If you book your air tickets with Steve Turner and Travel with Guns (TWG), they are taking care of all of this mess for you as part of their great service. I was sent an email from TWG with some instructions on filling out a form, it took me a total of 6 minutes, and I sent it back to TWG. Within 10 minutes, I received a response with an ITN and confirmation form the gov't that all was in order for my upcoming trip. As if Steve's service wasn't already great, this makes using him for international flights a no brainer!!!

Did you have to get an EIN from IRS, or did Steve take care of that part as well?

That is commendable that Steve is taking care of it, however we as hunters and firearms owners need to do our part to voice our concern with our "politicians". Take a minute and write your political representation and voice your concerns.

http://www.contactingthecongre...ite=ctc2011&state=co

Here is a link to write your politicians in Colorado. It only takes minutes to look up your state and write them to voice your dissatisfaction about this issue.
If we do nothing we eventually lose everything not just for us but for our children.
If you like I can post a letter I used all you need to do is change the names to suit your state.

I want to second what Tim said about Steve Turner: he and TWG provided great service. After I obtained an EIN from IRS (following his instructions), I sent that information to him, as well as other information he requested, and within a few hours TWG sent me my ITN for the trip. Almost painless, but now I wonder if I'll get a future communication from the IRS asking me how my "business" is doing!!

Dave

Yes I had to get an EIN, but Steve's instructions and links walked me through it in about 3 minutes.

That's great news Tim.

Tim:

So you have no worries about getting yourself in a jam with the IRS? IRS EIN Pub Info Read directly under the first paragraph heading in red.

Are you also planning on filling a 1040c with your taxes next year specifically against your new EIN as required and if you don't file a 1040c are you willing to get sideways with the IRS for not filling one.

You don't have any problem with the entering your personally owned firearms into a Federally maintained database that also gives your name and address?

Did TWG provide you with any promise/guarantee that they have keyed your info in correctly just in case something is not right and your firearms possibly get confiscated on the way back in, or worse.

While I agree this can be done and done by individuals as well as third parties, the above questions and possible implications have not been "officially" answered by the IRS, ICE or US Census Bureau who maintains/shares the database among all other Federal agencies.

I'd contacted Steve and figured he'd solve the problem as he always does. Next step, I think I'll take everything I might ever use to Customs and get the 4457's all at once. If we all did that, it might overburden the system enough to make them re-think the whole process.

Crap! If the IRS wants me to file another form with my tax return that shows no income, I'm ok with that. Can I show my expenses too? Hobby rule would prevent me from taking the deductions, but we can do that if the IRS wants me go. I suspect they don't. Maybe I'll decide to be an "author" and deduct the expenses. Think that would fly? They are the ones who made me file the forms.

I am not happy about any of it, but I am going to travel internationally to hunt, so as of right now, I have to do this. I will talk to my accountant but I guess he can file a 1040c and claim $0 income.

Gotta love the crowd that wants to come in and point out all the problems, issues and concerns with something while at the same time not offering any practical alternative or solution. I thought that was what wife's were for. Kudos to Steve Turner for coming up with a "making lemonade out of lemons" solution to this problem particularly for folks that are facing imminent trips.

Tim:

Like you, I am fully in this conundrum. I will continue to hunt and Internationally as well as long as it is legal and under legal methods. If I decide to take personal firearms then I will also be FORCED to comply and that is the major problem with this.

If you read the actual link to the IRS pub I posted above, it pretty much says getting an EIN for a purpose other than tax related is not what an IRS issued EIN is for. When a called and talked to an actual IRS agent a couple of weeks ago, the best answer I could get as repeated being referred to that IRS Pub. So, part of my conundrum is one Federal agency (DHS/ICE) is REQUIREING us to potentially violate the rules/laws of another Federal agency (IRS) without any regard to the potential risk/jeopardy we are being put in.

I believe my concern with this is somewhat justified buy recent events, i.e. Louis Lerner and the IRS targeting Conservative/Republican PACs and their founders. Not only did the IRS selectively target them, it was expanded to ICE and BATF – just read about the “True the Vote” founder as just one example. Add to that “Operation Choke Point” when in the Feds put pressure on banks to cut off/close the bank accounts of firearm related businesses. We’ve also heard reports of anti hunting/anti firearm C&BP agents at a couple of ports of entry airports hassling returning sportsmen. I don’t find it out of the realm of logic for there to be a reasonable possibility of another “rogue” IRS agent (s) “cracking down” on people getting EIN’s for the non tax reporting purpose of taking “evil” firearms out the us to kill innocent animals for sport/fun. Is this a stretch of imagination? Maybe or maybe not if you look at current events as a possible indicator.

The other point I was trying to make is that if someone already goes through the process of getting an EIN and knows or has intentions of multiple non-US hunting trips, why not just create an AESDirect account and enter your own info – for free. You also have the advantage of being able to actually SEE what is being entered and/or modify it (change firearms if one breaks right before departure) up to eight hours before you go.

As a last thought on the 1040c filling requirement, how many people may even be aware of this possible conflicting information – DHS/ICE/US Census saying an EIN is required and the IRS publication indicating it might not be an authorized use, and the 1040c reporting requirement. Most people don’t have accountants to do this for them, even IF they understand the problem. They are just trying to comply with one Federal agency requirement and inadvertently putting themselves in possible violation of another.

Tim, you are in a very unique position that most of us don’t and will possibly never have – a media presence. I fully understand that we (legal firearms owners/hunters) are being coerced/forced to enter our legally owned firearms into a federally controlled database to engage in a legal activity in compliance with the foreign countries laws. I hope you will or are using your unique position to bring as much pressure as you can on the political leadership you can by personal contact and via your media contacts to get this STOPPED.

Mjines:

Sir, I have offered several solutions to this and offered them up to every Congressman, Senator, C&BP and AESDirect person I’ve talked to or emailed.

Stop it completely. It is a solution to non-existent or extremely insignificant “problem”. That being a few hunting rifles being left behind/transferred/sold/gifted and not coming back to the US.

IF the FEDs are so concerned about bringing hunting rifles back than here are two possible solutions I’ve offered up.

1. A one page paper form that can be downloaded on-line just like the 4457. The hunter fills out the form with their name, address, firearm info (make, model, serial number, caliber) the departure flight info and return flight info and passport number.

The traveler/hunter takes this form, firearms, passport and airline ticket to the nearest C&PB office. They confirm all the info and put their stamp on the form, make a copy if they want. You can make copies of this form, put a copy in your rifle case, keep a copy on you etc. When you depart the US, you “show your papers” (with a German accent) to whoever wants to see them. Same coming back, just like we’ve done with 4457 for years.

This wound not be dependent on having a computer terminal connected to the "database" either on the departure or return airline terminal and for those starting there departure from a small regional airport without a permanent C&BP presence having to have an extra layover at a port of entry airport for departure.

2. Second option offered up if “they” insist on an electronic database via AESDirect is a simple modification of the web site application to allow the use of a passport number to open an account. Any account opened with a PP is restricted to/for use of obtaining the temp export exemption. The form entry fields are limited to only the number of firearms per traveler allowed and only data fields for firearm make, mod, serial number etc.

The passport is already required for overseas travel. It is required for departure and reentry to the US and is only valid for 10-years. Once your PP expires the data in the database is automatically wiped based on the expiration date of your PP when you created your AES account.

So, to address your question, at least one person who is complaining IS offering up possible solutions and not just to sympathetic readers on this site.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
I am not happy about any of it, but I am going to travel internationally to hunt, so as of right now, I have to do this. ...

Unfortunately Tim, you are right. The government has us "between a rock and a hard spot." This is just another of one of Comrade Obongo's "half-baked" attempts at gun control. And, it won't stop as long as he "has a pen and a cell phone" or occupies that nice big office at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington. I believe all of the "unintended consequences" of this regulation are, in fact, intended: to create excessive burdens on law-abiding citizens who wish to exercise and enjoy their 2nd. Amendment Rights.

It is interesting to note that the response of Americans to Obongo's attempts at gun control has been ... to buy more guns! See:

http://www.washingtontimes.com...-firearms-in/?page=2

Those solutions may be great, but they hardly help the poor fellow leaving in three weeks on a trip he has been planning for two years . . . Turner's solution will. That was my point.

Mjines:

Fully concur. Because of the nature of the rather quiet way this was slipped into the original regulations a few years ago and then not "implemented" until now and on very short notice can't help but lead me to believe there was more behind this entire issue.

Yes, I concur that in the near term the only viable solution to this is Congressional pressure to STOP it.

In the very near term, yes, we are screwed if we do and screwed if we don't. Make no mistake, we are leaving for our annual hunt at the end of June. I am fortunate enough to have a little more time and live close to a C&BP office who so far seems at least a little sympathetic to this problem.

My current coarse of action is to: a) Keep calling, emailing every Congressman, Senator I can. In fact I am still hoping to get a face to face with my Rep this week while he is in the district. I've had several email and telephone exchanges with several of his senior staffers. b) I intend to do everything I can to have the local C&BP office enter our info for us as Frostbit was able to do and apparently Boddington's daughter just successfully did and posted a video about it on her FB page. c) The last week before our departure if our local C&BP office ends up refusing to enter our info and provide ITN's the I will comply with the current requirements.

I did find it interesting that if you go to the IRS web site to get an EIN, there is a difference in the options available on the web site application and the Form SS-4 paper application SS-4 Instructions. Form SS-4

If you look at the form under block 9a there is an option for "Other" and block 16 "Other" and block 17 to describe the nature of your business. Those options don't exist in the on-line application. The next little jewel is if you fill out the paper form you have the option of calling the info in and getting your EIN on the spot over the phone.

I haven't called the number yet to confirm this, mostly due to the proximity of the annual filling deadline, but plan on calling at the end of next week.

IF the paper form called in is viable and I end up having to get an EIN and creating an account in AESDirect, I plan on using the paper form and in block 9a, 16 I intend to write-in and tell the IRS agent on the phone that he sole purpose of this EIN is to comply with HDS/ICE/C&BP non tax reporting mandatory requirements and block 17 - Solely for compliance with DHS/ICE mandatory non commercial AESDirct account.

My logic, if this works is, that IF I have to get an EIN at least I will be telling the truth on the form and IF the IRS ever comes knocking on my door, I have told them on the front side exactly why. Side note would be on the odd chance the IRS gets wind of this and they don't like it maybe pitting one federal agency against another might be worth the price of admission.

I have just booked my first trip with Steve Turner because of this issue.

Gentlemen, I am president of a CPA firm. The EIN business doesn't bother me in the least.

Larry:

In your capacity, can you provide any specific IRS regs (links), beyond what a regular Joe can find on the web, regarding the IRS's acceptable use of EIN's for non-tax reporting issues and the connection to filling a 1040c if you have an EIN, even if you have zero business activity associated with that EIN.

As you indicate, maybe this EIN is not a big deal, BUT it would be nice to have some kind of document(s) that we can lay our hands on to back ourselves up just in case a rouge IRS agent with an agenda comes knocking.

When I did the online application- there were two places Steve had me choose "other" and on the explanation they had me write in "to fulfill Federal requirements" .

Tim could you say which those were? ^^^

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
I am not happy about any of it, but I am going to travel internationally to hunt, so as of right now, I have to do this. I will talk to my accountant but I guess he can file a 1040c and claim $0 income.

I don't like it either. But at the moment not so different from tons of other bureaucratic bull, I (we) have to do it. Or stay at home . Or have bigger problems.

I completely agree that Steve at Travel with Guns is offering a great solution however I feel it is everyone's duty to put pressure on your politico's to have this overturned, modified, amended, rescinded or what have you. To just play the game by submitting to a solution only gets us further down the road and lets "them" know that whatever "they" do to us we will quietly accept as sheep and fall in line.
I am hammering my political representation trying to get them to listen, I suggest we all do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom: ... I feel it is everyone's duty to put pressure on your politico's to have this overturned, modified, amended, rescinded or what have you. To just play the game by submitting to a solution only gets us further down the road and lets "them" know that whatever "they" do to us we will quietly accept as sheep and fall in line. I am hammering my political representation trying to get them to listen, I suggest we all do it.

Excellent suggestion ... but ... as I understand it, the genesis of this regulation is an Executive Order (I believe Frostbit actually found the Order and posted a link to it). Assuming that is the case, when you think about it, there really is not a lot that the legislative branch of our government has done recently to counter-act or over-turn an Executive Order. Short of denying funding or passing specific legislation (none of which hasn't happened in response to Comrade Obongo's other lawless and unconstitutional acts), I would be really surprised if our elected representatives were able to do anything in response to this. (And, I would be very happy to be proven wrong.) So, where does that leave us? The only way to halt, suspend or undo the regulation would be a lawsuit in Federal Court that seeks a temporary restraining order, preliminary injunction, and a declaration that the regulation, as written and/or implemented is unconstitutional. I am not saying that couldn't happen. That exact type of lawsuit (and the temporary restraining order) is being played out at this very moment in response to Obongo's "Executive Amnesty Order." However, it takes big $$$ to take on the government. It is something that the NRA/DSC/SCI could probably afford to do, but not us peons.

Okay let's just give up then and roll over and pee on ourselves....
Showing submission to the great and powerful.

Okay sorry that was harsh, I am frustrated with this whole regime but not frustrated enough to give up.
I still recommend we voice our opinions loudly to our elected politicians, otherwise they think we are happy with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
... I am frustrated with this whole regime but not frustrated enough to give up. I still recommend we voice our opinions loudly to our elected politicians, otherwise they think we are happy with it.

I agree 100% with your sentiments! We shouldn't give up. But, "a rotten fish begins to stink from the head." Unless we get lucky and either Congress (fat chance) or a Federal Judge does something, my best guess is that nothing will happen unless and until there is real change in Washington. And, again, I would be very, very happy to be proven wrong.

Tim:

Reference filling out “Other” on the IRS on-line EIN application compared to paper SS-4 in the link above.

In the paper version, the first “Other” in when you are selecting the “Type of Entity”. In the on-line version, you don’t have the option of “Other” and per TWG instructions, you have to select “Sole Proprietor” which in reality you are NOT setting up a business entity of any kind. The paper form seems to indicate it is possible to select a different “entity” not available in the “on-line” version. The paper form has two additional places to enter “Other” information or specific description.

I honestly don't remember what those sections were where I picked "other" - just went by Steve's instructions. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Just posted the results of this afternoons telephone conversation with the IRS over the other forum.

A couple of days ago I said I was going to wait until after Apr 15 to call the IRS again and ask more questions on the EIN issue. Decided this was too important for other to wait until next week so, I spent a little over 3 hours on various forms of “hold” until I got to an agent (Mr. Davis) who specialized in EINs. He was actually VERY helpful, I say again VERY helpful.

I gave him all the background on the new ICE requirement, guided him to the AESDirct website and the EIN requirement. Completely explained the requirement and that this was only and strictly for compliance with the ICE requirement to obtain and temp export exception permit and there is zero, none, no, nada business or IRS tax related component tied to this EIN requirement.

I asked him to open a copy of the IRS SS-4 Paper EIN Application Form and the IRS on-line EIN web site. I explained to him the disconnect between the “Entity” options on the on-line application vs the SS-4. Specifically, the on-line application only limits you to actual “business” organizations, including “Sole Proprietorship”, while the SS-4 in block 10 gives the optional “Entity” of “Other” with space to describe/explain. He picked up the disconnect right away when I repeated that we, sportsmen” are only getting an EIN to comply with another Federal agency (non-SS number) identification number and there are no IRS tax related connections to this requirement. Spent a lot of time going over this from different angles to make as sure as possible he understood that this was for obtaining a temp export permit for firearms.

His recommendation was to fill out and fax in the SS-4 paper form. Under Block 9a, check “Other” and put, “For Other Federal Agency ID Only”.

In Block 10, put something to the effect of, “For Compliance With DHS/ICE Required AESDirect Account Application Identification Only”

In Block 17, put something to the effect of, “Not For Commercial or Business Use. For Personal Use Only in Compliance with DHS/ICE Mandatory Identification Use Only”

He said to fill the SS-4 out and fax it in. The IRS will fax the EIN back to the fax number listed on the form next to your signature within 4 business days. He said to be sure to list a contact phone number so someone could call you if there were any questions.

NOW, BEFORE ANYONE ACTUALLY DOES THIS, someone else, or even several individuals need to call the IRS and try to get the same/similar answer(s) from another agent. 1-800-829-1040 and work through the menu prompts until you get to the one about questions regarding your personal taxes. Once I got to an operator, told him I had questions on EINs and was transferred to the guy (VERY HELPFUL) that I was talking to.

Initially he said the on-line application was OK until he finally comprehended that we are NOT setting up ANY KIND OF BUSINESS. The EINs being requested are for personal identification numbers being required by another federal agency. Once he finally understood that is when he moved off the on-line application and once he saw that applicants had to make an actual “Entity” selection before being allowed to the next screen, he really saw the disconnect.

AGAIN, ANYONE WITH THE TIME, PLEASE CALL AND TRY TO VERIFY WHAT I UNDERSTAND I WAS TOLD ABOVE. You’ve got to first make them understand this requirement has NO business or tax reporting connection/requirement.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Larry:

In your capacity, can you provide any specific IRS regs (links), beyond what a regular Joe can find on the web, regarding the IRS's acceptable use of EIN's for non-tax reporting issues and the connection to filling a 1040c if you have an EIN, even if you have zero business activity associated with that EIN.

As you indicate, maybe this EIN is not a big deal, BUT it would be nice to have some kind of document(s) that we can lay our hands on to back ourselves up just in case a rouge IRS agent with an agenda comes knocking.

I am at the NRA convention at the moment . Let me tell you why it doesn't bother me. In the last 38 years we have filed hundreds of "no activity "tax returns for clients . Not once ever has the IRS come looking nor even questioned one of these . There are many reasons for these returns having no activity . Regardless, they never get checked.

There is specific info that has to be entered on the application for the EIN in a specific place on the form. It is going to identify this for what it is. I doubt there will anyone thinking there is a new business if this is filled out correctly.

By the way, it is NOT form 1040c. It is Schedule C of form 1040.

Larry:

My bad for being lazy and dropping the “schedule” from my typing, I’ll be sure I include it from now on to make sure to avoid any confusion.

From my reading of the on-line IRS Pub(s) and now two calls to two different IRS agents, you’ve pretty much confirmed my understanding that by obtaining an EIN a person also incurs an obligation to include a 1040 – Schedule C or Schedule C-ez with for that EIN even if it is a “no activity” (basically contains all zeros) with their annual tax filing.

I was also aware and the IRS agent yesterday also confirmed that you can also release/surrender/close an EIN you no longer need by simply sending the IRS a letter with your name, address, EIN and state you would like to close your EIN. You would still need to include a “no activity” Schedule C for that tax year the person had an EIN, even if it is for just a few months of a tax year. He also did caution about someone who repeatedly opened and closed EINs as it could create a “pattern” that “could” cause extra scrutiny by the IRS even if it all legal and above board.

IF I end up going this route in a few weeks, at this point I’m thinking I’ll use the SS-4 paper EIN application, fax it in and just file the extra “no activity” Schedule C and include a memo on top of it stating exactly why I obtained the EIN – solely to comply with Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) mandated requirement for information entry into the AESDirect on-line program.

Jesus H. C***** what a freak’n mess this is. Even more reasons we all need to be burning up the phones and emails to our Congressrats to get this STOPPPED.

There are probably a lot of other 2A (Second Amendment) issues being discussed at the NRA convention, but is there anything the NRA is discussing or talking about regarding this particular issue?

I am a member of the NRA's Hunters Leadership Forum. I had dinner with the NRA president last night. I can assure you they are going to hear about it. I am quite confident they already know.

Once you have a ITN and SS-4 what next?
John

John:

Please forgive me, but this whole process is so full of loopholes and trapdoors I’ll try to walk through this in the steps/sequence that I currently understand them. Please remember this is subject to my personal understanding at this time.

1. We’ll need an IRS issued Employer Identification Number (EIN). This is required whether we open an AESDirect account ourselves and enter our own firearms info or if we hire someone or some other agency to do it on our behalf.

2. While some have indicated to apply for the EIN via the IRS’s on-line process, based on my conversation with the IRS yesterday, if I end up applying for an EIN I will use the SS-F paper form and fax it in and wait the 4-business days for the IRS to fax back the EIN. The reason I will use the SS-4 over the on-line is the paper form doesn't "require" me to select "Sole Proprietorship" or some other business structure to move to the next page. Per my conversation with the IRS guy, the SS-4 lets more correctly and completely identify the reason for the EIN.

3. Once you have an EIN in hand, there are two options:

a. Go to the AESDirect website, open your own account and enter/modify your own information and get your own Internal Tracking Number (ITN)
b. Hire a third party to enter your firearm information and get the ITN for you. The third party agent is supposed to get an “authorization letter” from you as well as your firearm and travel info and EIN

4. You will still also need to go to a US C&BP office with your firearms (and any other valuables) and get the CPB Form 4457s
a. The primary use of the 4457 is as an alternate form of proof of ownership of the firearms and that it, or any other high value items coming back to the US originated in the US and prevents you from having to pay import tax/duty
b. The other proof of ownership of the firearms or high value items is the original bill of sale or sales receipt – as long as it reflects the item(s) serial number. That last bit is why most opt for the 4457 for firearms.
c. The 4457 is used/viewed by nearly all foreign governments as our “license to own” said firearm(s) and require it to issue their “Temporary Firearm Import Permit”

5. As I currently understand the new requirements, when you check-in at the airport, you are supposed to:

a. “Declare” your firearms, ammo and ITN to the ticket agent
b. “Declare” your firearms and ITN to a C&BP agent who is “supposed to” verify your ITN and serial numbers
c. “Declare” your firearms and ITN to the TSA

6. When you return to the US through your initial Port of Entry, i.e. JFK, Atlanta etc., when clear your firearms back in through Customs you are supposed to provide them with your ITN and 4457’s or original US based proof of purchase.

7. US Customs is supposed to look-up your ITN and compare you firearms serial numbers against the ITN info as well as your 4457(s) etc. The purpose is to ensure all the firearms you took out come back.

So, far I have found nothing in writing that definitively address the following questions.

1. The AESDirect system currently doesn’t have any data fields to enter any anticipated/ticketed return date information. So, what if you or none of the rifles just don’t come back through a US Port of Entry?

2. What happens IF you don’t have a C&BP office at the Regional airport you begin your travel from or you can’t find a C&BP officer at your port of departure airport. Is the ITN not “activated” in “the system”, or the ticket agent or TSA agent doesn’t ask for the ITN. If no one asked for the ITN during your departure and there is some sort of hidden “activation” requirement, are we going to be jammed up on our return/re-entry?

3. What happens to the traveler if the third party they hire to get the ITN drops the ball in some way i.e. misses a serial number or date. Is the traveler going to be in a jam with C&BP either departing or returning and what recourse does the traveler have with this third party agent.

Oh – and don’t forget to fill out and send your "no activity" 1040 Schedule C with your EIN on it with your Federal and State taxes next year too.

God what a zoo……

After working through and researching this new process, it is so full of holes and security flaws that I haven’t mentioned here, it is absolutely ridiculous! If a simple minded guy like me can find them so easily I can guarantee someone with criminal intent will see/find them even faster than I did.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores: ... I had dinner with the NRA president last night. I can assure you they are going to hear about it. I am quite confident they already know.

That is certainly encouraging. The real questions are, "What will be their response" or "What action(s) will they take?" If there ever was a reason for some sort of "joint-venture" or united front amongst the NRA-DSC-SCI, this is it.

M3taco,
Thank you very much for your response. This will eventually work itself out in some more streamlined fashion or be eliminated, but in the mean time we have to deal with it. I leave in three weeks from today, so I truly appreciate you helping me through this process.
John

John:

I'm happy to try and provide info the I've been able to dig up, BUT and this is a BIG BUT. I can not and do not make any promises or guarantee that what I've been able to sort through is 100% correct.

Where possible I've provide direct links to IRS pubs and relayed the most important points of telephone conversations I've had with AESDirect personnel, two IRS personnel and my local C&BP office agent(s), one Delta airline check-in/ticket agent and two local airport TSA agents.

I implore everyone to try and replicate my info or post contradicting info they uncover to what I've been posting. The real kicker is that it would also appear that there is extremely significant levels of awareness about this entire "thing" among those charged with enforcing/executing this pile of stinking crap.

That is one reason i personally don't want to try any short cuts and I'm saving hard copies of source docs that plan on taking with me and also use the more conservative SS-4 paper form for the EIN - when the time comes.

Good luck with your hunt. It's kind of looking like successfully navigating these new trip wires will be a trophy unto itself.

It would be great if the whole thing wasn't needed, but for now wouldn't it be easier for the AES system to accept SSNs as EINs? Just like everyone else does...

Bobby:

In my conversations with the AESDircet legal department, they explained to me that SS# are not allowed because since the website and database are maintained by the US Census Bureau, the data is freely exchange between numerous other US.gov agencies. Use of SS# would (don't choke on your adult beverage) violate our "privacy rights" but not so much about our 2A rights. Guess their view is they are not keeping us from keeping and bearing arms, just restricting our movement of them out of the US and back.

If you notice, above in solutions I've been offering up is the use of our passport numbers for both opening and entering info in the AESDiret system. Creating an account with a PP# would only allow the person to enter the limited firearm info and get the ITN, nothing more. Under the current system, if you open an account in AESDirect a person could apply for an import/export permit for just about anything.

I called Steve when I first heard about this new requirement and posted that he was going to address and take care of our problem. Good to see he has addressed it so quickly. That's why I use his services.

Dutch