Les,

The trouble with you colonials is that you somehow managed to get your hands on coffee..... If you'd learned to appreciate tea, you'd probably still be civilised.

More seriously, if you're flying SAA internally, your bigger concern should be whether the aircraft type you're booked on is permitted to carry firearms and ammo (aircraft that permit access from the cabin to hold whilst the aircraft is in flight are not permitted to carry firearms and ammo etc) and whether the domestic airports you're flying into and out of have staff that are licenced to handle firearms.

If you need help with that research, feel free to PM me with your flight details and I'll look it up for you.

My recent experience:

4/14/09 : Dulles to Johannesburg to East London - Ammo in Hardigg Storm case with TSA locks inside checked Hardigg Storm Case luggage - No issues or questions at IAD by TSA, No questions or issues at OR Tambo in Johannesburg with SAPS or SAA baggage, No questions or issues with SAPS in East London.

4/23/09 : Packed the same way! Asked to remove ammo by SAA agent. Glad I bought the small Hardigg case for my ammo. Balance of travel was issue free. Friends used Metal cash box type containers and they made it through just fine but I suspect that with any adverse handling it would have been an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by hairbol:
... Asked to remove ammo by SAA agent...

I am fairly certain that I will not be bringing any ammo back with me! If I don't shoot it up on trophy hunting, the vervets, baboons, jackals,and warthogs are in for a hot time!

Les

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Les,

The trouble with you colonials is that you somehow managed to get your hands on coffee..... If you'd learned to appreciate tea, you'd probably still be civilised.

More seriously, if you're flying SAA internally, your bigger concern should be whether the aircraft type you're booked on is permitted to carry firearms and ammo...

Steve,

I'm not sure about your Tea/Coffee theory. My hunting partner is a regular tea drinker, and he is not the least civilised!

We should be OK on the flights in RSA, just into and out of Port Elizabeth on the last flight in and the noon flight out.

Thanks for the offer.

Les

Les,

Go ask the question on the European Forum and I am sure you'll find others who've had to comply...One of the European airlines at Heathrow even kept a stock of small hardsided briefcases they would sell to travllers so they could meet the requirements..

Last time I went to RSA I went with Virgin & BA...I arrived at Manchester thinking I had everything squared away but the check-in staff still managed to through me a curve ball...

The rifle and case was OK, and I assumed there would be no trouble with my ammo as it was in small metal cash box within my soft duffle...

But no, the girl double checks the rules and reads that the ammo has to be in a "hard case" and she interprets it to mean the type of luggage not the actual ammo box! So she then refuses to check my duffle in, saying the regulations require a hardsided case like a Samsonite!

Things got a little fraught for a several minutes as we "discussed" the issue, but she eventually concided and allowed my duffle through...

What I was never able to tie down was what they actually meant by a "hard case"..In the weeks before my flight I was told different things by different airline employees...Some said plastic was ok, others said it had to be metal, yet others said it didn't matter as long as it was "secure" meaning a cheap plastic tool box wasn't ok, but something like a locking Pelican case would be fine...

Considering the ammo goes into your normal checked luggage, regadless of the type of locking box used, there is still zero security..

Regards,

Peter

Which just goes to show that the requirement isn't new and isn't restricted to SAA.

Added: Which in turn means the SCI letter was very badly researched and ridiculously inaccurate.

Now there's a suprise!

WAITER, please bring our two 'experts' Mr Lionhunter & Mr RGC a large pair of donkey's ears each please. EEEE - OORRRR EEEE-OORRR!!



Don't worry guys, I'm only taking the piss and I promise I won't hold it against you that despite all your insults, deliberate misquotes and post edits, I was right and you were wrong!!

Les,

I'm going from memory but I think that route is served by 737s. Assuming I'm right, they'll be able to carry firearms but it might still be advisable to check that PE has staff that are licenced to handle the firearms from the aircraft to the terminal. As silly as that sounds, the new(ish) act now means that if they don't have the correctly licenced staff on duty, they won't let your firearms travel.

Les,

You said that you had checked with various airlines and couldn't find anything about the hard case requirement..

Take a look at Virgin Atlantic: Firearms & Ammo

In the section on Ammo, it mentions the hard case requirement, but as I said earlier it doesn't actualy define what it means..

When I was looking into booking a flight, quite a few had similar requirements, but sometimes you had to call the company and actually ask the question before you got a straight answer..

Regards,

Peter

It was certainly a requirement with BA in February 2001...........

Pete

Thank you, it never occured to me to check Virgin. Seems like they tried to, or did , ban firearms entirely at one point. So I wrote them off!

They do appear to offer decent service to JNB though, but for that pesky "hard case" - so I guess packing everything in an antique Samsonite suitcase would satify them? Curious.

Les

Les,

As i said, I was eventually allowed on with the locked ammo box packed in my soft duffle, but if you have a samsonite and it doesn't weigh to much, using that wouldn't hurt..

Another thing to check is the firearms policy of the feeder/partner airline you'll be using within the USA. Steve has mentioned potential problems with internal RSA flights, but the same can happen in the US as well.

I remember reading an account by one hunter who had a lot of hassle because although the main airline he had booked with were ok with firearms, their partner/feeder with in the US was not and refused to carry his rifle...

He actually had to travel on another airline for the internal US flight and then on his return had a long and protracted battle to claim for his tickets..

Regards,

Peter

FWIW, some airlines requirement is for a metal container rather than a hard container. Nowadays, I use an old beaten up aluminium, neoprene lined camera case. It meets their criteria, is as light as a feather and is strong enough to give a degree of protection against damage. It's also large enough to take a few other odds and ends if necessary.

It would be nice if somehow we could get all the airlines to have just one policy on how to transport firearms and ammo. It gets difficult to keep up with all of them and if changing airlines, you may have to move where and how your ammo is being transported. Some airlines say ammo locked in with firearm, others say no has to be in other checked baggage and others still say ammo will be a seperate checked bag from all other baggage.

Just one policy, no matter what it ends up being, would really simplify things. To get this accomplished it would take all parties that have an interest to get involved.

Pre the 9/11 era they did have a joint policy. It was called the 'Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act. The name if the individual country was then inserted into the title, but that got changed very quickly after 9/11.... and one of the largest offenders are the US Govt because they allowed other Govt bodies and their dogs to interfere. They also issued Presidential orders/decrees that further clouded the issue. Once that happened, other countries jumped on the bandwagon.

What makes it even worse, is that the vast majority of check in agents don't know the rules either.

As with many things, it ain't gonna get better so probably the best thing to do is download a copy of the rules for the airlines you'll be trvelling with, comply with those rules and take the rules with you when you travel.

I guess it really sucks when politicians get involved, they screw everything up.