I find that most ammo cases are far too large for international travel where we are limited to 5 kilos. Can anyone identify for me a smaller lockable ammo case, something that will hold around 50 to 60 404 Jeffery cartridges?

How about this?




George

George,

I can't tell what the dimensions are from the photo, but it looks small enough to be practical.

I went to the Sentry Safe web site, and this looks like a cash box, but it sure seems heavy. A plastic one of the same size would be nice.

Wink,
I used a PLANO polycarbonate lockable case from "Opticsplanet", mine was
the medium, but they make a small & larger version. You can lock them with
small TSA-type padlocks. I had to take them out of our luggage & check them in
seperately for AirBotswana, they held up fine.

I like them because they're light & waterproof. I will post a link to
them below:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/pl...e-medium-yellow.html

Lots of previous post info to look at. I will be going with the Pelican 1200.

Pelican case, because you may have to ship it as a separate piece of stand-alone luggage and, unlike a lot of stuff recommended on AR, a pelican case will make it through the airline, customs and TSA gorillas intact.

Agreed. I either use the Pelican 1200 or the Pelican 1400, depending on which rifles and rifle calibers I will be traveling with.

Wink, the dimensions were at the link in my post, but they are: Exterior dimensions: 3 1/4"H x 9 27/32"W 7 13/32" D

George

Agree that the Pelican cases work well and have a waterproof seal. Key is to get the right size and a bright color so the baggage people do not leave it in the murk of a compartment or baggage container. The one I found (believe it's the 1120) uses two padlocks on the top front and is bright yellow.I took the foam out and can easily get 5 kg of ammo inside including rifle and some shotgun cartridges....

Regards

I think I'll get a Pelican 1200 and see how it works out. By the way, the 5 kg rule includes the case the ammo is kept in. So, if your case weighs 2.2 kg, then you only get 2.8 kg of ammo. So far I've never had a check-in counter weigh-in on this, but someday it will probably happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I think I'll get a Pelican 1200 and see how it works out. By the way, the 5 kg rule includes the case the ammo is kept in. So, if your case weighs 2.2 kg, then you only get 2.8 kg of ammo. So far I've never had a check-in counter weigh-in on this, but someday it will probably happen.

You are misinterpreting the rules about your 5 Kilograms or 11 lbs of small arms (fixed) sporting ammunition. The weight is total of ammunition and does NOT include the carrying case. It is covered in IATA rules as well as other locations. I have never before heard anyone anywhere claim the shipping container was to be included in the total weight.

You will be pleased with the Pelican case.

pelican 1200 has worked for me

Agree with all those above...the pelican 1200 is a great case.

I have transported ammo in Pelican cases many many times. Most often I have one in the bottom of my Tuffpak, and one in my other checked bag.

I use several different sizes of Pelican cases for all sorts of gear.

I have several of the Micro series cases I use for little things I do not want to get dusty, or wet, or crushed.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I think I'll get a Pelican 1200 and see how it works out. By the way, the 5 kg rule includes the case the ammo is kept in. So, if your case weighs 2.2 kg, then you only get 2.8 kg of ammo. So far I've never had a check-in counter weigh-in on this, but someday it will probably happen.

You are misinterpreting the rules about your 5 Kilograms or 11 lbs of small arms (fixed) sporting ammunition. The weight is total of ammunition and does NOT include the carrying case. It is covered in IATA rules as well as other locations. I have never before heard anyone anywhere claim the shipping container was to be included in the total weight.

You will be pleased with the Pelican case.

Mike,

I don't think I am misinterpreting the weight rule, at least with respect to Air France. See this:

www.gunrunner.cc/air_france_firearms.htm

It is possible that every airline can make its own rules with respect to ammunition weight (as long as it doesn't exceed IATA limits) and I was referring to Air France.

By the way, the IATA regulations state that "securely packaged ammunition...not exceeding 5 kg GROSS WEIGHT." That means the packaging is included in the weight limit, at least in the table provided by this link:

http://www.caa.co.za/resource%...s/DGR52_Table23A.pdf

I would be be glad to receive a copy of a document which says otherwise and proves me wrong; I might be able to use it at an airline check-in counter if there is a discussion about gross versus net ammunition weight.

On my second safari I used a hard plastic case frpm a small saw. It worked very well and already had a place for a lock to attach. I have also used a small metal lockbox that I acched a lock hasp to with rivits. It worked well and allowed me more room for more ammo, it was relatively cheap and very light leaving more weight for the actual ammo.

quote:

I don't think I am misinterpreting the weight rule, at least with respect to Air France. See this:

www.gunrunner.cc/air_france_firearms.htm

It is possible that every airline can make its own rules with respect to ammunition weight (as long as it doesn't exceed IATA limits) and I was referring to Air France.

By the way, the IATA regulations state that "securely packaged ammunition...not exceeding 5 kg GROSS WEIGHT." That means the packaging is included in the weight limit, at least in the table provided by this link:

I dunno...I can interpret this as saying that the weight is for the cartridges and the packaging i.e. fiberboard wooden etc. Not necessarily the lockable box that the ammo goes in, if that were the case, you'd be dinged for the weight of the lock, no? They mention the gross weight is "weight of cartridges + weight of box used to package them," not weight of packaged ammo and lockable container to SHIP them in. In my mind this remains dubious. What they need to do for dummies like me is to put up a picture showing which items have to weigh in at 5kg or under. I know it seems simple, but semantics are a tricky thing and can be interpreted different ways as I just did.

Surely people have had their ammo weighed and been over with a shipping case? What happened then?

There are several words subject to interpretation. What is "securely packaged"? This can apparently vary from one airline to another and I cannot find an IATA definition. One thing is certain, it is not the weight of the ammo alone that counts. The 5 kg limit also includes "secure packaging", and that is the definition which is lacking.

My assumption is that any low level counter employee of an airline is not going to err on the side of a loose interpretation, and the Air France rule is clear, no matter what other airlines decide to impose. Check-in counter personnel aren't paid by IATA and for the most part have probably never even looked at IATA rules. They will do what their heirarchy tells them to do.

If Air France wants to count the locked container as part of the allowable ammunition weight, then I'd find another airline to fly on with rifles and ammo. As to counter personnel interpretations, that is why carrying the regs and asking, politely, to speak with a supervisor is always the recommended course of action.

Having flown with firearms and ammunition internationally, including more than a dozen african safaris, on many different airlines and through many countries, I have NEVER had anyone even suggest what you are saying is a correct interpretation of any airline rules.

A few airlines who DO NOT include the locked container weight to the 5Kg/11# ammunition allowance:
American
Northwest
Delta
Virgin Atlantic
British Air
Air New Zealand
Air Canada
South African

Instead of arguing on an internet forum, why don't you communicate in writing directly with Air France headquarters and ask them for their official interpretation? Then you can post their reply here on AR for everyone to see.

+1. I flew on Air France and I had 11 lbs of ammo, without the lockable box. I don't believe that the weight of the lockable box is part of the weight limitation. The boxes that the ammo is actually packaged in yes, but not the lockable box. Call Shawn at Gracy Travel and ask her; she has booked many a hunter through to Africa using Air France. Unless the regs have now changed, I would say no regarding the lockable box counting in the weight limitation.

I've never had an airline weigh my ammo either, and I hope that continues. But I have perhaps been lucky when travelling with ammo in that I haven't yet had to deal with that special kind of person we sometimes encounter in life, the person who wants to make sure you have a miserable day.

Bright orange Pelican worked great.

Bright orange or bright yellow work very well!

I have had them weigh my locked ammo box on 3 trips including one on Air France. Each time I was told its 11 pounds for lock, box and ammo. I advise everyone to read and copy your airlines rules and keep them with you and follow them. Never blindly follow what you read on any forum.

In three trips to RSA, I have had my ammo weighed by the TSA all three times, and they included the lockable box.

In addition, flying from Joburg to PE, my ammo was weighed AGAIN by SAA for their domestic flight, as well as one flight from Joberg to Durban. They included the weight of the box. BTDT.

quote:

gross weight is "weight of cartridges + weight of box used to package them,"

Get the Air France text in French and translate it yourself.

I got the Pelican 1200 case. How does the pressure release valve work? There is nothing in the flyer which came with the box.

Loosen the PRV after flight to release pressure inside the case and allow the lid to open.

The pressure release valve on my new Pelican 1200 doesn't look like one can "loosen" it.

I have used a MTM box with 50 rounds of ammo,drilled a hole for the lock, never had any problems except at Air France and British Airways
My advice, keep long distance from Air France and British Airways, They fuck you up with both the firearms and the ammo, for overseas travelers try to get connectionflight with South African Airways, Lufthansa or Air Namibia, go as far you can from Chipol airport in the Netherlands.

I go always via Frankfurt and with SAA or Lufthansa

Has anyone tried using the plastic cases you get with most new pistols? I looked at a plastic case from Kimber that held a Pro Eclipse. Without some of the foam I can easily fit six boxes of 300 win mag or 30.06. These cases also have holes for two locks. Seems like a simple and effective solution to a silly rule.
Bill

llamapacker: I have used a Kimber pistol box (and others) numerous times to transport ammo without problems. My favorite box for ammo is the bright orange plastic "ammo can" that you can find at Cabela's, Bass Pro, WalMart, etc. Sometimes they are with the boating gear.

I always fill up any space with other stuff (knife, tools, socks, etc). I have never had a problem. When I have had to weigh it, the airline always tells me to take out everything except my ammo. Once when I was close to weight they just weighed the ammo in the factory box.

Best advice, download the airline's rules, call for an interpretation and arrive at the airport early!

Air Botswana wanted the ammo out of my duffle bag and checked alone.
I was glad it was in a orange Pelican 1200 which held 60 rds of 7x57 and 60 rds of .375. I was a hair over 5kg in the case, but it was not weighed in either Atlanta nor Joberg. My plan was to toss a few rounds out at the airport (or give them to SAPS in Joberg) if I was called on the weight. Coming home through Maun didn't matter because it was empty at that point.

Lesser cases will weigh less, but whatever you use, make sure it can withstand being checked on its own. Godfrey, the driver from African Sky, had a couple of good, expensive stories about running through the airport trying to get a lockable, checkable box for hunters trying to make connections to the rest of Africa yet didn't have their ammo packed 'correctly'.

Being right doesn't really matter since 'the agent is always right' seems to be the rule both here and abroad when flying with firearms and ammo. Heck, just being allowed to fly at all seems to be on the whim of a legion of minimum wage simpletons these days.

Air France is ridiculous, unfriendly, cumbersome and if you are not travelling to CAR/Burkina/Benin should be avoided.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I find that most ammo cases are far too large for international travel where we are limited to 5 kilos. Can anyone identify for me a smaller lockable ammo case, something that will hold around 50 to 60 404 Jeffery cartridges?

I urge you to weigh your ammo. I weighed mine and found that 50 rounds of 416 Rigby (400 grain bullets) weighs around 3.18 kg. That includes the plastic MCM Case-Gard H-50 case. No lock on it but if lock is required by your carrier or nation, it is easy to afix a small hasp and lock to it for under 250 g.