have an overnite in boston on the way back this year. whats it like with guns in beantown??

Its in kennedyland, its got to be bad! I feel for you.

The biggest problem with MA gun laws is that no one knows the laws. Ask 5 people and you get 6 answers.

I am no expert on Boston; however, if you are in transit and keep them cased you should not have a problem. Some hotels have large Safes for storage, most do not.

All you need to do is make sure they are unloaded and in a locked container. You won't have any trouble.

I'm flying out of Logan next Monday with rifles, no sweat.

Unfortunately, there are risks involved for those who are not licensed residents of Massachusetts, especially where air travel is concerned.

Federal laws permitting interstate travel with firearms are a defense against restrictive state and local laws, but only under certain circumstances.

And even when they clearly apply, they are merely a defense. A defense is no guarantee that one will not be arrested and charged with violating state or local laws in the first instance.

It often amazes me, although it shouldn't, how ignorant state and local law enforcement personnel are when it comes to federal, state and local firearms laws. In their defense, such laws are often vague and indeterminate, not to say indecipherable, even for a lawyer.

And firearms laws in Massachusetts, and Boston in particular, are a nightmare of ambiguity and complexity. Even the federal law is vague when it comes to the question of overnighting in a hotel during transit.

Here is a link to the NRA site that provides information on this question.

Guide To The Interstate Transportation of Firearms

If I were a non-resident of Massachusetts, I would not worry about transiting Boston Logan with a rifle in checked-through luggage. I would also not worry about transiting the commonwealth by automobile with rifles in locked cases in the trunk of my car.

But if I were a non-resident, I would not risk taking my firearms with me from the airport into Boston for an overnight stay, and then back to the airport for my connecting flight the next day. That is a damned shame, but it is the truth.

If I were you, I would change my flight plans.

As a licensed resident, I don't have any problems. I frequently fly out of Boston Logan with firearms in my checked luggage.

But under the circumstances you describe, the opportunities for overzealous law enforcement to make a non-resident's life miserable are manifold.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Unfortunately, there are risks involved for those who are not licensed residents of Massachusetts, especially where air travel is concerned.

Federal laws permitting interstate travel with firearms are a defense against restrictive state and local laws, but only under certain circumstances.

And even when they clearly apply, they are merely a defense. A defense is no guarantee that one will not be arrested and charged with violating state or local laws in the first instance.

It often amazes me, although it shouldn't, how ignorant state and local law enforcement personnel are when it comes to federal, state and local firearms laws. In their defense, such laws are often vague and indeterminate, not to say indecipherable, even for a lawyer.

And firearms laws in Massachusetts, and Boston in particular, are a nightmare of ambiguity and complexity. Even the federal law is vague when it comes to the question of overnighting in a hotel during transit.

Here is a link to the NRA site that provides information on this question.

Guide To The Interstate Transportation of Firearms

If I were a non-resident of Massachusetts, I would not worry about transiting Boston Logan with a rifle in checked-through luggage. I would also not worry about transiting the commonwealth by automobile with rifles in locked cases in the trunk of my car.

But if I were a non-resident, I would not risk taking my firearms with me from the airport into Boston for an overnight stay, and then back to the airport for my connecting flight the next day. That is a damned shame, but it is the truth.

If I were you, I would change my flight plans.

As a licensed resident, I don't have any problems. I frequently fly out of Boston Logan with firearms in my checked luggage.

But under the circumstances you describe, the opportunities for overzealous law enforcement to make a non-resident's life miserable are manifold.

Personally I think posts like this don't help anyone. I have not heard, not had anybody produce one person, not one who has ever had a problem.

You know how many times I have been asked for my firearms license while flying even with pistols? Zero. You know how many times I have been asked for a FID card while hunting? Zero, and yes I have been checked by the environmental police for hunting licenses.

The laws are written vaguely on purpose so they can arrest those doing wrong and let the legal owners pass without problems.

So far to date the toughest airport I have flown through with firearms was Tulsa OK, go figure.

This past summer the Smith and Wesson Collectors Assoc. did it's annual show in Mass with no problems what so ever and had even contacted the State Police. They have had the show in Mass every 5 years for decades with no problems and that includes people flying and driving in with guns.

Shooters come up to the S&W shooting center all the time from all over the country with handguns with no issue.

No benefit to fear mongering here.

quote:

If I were a non-resident of Massachusetts, I would not worry about transiting Boston Logan with a rifle in checked-through luggage. I would also not worry about transiting the commonwealth by automobile with rifles in locked cases in the trunk of my car.

In Massachusetts the trunk is considered the locked container so you can have guns in soft unlocked cases in the trunk you are fine. In an SUV or pickup you would need a locked case since there is not trunk to act as the container.

On a side note trigger locks are OK for home storage but not transporting. The law saws "locked container" of which the trunk is one and can even be a soft case with a lock on it. The law does not state that it needs to be a hard case, just locked and a container.

butchloc, be sure to PM GeoffM24 if you have any problems. You may want to ask him ahead of time if he will front bail money.

Sure, things may go well. But they may not. And if and when they go wrong, they will really go wrong.

Just a couple of weeks ago, a US Marine transiting Logan on his way from Las Vegas to Charlotte, NC was arrested for having a pistol, ammunition and "infernal machines" and "bomb making equipment" in his checked luggage.

The latter were a couple of model rocket engines and some military fuses and electronics gear (I understand that he worked on those things as part of his job in the military). Now, he obviously shouldn't have tried to bring those onto an airplane.

But it is absolutely clear that they would have arrested him for the pistol and ammo alone. Even though there was nothing illegal about them. Google the key words and you will see the distortions and the details of the arrest and the $50,000 bail. The poor guy was actually charged with possession of a concealed weapon, even though he had declared the pistol and ammunition at check-in in Las Vegas, the pistol was unloaded and in a locked case and it and the ammunition were in his checked luggage!

Just a few weeks earlier than this airport incident, some poor slob (a Rhode Island resident, apparently) was driving through Massachusetts on a trip from Rhode Island to Maine. He had rifles, shotguns and ammuntion and some knives and miscellaneous but pretty innocuous related stuff in his truck. A state trooper pulled him over and arrested him on a boatload of charges. He may beat the rap, but at what cost and headache?

But I am just "fear mongering."

And by the way, I have been asked to present my Massachusetts firearms license at the airline check-in desk and upon opening my gun cases by TSA. I have also been asked to present my license when obtaining a Form 4457 from U.S. Customs. I have also been asked to present my license when clearing customs with firearms after arrival on international and domestic flights.

All at Logan International Airport in Boston.

Geoff24, generalizing and giving advice to a non-resident based on your very limited experience and knowledge as a resident is potentially very dangerous - not to you, of course, but certainly to the non-resident.

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

The laws are written vaguely on purpose so they can arrest those doing wrong and let the legal owners pass without problems.

S

Yeah, the Federal gov NEVER hassles innocent, law abiding taxpayers.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
butchloc, be sure to PM GeoffM24 if you have any problems. You may want to ask him ahead of time if he will front bail money.

Sure, things may go well. But they may not. And if and when they go wrong, they will really go wrong.

Just a couple of weeks ago, a US Marine transiting Logan on his way from Las Vegas to Charlotte, NC was arrested for having a pistol, ammunition and "infernal machines" and "bomb making equipment" in his checked luggage.

The latter were a couple of model rocket engines and some military fuses and electronics gear (I understand that he worked on those things as part of his job in the military). Now, he obviously shouldn't have tried to bring those onto an airplane.

But it is absolutely clear that they would have arrested him for the pistol and ammo alone. Even though there was nothing illegal about them. Google the key words and you will see the distortions and the details of the arrest and the $50,000 bail. The poor guy was actually charged with possession of a concealed weapon, even though he had declared the pistol and ammunition at check-in in Las Vegas, the pistol was unloaded and in a locked case and it and the ammunition were in his checked luggage!

Just a few weeks earlier than this airport incident, some poor slob (a Rhode Island resident, apparently) was driving through Massachusetts on a trip from Rhode Island to Maine. He had rifles, shotguns and ammuntion and some knives and miscellaneous but pretty innocuous related stuff in his truck. A state trooper pulled him over and arrested him on a boatload of charges. He may beat the rap, but at what cost and headache?

But I am just "fear mongering."

And by the way, I have been asked to present my Massachusetts firearms license at the airline check-in desk and upon opening my gun cases by TSA. I have also been asked to present my license when obtaining a Form 4457 from U.S. Customs. I have also been asked to present my license when clearing customs with firearms after arrival on international and domestic flights.

All at Logan International Airport in Boston.

Geoff24, generalizing and giving advice to a non-resident based on your very limited experience and knowledge as a resident is potentially very dangerous - not to you, of course, but certainly to the non-resident.

Lets take a look at your examples.

We said that you were fine with an unloaded firearm in a locked container right? The Marine got on the plane with a loaded magazine, this is NOT an unloaded firearm to any TSA in any airport. Also "a hand grenade fuse assembly with detonator" are hardly just military fuses.

Lets look at example number 2, truck says it all. As I pointed out in my post it they need to be in a locked container. Since a truck does not have a trunk you can bet this guy had them in the cab not locked in a container.

This is like saying Mass has really tough drunk driving laws and citing a guy who got arrested while driving with a beer in his hand as proof!

Locked container and unloaded.

And for limited experience, lets just say I have a couple friends that have gold badges that say FAA on them and I get to ask them excatly what a TSA can and can not do.

Geoff24M, you are mistaken. The marine did not get on the plane with a loaded magazine.

There was a loaded magazine in his checked luggage. Not in the pistol. The pistol was in a locked case. Also in his checked luggage. That is perfectly legal. It even complies with TSA and airline regulations, assuming that the magazine was in some sort of carrier with a button down flap on it.

If it was not in such a carrier, it was still not illegal. It would simply not be in conformance with TSA and airline regulations. The solution and recourse in such a case is not to arrest the traveler. It is to remove his magazine and ammo from his luggage.

But they arrested him and charged him with carrying a concealed weapon!

And the point is not that he had model rocket engines or the fuse in his luggage. The point is that he clearly would have been arrested if he had only been in possession of the pistol and ammunition - which were themselves perfectly legal for him to possess.

As for the truck, the stuff was not in the cab. It was locked in the bed under a cap. He broke no laws but was arrested anyway.

These are not the only cases I could have cited. They are merely the most recent.

Your faith in law enforcement and their beneficence toward gun owners in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is utterly naive and misplaced.

THE CLEARLY ESTABLISHED POLICY IN THE COMMONWEALTH, IN ANY CASE INVOLVING THE SLIGHTEST AMBIGUITY WHERE NON-RESIDENTS AND FIREARMS ARE CONCERNED, IS NOT TO BE NICE TO THEM. IT IS TO ARREST THEM, BOOK THEM AND SET A HIGH BAIL.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad that you have friends with gold badges to whom you can ask questions. What I am trying to do is ensure that butchloc does not interact with any of them at Logan International Airport.

But if he does not change his flight plans and runs into trouble, you'll be there for him in his hour of need, right? You'll show up, talk to your friends with gold badges, and make sure butchloc has no unscheduled detours to the State Police barracks at Logan, or to Boston Municipal Court, right?

There is no way I would fly through and overnight in Boston if I were butchloc. There are too many other, far less risky places, for anyone flying with firearms to transit. That is the sad and unfortunate truth.

butchloc, you will obviously have to make up your own mind on this one. But you asked, and you have received my advice. Avoid Boston.

In Massachusetts, per my Class A instructor many years ago, the magazine is part of the pistol and if the magazine is loaded the gun is loaded. He actually suggested a revolver with a speed loader because the speedloader is not part of the firearm.

No one is saying the police are perfect, what I am saying is that this shit happens everywhere and is not a Logan specific thing.

It is impossible to create a system where there are no errors in arrests. What we do have here in the US is a system of checks and balances to get to the truth. There will always be errors.

As for the charges, that is common practice everywhere. Police always throw out every charge they can think of and work it done in plea bargains.

My guess is if that Marine never had those fuses and other items used in explosive devices he never would have been arrested and we never would have heard a word about it.

Butch,

If you are dealing with Gracy, they will spell it out in detail and send you copies of the pertaining rules. They explained to me in microscopic detail about what I could and could not do with guns in NYC, which is about as bad a place as they get.

Ask me about the "incident at JFK" the next time I see you...

Anyhow, Gracy gives you the straight info and copies of the rules, too bad they wait so close to when you leave to send it. I suspect as long as you are there less than 24H its ok, but let Shawn know.

In 04 going through JFK, our ammo was locked in the tuffpaks. When the nice officer said that was not acceptable, "it has to be in a separate pice of checked baggage". We pleasently chatted about all of rules that allowed otherwise he told me"you are in my city, I make the rules".

Message recieved loud and clear. All of our baggage had already disapeared down that black hole.
We used our daughters carryon to checked all of the ammo, did not expect to see it again.

The bottom line is to use Gracy or Kathi and do exactly what they say.

Dulcinea

I can't forsee any issues. I've had folks stay with me en route to Africa and Europe with firearms, and it was a non-issue. Get them, get their luggage and waltz out. Get them back to Logan, unload 'em all (the gear and people, that is) and tell them good luck, and good hunting. Methinks this is kind of much ado about nothing.

OP, are you staying in a hotel? If you'd like, I could probably help. I work 5 minutes from Logan (downtown Boston), and have a buddy who works at the Hyatt at the AP as well. If it helps, one of us could hold onto your rifle(s) until you need them to get checked in, if you're worried about bringing them with yuo out of the AP. Both of us have class A cc licenses, and wouldn't be a big deal. Anyway, if interested, that's an option for you.

KG


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Title 18 USC § 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

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