In June, I've got a 12 hour layover in Frankfurt until I catch the Air Namibia flight. American Airlines doesn't have a baggage agreement with Air Namibia. I can't get Air Namibia or Frankfurt Customs to tell me what should be done with my guns during the layover. Has anyone done this? Thanks.

I'm writing without personal knowledge but I didn't fly American for this very reason AND the fact that you're probably going to be standing in line for hours to get checked in and seated on the outgoing flight.

I understand that German customs will hold the guns for you but that is my UNDERSTANDING, not firm knowledge. Finally, I was advised that the waits in line for the Air Namibia flight to check back in ran 2 hours or more. Since patience is not one of my few virtues, I chose to fly Lufthansa which does have a baggage arrangement with Air Namibia BUT I'm laying over in Germany for a couple of days so that may have its own set of problems.

At least I have 12 hours. Thanks.

Are you using travel agents to assist? I've booked hunts without agents but transiting countries with guns without an agent's assistance makes me nervous...especially Europe.

I will be making similar arrangements for '09 so I'm curious to hear what works (and doesn't work) for everyone.

Another vote for Lufthansa...or anybody else w/a "carry through" agreement w/Air Namibia. I had a 14 hour layover...got to see the zoo and a little more of Frankford.
Robert

I used Gracy Travel for the Frankfurt to Windhoek leg, but American Airlines Airmiles from Dallas to Frankfurt. So, I may call Gracy if Frankfurt Customs continues to not respond to my emails. This can't be a first time issue, somebody has probably dealt with this before. Thanks.

If you don;t mind, keep me in the loop on this. I am headed to Namibia in Sept. & want to go the Franffurt/Windhoek route. I hope to layover for a couple of days on the return & want to be able to have security or customs hold my guns.
Susan & Gracy told me that I can make arrangments w/ customs to hold the guns in bond until I check in to leave. We'll see.

I flew United/Air Namibia/Air Namibia/Luftansa for my flight. I had a 15 hour layover, and they checked my bags straight through. I let Gracy Travel book the whole thing.

Troy

My rep from Gracy Travel warned me that if you interrupt your flight straight through from Namibia to The US, you may loose your baggage allowance that is given to American travelers. They have had clients get hit with major extra baggage fees when they do this type of layover.
Once you reticket from Germany and remove your bags from the system then the airlines some times considers it a European originated flight. She did say it is not a 100% hit on the baggage fees but do be ready for it!

I also had a very hard time getting information on a bonded storage area and the information I did get was completely conflicting from the same agency. We opted to save on the hassle and go to Europe with out guns on a trip of its own.

Good luck!

I got the email below regarding baggage weight from Air Namibia:

"YR ALLOWANCE DUE ATLANTIC FLIGHT IS 2 BAGGAGE PIECES WITH EACH 32KG PLUS 15KG FOR GUN AND AMMUNITION."

But, I was told on the phone my limit was 20 kilos for baggage plus 10 kilos for a gun case. And I bet if I talked to a third person, I would get a third answer.

So, I am going to pack reasonably and take plenty of money.

I'm in the same situation with having to take posession of guns and luggage in Germany during my stop over on the way to Namibia as
db1234.[a ticket screw up that supposedly prevents luggage forwarding straight threw]
Surely this has happened befor ,if anyone could relate how it was handled it might give us a heads up on what we are in for.
THANKS GUYS

I was told by Air Namibia that Frankfurt Customs will hold my gun case during the 12 1/2 hour layover. And then when I'm ready, they will carry it to the Air Namibia counter for check in. I'm going to check with American Airlines (my first leg to Frankfurt) and see if they confirm.

db1234 could you post when you find out .

THANKS

Chopper12

I haven't forgotten you. I am still waiting for an answer to my email to American Airlines.

Chopper12,

As expected, I got a different answer from American Airlines than from Air Namibia. American Airlines' response to my email said to call Reservations for the correct information. I called Reservations who said I had to physically pick up my gun case (and other bags) from American Airlines and personally check them in with Air Namibia. I told her that I had talked with Air Namibia who said Frankfurt Customs would not let me take possession of my guns during the layover and Customs would hold it until the Air Namibia counter opened.

I pressed her for something in writing and she checked with her Supervisor but said she couldn't find anything to put in writing. She reiterated that Air Namibia was giving me incorrect information about Frankfurt Customs holding my guns during the layover. But, I think she was just giving the scripted answer to that question, because I am pretty sure I have seen several posts to this forum where Frankfurt Customs held guns during a layover.

Bottom Line- I'm going to pick up my guns from American Airlines in Frankfurt and hope I can find some place to safely store them so that I can check into the Sheraton Hotel day room with my family. Otherwise, I am just going to find a corner in the airport and sleep on top of them until the Air Namibia counter opens. I'm departing June 8 and returning June 24, if that helps.

Thanks and Good Hunting.

THANKS

I depart May 30th and come home June 18th so neither one of us will be able to help the other in time.I'm going to just hope for the best>
THANKS AGAIN

chopper12:

We leave on Lufthansa 6/19, leave Frankfurt 6/22, arr Windhoek 6/23, return 7/9. Please post your experiences quickly upon your return .

Will do !!

Guys,

Be prepared to be flexible. That's all I can say. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (experiences vary as do opinions) here at the FKT Airport (20+ years) is that there is at least a decorum of common-sence and a reasonable attitude regarding persons traveling with firearms - unlike many other countries in the World. Regardless of what actually occurs your firearms will/should get on yout flight with you.

I've have spoken to German Customs at FKT Airport regarding this topic numerous times. They are like most other Customs Agents globally; Civil Servants and unfortuneatly have Bad-Hair Days just like everyone else. Usually everything goes according to Hoyle but the Horror Stories somehow continue. The overwhelming vast majority of them speak English to a good degree, know & apply the rules equally. As ususal, politeness helps as does patience.

I have also been witness to and heard from others (opinions, War Stories vs. fact do vary) including the countless posts on this same topic here that there is considerable latitude and at the same time inflexibilty on this topic; so expect whatever occurs.

I've seen courteous German Customs Officials standing with traveling Hunters Gun Cases; escorting i.e., Picking up at Baggage Claim & Delivering their Gun Cases to Check-In for follow-on flights; also seen them deposting firearms in their Secure Storage Area for the duration of a person's stay and also seen traveling Hunters given their firearms to take with them to follow-on flight Check-In.

It appears there is not a Standard Operating Procedure, although the procedure is supposed to be that if your firearm is NOT checked through German Customs take possession of it until Check-In for your follow-on flight. After you claim the firearm they should also carry it & escort you to your follow-on Check-In counter.

When you arrive in FKT and get to Baggage Claim be sure to go to the Oversized Baggage Claim area. If your firearms are not checked though they will appear here. This can happen as if by magic; i.e., immediately or take an hour - I dunno. In my experience Firearms do not appear to bound to any normal sequence, that is; Bycycles, Prams, Golf Bags, Surfboards and other asundry oversized parcels get through quicker. Why Firearms take so long is beyond my comprehension but it is so.

After you've claimed your baggage & firearm proceed to Cutoms Control. Like in EVERY other country around the World if you are traveling with a firearm you are required to declare it - PERIOD. This is where the inconsitancies arise but be prepared for one of the three scenarios described above.

Gerry, not to quibble, but some might be confused by the three letter airport identifier you are using. My references show Frankfurt am Mein as FRA.

It appears it is possible to layover & leave guns in customs. I have the PDF forms required if you want to e-mail I can send them to you. Gracy travel sent me the following:

Gracy Travel International, Inc
6865 Camp Bullis Rd
San Antonio, TX 78256
Tel : 210-698-2611
Fax: 210-698-2158
Email : info@gracytravel.com
SPECIALIZING IN AFRICAN SAFARIS SINCE 1984
www.gracytravel.com
Specializing in travel for
the hunting sportsman
since 1984
Importation of firearms and ammunition - Germany
For a transfer at the Airport in Frankfurt intended exclusively to change to an international flight, a permit to carry weapons in the accompanying luggage is not necessary if the transit-area will not be left.
A permit to import weapons is required if an actual entry into the Federal Republic of Germany takes place of an invitation to a hunt or sport-shooting event (but also if temporary the transit-area will be left to reach another flight after having been through customs and passport checks and recheck with the weapon in a separate airline-terminal).
In the case of an invitation to a hunt or sport-shooting event in Germany the formalities should be handled by the inviting person.
To have the permit the following information is required:
* Last Name, First Name, Date und Place of Birth,
home-address, passport-number
* Kind of weapon (e.g. repeater), manufacturer, caliber,
serial-number
* Ammunition: amount of cartridges, caliber, manufacturer
* Flight-number, date and time of arrival and departure in/at
Frankfurt (voyage out and also homeward voyage)
* Fax-Number to have the permit
If a permit is needed please fill out the enclosed working print permit form and send it back to us so that we can forward the official permit that you need to transport weapons and/or ammunition. Please address it to:
Stadt Frankfurt am Main
Ordnungsamt - 32.21
Postfach 11 17 31
60052 Frankfurt am Main
Fax: +496921243365
E-Mail: ujb@stadt-frankfurt.de
These authorities issue permits which have to be presented to the customs border control offices when entering Germany. Please use the "RED EXIT" at customs control at the Airport.
If you leave the airport for touristic reasons or to stay over night, you can leave your weapons and ammunition with the customs department(Zollbehörden) for safe-keeping.
Please address the office concerned with customs examinations at the baggage claim (on the right side of customs barriers/customs control). The colleagues there will give you a receipt for the weapons so that you get them back on your departure from the airport.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Im Auftrag
P. Voss
Stadt Frankfurt am Main
Der Magistrat
Ordnungsamt 32.21.1
Postfach 11 17 31
60052 Frankfurt am Main
Tel.: 069/212-42422
Fax: 069/212-43365
E-Mail: ujb@stadt-frankfurt.de

fredj338,

Do I need the forms if I want to leave guns and ammo with Customs during a 12 hour layover? Or only if someone intended to take the guns out of the airport? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by db1234:
fredj338,

Do I need the forms if I want to leave guns and ammo with Customs during a 12 hour layover? Or only if someone intended to take the guns out of the airport? Thanks.

My understanding is that all of your luggage gets transfered to your connecting AirNamibia flight. I would certainly check w/ the AirNamibia folks & maybe customs when you arrive.
I just spoke w/ Susan & Gracy & she is going to keep me posted but she has heard rumbling that Lufthansa is going to want specific details of rifle type, caliber (including ser.#) & quantity of ammo. So I would have that data on hand when you check in just incase.

fredj338,

I think your response is correct for a connecting flight using Lufthansa and Air Namibia, which have a mutual baggage transfer agreement. Unfortunately, I'm on American Airlines to Frankfurt and then Air Namibia to Windhoek which don't have an agreement. So, I've either got to sit on top of my gun cases for 12 hours or see if Customs will store them. Surely, Customs doesn't want bored Texans hanging around their airport with guns and ammunition.

Let me know how this all turns out as I am flying into Frank. in Sept. I am connecting thru to Namibia & planning a 3 or 4 day layover on the way back. Hoep all goes well for both of us.

An update on my search for some answers to laying over in Germany. THis is from Frankfurt Airport Customs:
Dear Mr Johnson,

thank you for your inquiry. Best would be, if you check the luggage right
through to the final destination. If N O T (you are going to immigrate), you
need an agreement of the competent administration, in case the airport of entry
will be Frankfurt am Main it will be the "Ordnungsamt of the city of Frankfurt
am Main", Mr. Voss is responsible for matters concerning firearms, you can
reach him under the following phonenumber +4969-212-42422.

If you have the agreement (Erlaubnis) you declare the firearms
to "vorübergehende Verwendung" at the "RED EXIT" and store the firearms at our
office, there will be a fee that you have to pay for this."
Although the information is accurate to the best of our knowledge, we
Cannot assume legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness
or usefulness of any information.

Obwohl die Informationen nach bestem Wissen zusammengestellt wurden,
können wir keine Haftung für deren Vollständigkeit, Richtigkeit und
Nützlichkeit übernehmen.
Sincerely
H Geist
So it looks like it can be done.

I just got back last night and my experience was no problems with the German customs and my guns,they took my guns and checkin baggage that had the ammo in it and kept it for me and then when I brought them the checkin tags for them later they looked after checking them in for me with Air Namibia.
If you want further details of things PM me .

Just got back from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Windhoek via Frankfurt. Flew American Airlines to Frankfurt and Air Namibia on the Frankfurt/Windhoek legs. American Airlines doesn't have a baggage agreeement with Air Namibia, but I understand Delta does. (Flying Delta would obviously avoid having to deal with guns in Frankfurt.) Picked up my guns at the American Airlines baggage claim in Frankfurt and as you go through the red "Items to Declare" gate, German Customs will escort you to their storage room and hold the guns for you during your layover. The Customs official originally wanted to see "my papers" but when I told him Customs was supposed to hold my guns he made a call and personally escorted me to the storage room and made out a receipt. They were very friendly and helpful- no problems. When it was time to leave Frankfurt I went back to the room and they checked my receipt and assured me the guns would be on the flight. They would not escort me or let me take the guns directly to the Air Namibia counter, but the guns made the flight so I guess the system works.

As an aside, on my return flight there was no customs officer as we exited baggage claim and I waited a few minutes and finally just took my guns to the American Airlines counter and checked them in. I could have left the airport and German Customs would never have known I had brought guns into their country.

Hope this helps someone else. Good Luck.

Thanks for the heads up, glad you & your guns made it back in one piece.