I am about to book my first trip to Africa (Namibia)and I am looking for recommendations for travel agents for booking the flights.

The PH recommended Frosh Travel. I haven't been overly impressed so far. I've been communcating with them via email, but I haven't been able to reach anyone over the phone. This is a little unsettling to me, as it is our first trip to Africa. I'd really like to talk to someone about the details, instead of passing emails back and forth.

I would appreciate any recommendations or advice.

Thanks

TBD:

I have used Gracy Travel in the past and will use them again this summer.

In 2007, my hunting partner and I had to change our return from Vic Falls to the USA on short notice. We borrowed a sat phone, called Doug at Gracy, and 10 minutes later had our entire itinerary changed and confirmed.

I was greatly impressed and relieved and will highly recommend them.

RCG

Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
(708)452-3552
kathi@wildtravel.net

We are currently working with Kathi and very pleased with her services.

I have used Shawn at Gracy Travel for all 3 of my African trips and have been well pleased.

Kathi has helped me with two trips.

Without doubt, Kathi Klimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Without doubt, Kathi Klimes.

Add another satisfied customer to Kathi.

She has arranged all the visa and travel requirements for our friends coming from the US.

Another vote for Kathi, she is great to work with.

we have used gracy for the last 7 or 8 trips. always without a hitch. big plus now is that they have a ground person in joberg (if you're going that way)

Gracy

Gracy was great until I got to the airport and found out that they hadn't notified the airline I was transporting guns. Their mistake, 100%. My trip was delayed 24 hours because of this.

Gracy rescheduled the flights and put us up in a hotel at their cost. Fine - it was their mistake. But when it came to compensating myself and my family for losing 10% of our vacation, their response was to send me a cheque for 1 daily rate. $290. Big f'ing deal! (I refuse to cash the cheque, btw.)

A simple mistake on their part cost me big-time. How much is 10% of your trip of a lifetime worth to you?

NOT Gracy!

Kathi Klimes. She really knows her stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:
Gracy was great until I got to the airport and found out that they hadn't notified the airline I was transporting guns. Their mistake, 100%. My trip was delayed 24 hours because of this.

Gracy rescheduled the flights and put us up in a hotel at their cost. Fine - it was their mistake. But when it came to compensating myself and my family for losing 10% of our vacation, their response was to send me a cheque for 1 daily rate. $290. Big f'ing deal! (I refuse to cash the cheque, btw.)

A simple mistake on their part cost me big-time. How much is 10% of your trip of a lifetime worth to you?

NOT Gracy!

I was wondering what you thought adequate compensation would have been? $5k, $25k? One of the Gracy staff prostrate in the middle of the highway so you could run them over with the automobile? A public flogging? Crucifixion?

Scott King:

Well, I'm not prepared to answer for Wannabebwana but since I've thought about this ever since it happened, I'd think fair compensatoin for the loss of 10% of the "trip of a lifetime" should be AT LEAST equal to 10% of the whole cost of the trip and probably a fair number would be twice that since lost time and lost family vacations cannot be easily replaced. Given that he had his wife and two kids along, I'd think he had at least $20,000, and probably a good bit more, in the whole trip. Therefore, if I was arbitrating the situation, I'd start with a absolute MINIMUM of $2000. What do you think would be fair compensation if you were in the same situation? Keep in mind, this is not under the category of "shit happens" but specifically due to the lack of an action on the part of the travel agent at Gracy which she knew or should have known was necessary.

+1 Kathi

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Scott King:

Well, I'm not prepared to answer for Wannabebwana but since I've thought about this ever since it happened, I'd think fair compensatoin for the loss of 10% of the "trip of a lifetime" should be AT LEAST equal to 10% of the whole cost of the trip and probably a fair number would be twice that since lost time and lost family vacations cannot be easily replaced. Given that he had his wife and two kids along, I'd think he had at least $20,000, and probably a good bit more, in the whole trip. Therefore, if I was arbitrating the situation, I'd start with a absolute MINIMUM of $2000. What do you think would be fair compensation if you were in the same situation? Keep in mind, this is not under the category of "shit happens" but specifically due to the lack of an action on the part of the travel agent at Gracy which she knew or should have known was necessary.

Thanks, Gato. You put it very well.

I used a similar thought process in an e-mail to Gracy Travel, but went a little easier on them. Here's an excerpt of my e-mail to them:

"Let me lay it out for you this way. This holiday cost me $22,000. The holiday was to be 14 days, including the two days travel time on each end. Your mistake cost me an extra day travel time and a day of hunting and holiday time for my family. So, if I take the cost of the holiday and divide it by the actual days of the trip, and not the 10 days of the actual holiday, this works out to $1541.43. That is what I believe you cost me, not including punitive damages. Do you really want to get into punitive damages?"

Apparently, they thought $290 was fairer compensation than $1541.43.

What's a day's hunting in Africa (or more appropriately, the LOSS, through negligence, of a day's hunting) worth to you, Scott?

I have used Shawn at Gracy Travel to book 11 airline trips to Africa. I have never had a single problem. I have booked by paying the standard air fare, as well as using Skymiles. She has gone the extra mile for me in more than one instance. This is based purely on my own experience. I would not hestiate using her at all. I'm not posting my experience to get into any pissing match with anyone. Just stating the facts, as she has done a great job for me.

Use Enough Gun:

I'm glad they have done a good job for you. They have obviously done a good job for many clients over the years or they still wouldn't be in business.

OTOH, I think the measure of a man, and the measure of a company, especially a small one where management is directly concerned with almost all parts of the business, is how they handle their affairs when things go tits up. There is NO QUESTION that Gracy's agent, whose name I won't mention, dropped the ball in this case. Their offer of compensation to Wannabebwana and his family is ridiculously small in my opinion and because of that, not because they made a mistake, that can and will happen in any business, I wouldn't use them if they were the only Travel Agency in the world. If I were wannabebwana I'd sue them. They have or should have "errors and omissions" insurance to cover such mistakes but I think they chose not to use it since Wannabebwana is a Canadian and they are essentially blowing him off.
If I was Wannabebwana I'd be doing the same thing he's doing which is posting the facts of the case, and letting potential clients decide which travel agency they'd prefer to use. It's easy to be a fair weather friend (or business) when things go swimmingly, the measure of that friendship (or the business) is how they react when the storm hits. I think and hope that Wannabebwana's postings have cost them multiples of what he should have recieved in compensation for their negligence in potential lost business. Gracy has behaved shamefully IMO. I'd still sue them if I was him, but I'm not, and that is his choice.

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:

.... but went a little easier on them. Here's an excerpt of my e-mail to them:

Do you really want to get into punitive damages?"

What's a day's hunting in Africa (or more appropriately, the LOSS, through negligence, of a day's hunting) worth to you, Scott?

You went a little easier on them?!

"Puntative damages!"

I suppose it ends up being a difference of opinion between the two of us and like UEG said, I certainly don't want to get into a pissing contest so perhaps as usual for me I should have kept my proverbial mouth shut.

Since you asked, a hunt or days hunt doesn't have a dollar value to me. Hunting for me is a hobby or a past time or a passion, or whatever so yes I do have to spend money to take part in hunting but I've never thought to myself, "No that goose/ deer/ pheasant/ buffalo/ moose/ leopard is or isn't worth $xxx.00. If I can afford to go hunting for------- I do. That being said, if I did loose a days or weeks worth of hunting I can't reverse the charges for it as I haven't placed that value on it.

Recently I was majorly jerked around by an airline while attempting to return home from a pheasant hunt. I was delayed an extra day and since I've been on a job that pays about $1400.00-$2100.00 per day I guess I could have sent them an e-mail demanding compensation for the days lost work. Instead I just chose to forget about it and like you with Gracy Travel, I certainly will try to avoid flying with that airline in the future.

The difference between the two of us is I'm just not interested in puntative.

Now, having read your explanation of the events, and now knowing Gracy will assist in unforseen lodging if a mistake is made, I feel more comfortable now more than ever in paying them to handle the air travel.

Shawn at Gracy booked my air travel in '07 to Zimbabwe for a buffalo/ plainsgame hunt, went off without a hitch. Three of us are booked to return for a leopard/ buffalo/ plainsgame hunt this August. I anticipate no hitches.

I have read threads here on AR, in the past, where good and evil has been spoken in regards to both of the well known travel agencies discussed in this current thread. Many have had great experiences with Kathi and with Gracy. Some have had bad experiences. It will be up to Texas Blue Devil to make a choice. Stating anyone's experiences should not be cause to denigrate the poster. This is a forum to learn from other's experiences and then to make your choice, as based upon your own informed decision. That's the way it should be. Everyone's opinions and experiences should be respected. Thanks for respecting mine.

Scott King:

Nice no answer. Forget punitive, what about actual damages? A day's hunt may have no value to you but that's what courts are for.....it does have a value, especially when you are paying thousands of dollars to hunt. Otherwise, we could all hunt Africa for free. Right?

Hey! No fun!

If UEG isn't going to let us tear up each other or a travel agent how about a booking agent?

Nuts, wrong forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Scott King:

Nice no answer. Forget punitive, what about actual damages? A day's hunt may have no value to you but that's what courts are for.....it does have a value, especially when you are paying thousands of dollars to hunt. Otherwise, we could all hunt Africa for free. Right?

Ok, I'll direct it squarely at you Gato.

Gato, I am not a "punitive" kinda guy. Were I in Wanna's situation I would be content with the accomodations provided and move on with life. I wouldn't send an e-mail demanding compensation and threatening punitive action.

It really doesn't matter to me. I have no special love for Gracy Travel and wouldn't think twice about using another reputable travel agency. The first time I used Gracy it went very well. I see from the number of positive posts on this thread that the overwhelming majority of customers have had the same positive experience. Based on this thread I feel comfotable dismissing the single bad transaction posted here and also dismissing the other poster with the unknown reason to spread discontent.

Let's start with the basics, there are two types of damages, actual and punitive. So you're saying that if you had paid $50,000 for a hunt, and the Travel Agent screwed up your reservations so that you couldn't catch your flight, and all the following flights were full, and you couldn't go on the hunt. The $50,000 is non-refundable, of course. Now, you're saying, you'd just say, "Oh well, stuff happens." and forget it. Riigght....

Scott, you asked, and I posted what I thought was fair compensation.

The way it works is this. I contracted with Gracy Travel to deliver a product at a prescribed time and date. They failed to deliver that product, and so were in breach of the contract. As a result of that breach of contract, I suffered a measurable loss.

I don't consider their "assist in unforeseen lodging" to be anything but CYA. This was a big screw-up, and big screw-ups cost companies money.

There is no doubt that I could successfully sue for my loss. However, I've consulted with three different lawyers (all personal friends, so I know I was getting responsible legal advice), and know that it would cost me far more to sue than I would be awarded by the court, particularly factoring in legal fees.

What it comes right down to is, would you prefer to deal with a company that says "We understand that you suffered a loss due to our negligence, and we're going to fairly compensate you for that", or would you rather deal with a company that says "You suffered a loss due to our negligence, but we're only going to compensate you if the court forces us to."?

The difference between the first type of company and the second type is a little word called "integrity". Screw-ups happen. Companies (and individuals) with integrity take steps to fix their screw-ups, not bury or ignore them.

UEG has it right. The original poster asked for opinions, and he's got them - good and bad. It's up to him to make a choice, but it should be an informed choice.

The question really to be asked is "Which company can I TRUST to make it right if they fuck up?" Obviously, from my experience, not Gracy.

Thanks for the recommendations!!

I didn't mean to stir up trouble.

Again thanks for the info.

I have used Gracy Travel, no problems and also have used Judy Noth at Tatum International Travel in Arizona. Tatum is doing our Moz 09 hunt and all is well to date. I don't know that I would use one that will not call and just wants to work via e-mail? This is one item that personal service with a real live voice on the line means quite a bit to me. Good luck and good hunting.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I used Kathi last year and she is handling my trip this year. My advise is that if need to be compensated if your trip is compromised, buy trip insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by RSIMMONS:
My advise is that if need to be compensated if your trip is compromised, buy trip insurance.

An agent being held accountable for their conduct is recognized by the courts:

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/tandv/travelagent.html

I like this part:

Recoverable Damages

The damages which a consumer may recover from a travel agent for breach of contract, negligence, fraud or violation of a Consumer Protection Statute will depend upon the nature of the injuries sustained. In non-physical injury cases recoverable should include the value of the components of the vacation not delivered, compensation for discomfort, annoyance and harassment and special damages for " loss of what was to have been a pleasant week " [ Touhey v. Trans National Travel86 ( $25,000 in special damages awarded )], or loss of " a refreshing, memorable vacation " [ Vick v. National Airlines87 ( $2,500 each for couple who suffered from missed flight )] or the " intangible pleasure of a 24 hour vacation day " [ Semrod v. Mexicana Airlines88 ( $3,000 awarded for loss of one vacation day )] or the loss of a planned vacation [ Pelegrini v. Landmark Travel Group89 ( $250 awarded for loss of planned vacation )] .

I realize that one court case does not necessarily a precedent set, but by this example, Gracy Travel owes me $12,000.

I can't comment about Gracy's agents.

I had our own AR member Kathi Klimes make my arrangements. She just doesn't sit back and rely on her reputation, she is an active poster on this forum. Since she and her husband actually hunt Africa, I thought her 'feet on the ground' knowledge would be an asset to me. My plains game hunt to Namibia was my first safari so I really had lots of questions. Kathi answered them both via phone and email. Going and coming back home went off without a hitch.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
I can't comment about Gracy's agents.

I had our own AR member Kathi Klimes make my arrangements. She just doesn't sit back and rely on her reputation, she is an active poster on this forum. Since she and her husband actually hunt Africa, I thought her 'feet on the ground' knowledge would be an asset to me. My plains game hunt to Namibia was my first safari so I really had lots of questions. Kathi answered them both via phone and email. Going and coming back home went off without a hitch.

+++++ for Kathi. Great support and after reservations had to be changed even a lower price!

quote:

Originally posted by Cat57:
Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
(708)452-3552
kathi@wildtravel.net

We are currently working with Kathi and very pleased with her services.

That phone number is disconected..

I give my recommendation to Gracy Travel. Everything went smooth on our trip and they even helped with a missed connection. Another travel agent that I tried to used took too long to use our miles. My wife and I ended up buying two tickets instead. It would have been nice to use that 4K+ for trophy fees or other stuff on the trip.

Greg

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:

quote:

Originally posted by Cat57:
Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
(708)452-3552
kathi@wildtravel.net

We are currently working with Kathi and very pleased with her services.

That phone number is disconected..

I thinks there's a number transposition. Here's her contact info from my reservations to Zim she made last month.

Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
708-425-3552
708-425-4188 Fax

Phone number is disconnected... Sent E-mail last week requesting rates with no response.. But she's posting little news articules on the African board.. Perhaps she will see this and respond..

quote:

Originally posted by Cat57:
Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
(708)452-3552
kathi@wildtravel.net

We are currently working with Kathi and very pleased with her services.

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:
Phone number is disconnected... Sent E-mail last week requesting rates with no response.. But she's posting little news articules on the African board.. Perhaps she will see this and respond..

quote:

Originally posted by Cat57:
Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
(708)452-3552
kathi@wildtravel.net

We are currently working with Kathi and very pleased with her services.

Woops.... Explains that ...... Just called and left a detailed voice message..

Thanks for clearing that up..

Booked a hunt to Tanzania in '06 with Gracy. Flawless service. Currently booking a 21 day to Tanzania with Gracy. Will let you know how it comes out. So far, so good.

Last year, emailed Kathi with request for rates to the CAR. Got no response.

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:
Phone number is disconnected... Sent E-mail last week requesting rates with no response.. But she's posting little news articules on the African board.. Perhaps she will see this and respond..

quote:

Originally posted by Cat57:
Kathi Klimes
Wild Travel
(708)452-3552
kathi@wildtravel.net

We are currently working with Kathi and very pleased with her services.

Woops.... Explains that ...... Just called and left a detailed voice message..

Thanks for clearing that up..

So sorry about the phone number screw up. Glad someone caught that.

I can comment on Meliza at Gracy Travel and she was top notch in my book. Anyone that can get the bureaucracies to follow through with just one phone call was greatly appreciated. And so were the seat assignment requests that came through.


Dutch