronto, I had a similar run-in. I had called ahead and spoken to the RCMP before I left. They said I could leave my firearms at Pearson for the 3 days I would be visiting. Unfortunately, customs had never heard of this and they forced me to fill out the form and pay $25, after first getting very nasty because I had not checked the box about bringing firearms INTO Canada.

But these 2 experiences were NOTHING compared to the treatment I received at US customs upon leaving Toronto. I arrived 3 hours early and went thru passport control, customs, TSA and security in a pretty standard fashion. I showed customs my guns and the 4457s, they checked the SNs, all in order. They asked if I had ever been arrested. I said no. They said "No warrants" and let me go on my way. It was reasonably friendly. TSA peered at the X ray of my second bag and wanted to inspect it. It was my ammo box (metal box) that bothered them, so we got that out and they looked at it. My Contender barrel was in there. They looked at that too. They seemed satisfied and the bags went onto the belt. On to security. I did get singled out for a full body xray, got chewed out because I had my passport and boarding pass in my pocket, and they did go thru my carry on, but no further nastiness there. So with about 2 hours to kill, I was sitting in Departures going thru my papers from the trip when the PA announced my name. I was just getting my stuff back together when a customs officer showed up and demanded to know whether I was the "guy with the guns". I said yes. This was one of two guys who had already looked at my guns and verified the SNs. He said "Follow Me" and started walking back toward security. I had my carry on in one hand and some obsolete papers in the other. On the way out, I put the papers in the garbage. The officer immediately wheeled and demanded to know what I had thrown out. I said "just papers". He fished them out of the garbage can with a belligerent stare and pretty soon I noted that there was another officer to my left, and one behind me. I think there were 4 in all. Thru the back door to customs inspection area. "SIT HERE" I was told. So I sat. There was some whispered conversation among the officers and one, with pips on his shoulders, came over and looked at me with malice but said nothing. I felt small. I asked the first officer, who was back behind his computer, what this was about. He said "You will find out".

Five minutes later both of my bags reappeared on a cart, and I was ordered (the tone was very curt throughout) to open them and to leave the keys and locks on the counter. They asked (more of a demand than a request) for my "permits" again and I handed them over. Then, without my being able to see what they were doing, they went through both my bags and periodically came back to the computer terminal to type in some information. There was a lot of whispering. They looked at both Valmet barrel sets (which have separate numbers) and entered those numbers into the system. I saw one of them staring at my Contender barrel (which has no number on it) so I told him there was no number on it. The small dark skinned one with the pips asked me whether the firearms were my property. I said "Indeed". He wanted to know the manufacturer's names. I told him (can't these people read?). By now, it was about an hour to departure and I was starting to get nervous. They went through all my personal baggage very thoroughly. They opened my fanny pack and even went through my first aid kit. Then one of them came over and told me to open my carry on. They went through that. Very thoroughly again, checking my customs form from time to time. This took about 30 minutes. The officer with the pips came over and asked me, in a nasty tone, "why did you throw your baggage ticket on the ground". I said I threw nothing on the ground, I had no idea what he was talking about. I asked him to clarify. He said he was told I threw my "baggage ticket" on the ground. I told him the only thing I tried to throw away was some old papers, and that he now had those in his possession.

One of them took my Green Card (they also had my boarding passes and my passport, which is Cdn) and went into an adjacent room where he picked up the phone and called someone while peering at my card.

My stuff was strewn all over the counters. The big wig (the smallish hispanic looking guy) came over and asked me how I got into Zimbabwe with guns. I told him "A lot easier than this". He said they had "concerns" about my bags. I replied that I had concern about missing my flight, esp. since I had been away from home for 3 weeks. Eventually, they came over and told me to pack up. I locked everything and they gave me my passport etc back.

We then went back through TSA, accompanied by three customs officers. The same TSA people as before xrayed my bags again and demanded that I open them for the second time. I thought I was in a Kafka novel. They wanted to see my firearms declaration and were rather firm about it. I opened the gun case and shoved the orange ticket under the nose of the TSA agent, who was an Indian woman. They didn't look at anything else. Finally I closed everything up and put it on the belt for the second time. Only then did the Customs officers from hell apologize for the inconvenience, and then left without any further explanation.

I went back through security. One of the people there recognized me and expressed surprise. Back to the departure lounge just in time to leave.

I am still puzzled as to why, after I went through the entire process with no real incident, each bag having been inspected once at least, they suddenly had second thoughts and treated me like a criminal. I also wonder whether they are allowed to go through my bags out of my sight. And finally, why they needed to make phone calls with my green card in hand, and who they were calling.

The experience was VERY unsettling. Is the US now a police state? I think the answer is, if not, then something very close to it. I was one of those who accepted the patriot act etc in the name of increased security, but it seems that every uniformed goon now thinks they can treat anyone like a suspect. I certainly didn't feel that I was innocent until proven guilty. They did not treat with with any consideration or respect ... quite the opposite. I didn't realize how powerless one is in such a situation. Had I not arrived 3 hours early, I would undoubtedly missed my flight. That would have meant going back into Canada and then leaving the following day, with an expired firearms permit. Based on my earlier encounter with Cdn customs, who made it very clear that would result in "forfeiture", that would have been rather awkward.

I still wonder what this was all about. Anyone have a similar experience?

I had a horrible experience in Atlanta in December 09 while returning from hunting in Spain. This jackass was doing nothing more than harassing us. By the way,my girlfriend was traveling with me. She was at the time, a lawyer for the Federal government . She was not amused . These jackasses found nothing. They delayed us enough that we did miss our flight and had a 6 hour delay.

I just went through customs in Winnipeg Friday. That could not have been any easier.

Sounds like a very difficult time, indeed. If I read it correctly you are a resident alien, a green card holder, coming from Africa with weapons and entering the USA indirectly via Canada using a Canadian passport. That probably put you in the 1 percentile for legitimate travelers and the 99 percentile for illegitimate travelers. I am in no way trying to justify rudeness or abusiveness but you have to look at this in light of the above circumstances. Anything that makes you stand out from the routine traveler is going to get you more attention.

To the credit of the TSA, tossing papers in the trash on your way to a holding area could have potentially been discarding evidence or contraband, ditching false ID, or passing information via a "dead drop". My guess is that things would have gone differently for you if you had entered the USA directly.

I flew airplanes for 39 years. During that period I have entered the US literally hundreds of times.

Never anywhere in visiting over 100 countries and all seven continents have I encountered customs agents as chronically rude as those in US Government uniforms. The females are just as bad as the males, if not worse. About two out of three seem to think they have something to prove. Too much power in the hands of some very small minds. I'd love to see their MMPI scores. I'd bet there are a myriad of psychoses floating around in that bunch, along with some serious narcissistic personality disorders. That's why they're hired.

Had a customs agent hold me in Chicago one time, she opened my gun case and then went over and talked to her co workers for about 30mins, came back over after I missed my flight, handed me my ticket and said "Only police and military should own firearms" and walked off.

Seems customs / border people the world over are the same. Ours are pretty good but you still get the odd one that is beligerant.

Especially when it comes to serial numbers - they never want any help eve though you know it is a bugger to find and tell them where it is, they don't want your help until they can't find it !!!

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My experience wasn't that bad but, felt like I was singled out. Came back through JFK last year and noticed about 6 to 10 other hunters in the customs line. I looked like I was the youngest one in line (41 yrs old). The custom agent circled RIFLE on the form and was taken into the back room to check my serial number. The customs agent looked liked he didn't want to be there and just had a piss poor attitue. Not wanting to give him the upper hand I questioned why I was singled out? Hell... after 22 yrs military with tours to Iraq and Afghanistan I have more than enough grey hair. He basically told me to shut up. I asked him what makes me more likely to break the law than anyone else? It was my first trip to SA and didn't want this prick to spoil my memories. He just left the room without saying anything and I waited for about 15 minutes before he arrived back. His expression didn't change nor did his attitude. He then proceeded to check everything in the rifle case. After finding nothing wrong, I was free to go.

quote:

My guess is that things would have gone differently for you if you had entered the USA directly

I entered the USA directly via ATL. I then went on a round trip to YYZ. There is nothing unusual about a Canadian entering the US from Canada. And tons of Canadians have US residency ie a US Green Card. Furthermore, a terrorist is not going to use a Valmet break action double rifle or a T/C Contender break action single shot. They inspected these guns the first time through. Something, or someone, caused them to pull me out of departures and back through the second time. I would love to know what it was.

These guys and gals (TSA) can do anything they want. We have given them that authority by way of our complacency. And what have we got in return? The illusion of security.

My policy is to smile and offer to help in any way that I can.

I've learned to follow the very same policy. I seem to get out of there alot faster that way. Then I bitch to myself all the way to the connecting gate!

quote:

Originally posted by eyedoc:

My policy is to smile and offer to help in any way that I can.

Absolutely. Seems to be the only way.

My blood pressure rises on the inside but I try to make sure it doesn't show.

Like when they wouldn't allow liquids on board, so I drank the water in the small coke bottle and put it in my back pack.

It had ONE drop in it. They took the bottle out.
When I queried it on the basis it was empty, they said not allowed, I was fuming but let it go.

TSA making policy on the run.

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Welcome to the war on terror. We are all participants.

They would say they have done a good Job too.... not one single plane has been highjacked and blown-up over the USA since 911!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
They would say they have done a good Job too.... not one single plane has been highjacked and blown-up over the USA since 911!!

And that's only because the bomb didn't go off.

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Had a similar experience with Customs in Seattle on my last trip back from Africa. They delayed me because I had 3 guns listed on my 4457 but I only brought one on the trip. Missed 2 connecting flights and caught the 3rd.

Once I accepted this as the normal high quality service from my country it didnt bother me anymore. I suggest everyone do the same.

When I came back from Zim in June and landed in Los Angeles, I was pulled off to the side and taken to a seperate line for Customs.

The agent checked and rechecked my rifle, he asked me if I had ever travelled with this rifle before and I told him that I had taken it to Namibia in 2008. He couldn't figure out why my Wincheter's serial number wasn't in his computer already. They didn't even look in my other bag after I told them that I didn't have any ammunition.

I was still out of there before 90% of the other people on my flight since the rest of the passengers had to wait in line for the two other customs inspection stations.

I am in the Admiral's Club in DFW waiting my last leg home after 2 weeks in the Save Conv. in Zim.
Entered thru Dulles this morning....Totally different experience from my last trips thru Atlanta.....
Customs form was checked "yes' about being in an agricultural area "pasture" etc. Knew boot dip would take a while..... No way, He just waves me through....OK

Got my two guns in a TuffPak and all primed to go thru the 4457 drill.....Got 3 copies stashed in case, baggage, and carry-on to be sure....
Agent number 2 never even looked at it ,waves me through barely looking up, Total process maybe 5 minutes.....
Blew me away....
Re-checked bags to Tx. TSA scanned them in one minute.....
Am I dreaming ?

Paul

Came through US Customs in Winnipeg last week returning to New Mexico. Couldn't have asked for better, professional, nicer folks than was encountered. The Officer made it a point to welcome me back into the US. Absolutely no problems at all. Guess maybe all Customs agents are not the same everywhere?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by mel5141:
I am in the Admiral's Club in DFW waiting my last leg home after 2 weeks in the Save Conv. in Zim.
Entered thru Dulles this morning....Totally different experience from my last trips thru Atlanta.....
Customs form was checked "yes' about being in an agricultural area "pasture" etc. Knew boot dip would take a while..... No way, He just waves me through....OK

Got my two guns in a TuffPak and all primed to go thru the 4457 drill.....Got 3 copies stashed in case, baggage, and carry-on to be sure....
Agent number 2 never even looked at it ,waves me through barely looking up, Total process maybe 5 minutes.....
Blew me away....
Re-checked bags to Tx. TSA scanned them in one minute.....
Am I dreaming ?

Paul

that was pretty much my experience coming back through Dulles from Sa in late June.

Guy asked if I had my 4457 forms said yes showed themt ohim (he didn't check them against the guns. Case went into the big scanner and off I went. total time about 5-7 minutes from start to finish.