Heading to Zimbabwe in a couple of weeks. We will be flying from San Francisco into Dubai then on to Harare. No travel through South Africa.

Question is we have two separate 4457’s filled out and stamped by customs with a total of four rifles (2 rifles on each 4457 form). We are thinking of leaving one of the four rifles at home.

Would there be any issues not taking all of the rifles listed on our 4457 forms? We already have letters of invitation from the Zimbabwe outfitter listing all four rifles. We also have the paperwork filled out with Emirates Airlines with all four rifles listed.

Anyone have any recent experience with this scenario? Is it just best to just take all 4 rifles? We are using Travel With Guns. Wanted to hear others actual experiences before contacting TWG.

4WD

Just had a similar situation with a client whose back up rifle crapped out the day before he left. He's taking the crapped out rifle with his operational rifle just to avoid anyone anywhere asking "Where is the other rifle?" That could be a can of worms that's completely avoidable. Take the 4th rifle.

Mark

No. Not a problem. I've taken 4457's with numerous items listed that are not on that trip. Never been asked about what is listed on the form that I don't have with me. Just as long as the form has the items you do have with you.

What Todd said are my experiences, too.
Cal

Guys,

The point is that ALL his paperwork says 2 rifles for a each hunter. Too much opportunity for some sharp eyed official to create a problem for 4WD. At this late date I wouldn't risk it unless I could change all the paperwork and I don't think he has time.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

The point is that ALL his paperwork says 2 rifles for a each hunter. Too much opportunity for some sharp eyed official to create a problem for 4WD. At this late date I wouldn't risk it unless I could change all the paperwork and I don't think he has time.

Mark

I didn't pick up on that first time through Mark. Yeah, probably not an issue but who knows. We all know the nature of a minor government official exercising their full limited authority! lol

If it was just the 4457, I'd say no problem but if it's airline pre-approvals, pre-arranged in country permits, etc., that might be a different story.

Todd,

Agreed! A 4457 showing multiple items or rifles in this case is not an issue at all.

Mark

Just for the sake of a comment:

Just last week when I came thru Washington Dulles, the fellow in front of me at US Customs had three rifles on his 4457, yet only had two of them with him.

The Customs agent gave him "grief" as to where was the third rifle? Eventually he let the fellow go, but was not happy.

This same agent then gave me grief because I had laminated my 4457.

He stated that 4457's must NOT be altered in any way, and lamination "alters" them, hence a violation.

Said it was OK to copy the 4457 and laminate it, but the original must not be laminated.

He suggested I put the laminated copy in with the rifles as a precaution, but must keep the original with me.

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
Just for the sake of a comment:

Just last week when I came thru Washington Dulles, the fellow in front of me at US Customs had three rifles on his 4457, yet only had two of them with him.

The Customs agent gave him "grief" as to where was the third rifle? Eventually he let the fellow go, but was not happy.

This same agent then gave me grief because I had laminated my 4457.

He stated that 4457's must NOT be altered in any way, and lamination "alters" them, hence a violation.

Said it was OK to copy the 4457 and laminate it, but the original must not be laminated.

He suggested I put the laminated copy in with the rifles as a precaution, but must keep the original with me.

LOL Terry. See my above comment about a minor government official exercising his full limited authority!! That's a perfect example isn't it.

More than likely, NOTHING would have satisfied that fellow. Should ask him what constitutes an "Original".

There is the two sided form sometimes provided by the Customs' offices that are about 4" square, then there are the "copies" provided by the Customs' offices that are on full sized paper but one sided, then of course you can just print one off the internet, one or two sided, sized to your desire. I'm sure he was talking about the original signature and stamp but easy enough to turn that one back on him.

I've seen various examples of questioning a 4457 but have yet to see anyone denied entry with one that has the actual item properly described on it.

I always take the original and mark an "O" on the upper right corner after I make a copy. A CBP agent suggested that to avoid problems with "those guys" as he put it. He is one of the good guys and hunts. I then make plenty of copies and laminate a set that I keep in the gun case. Also inside my case in a zip lock bag are an extra set of locks with a laminated note asking to replace locks if they needed to be cut.


I just used the Fort Lauderdale CBP office this year for 4457's and flew AA and Qatar to Windhoek and return. No issues and clearing CBP and TSA was a breeze. They liked that I had trigger locks and all rifles in a gun sock as well.


Safe travels.

LL