The truth of the matter is that Emirates is a horrible airline to work for. They demand horrible schedules from their pilots and their pay and benefits are no longer competitive.

Just about any pilot who can is fleeing from Emirates. Their loss of experienced pilots is beginning to show, in both safety and now their inability to fly their airplanes.


https://onemileatatime.boardin...the-next-few-months/

Not news that I'm happy about, as I've been planning to fly Emirates from San Francisco to Lusaka later this year. Gonna have to keep a close watch on this and consider other options.

I think the writer has an axe to grind against Emirates.

Pilots have to comply with international air regulations about flying, so how can he blame it on Emirates?

Foreign pilots have never had the chance to commute home every second week, so I have no idea why he is bringing it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think the writer has an axe to grind against Emirates.

Pilots have to comply with international air regulations about flying, so how can he blame it on Emirates?

Foreign pilots have never had the chance to commute home every second week, so I have no idea why he is bringing it up.

It's always good to get more than one perspective. Thanks for chiming in, Saeed!

Sounds like I should cancel my Sept. reservation with Emirates and book with a superb carrier like Delta or God forbid, AA or UA- for twice the price, of course... AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think the writer has an axe to grind against Emirates.

Pilots have to comply with international air regulations about flying, so how can he blame it on Emirates?

Foreign pilots have never had the chance to commute home every second week, so I have no idea why he is bringing it up.

Saeed has an axe to grind with just about every airline in the world except his own. Of course he's going to defend the honor of his families property.

However the fact remains that Emirates is unable to retain or attract professional airline pilots. The reason is simple. Their work rules are onerous and their pay is substandard. Basically they are a horrible airline to work for as a pilot and pilots are abandoning Emirates at a rapid and unsustainable rate.

As to Saeed's comment to complying with international air regulations. That is the MAXIMUM a pilot is allowed to fly and or be on duty. Any airlines that is regularly flying their pilots to the regulatory maximum is causing their pilots to operate while fatigued, plain and simple.

On his second comment to the false statement that international pilots have never had a chance to commute home. That is simply ignorant on Saeed's part. Just about any and every airline that uses ex pat pilots has a commuting contract as an option. That is how they attract and retain foreign pilots.

Saeed's comments make it clear as to why pilots are abandoning Emirates. Emirates management has a particularly arrogant style. And their recent issues with retention and recruitment show that to be true.

I have many colleagues who've returned from flying for Emirates. The stories are not good.

It is not my airline.

I pay cash for all my travels.

I fly any airline that provides me with the service I have paid for.

I suppose that is why Emirates, with a current employee list approaching 100,000 professionals, seems to have no problems when they advertise for interviews for new employees.

Show me one airline that does not utilize their crew flying times to the maximum.

Writers such as this one are NOT independent.

Their articles are paid for commercials.

People vote with their money, and Emirates flights to many destinations are increasing.

A few years ago they had 2 flights a week to Male, Maldives. Now the have 4 A DAY!

Same goes to Johannesburg, and others.

I am almost certain this so called "reporter" is being paid by Qatar Airlines, which has had a downwards spiral after they have been boycotted by several countries because of their government support of extremists.

Have at it as you wish, but right now Emirates is right at the top of actually providing good service, and treating passengers as they should be treated.

I would not touch an American airline with a bloody barge pole, if you paid me to fly on them!

Same goes to some of the major European airlines.

The word "service" seems to have disappeared from their vocabulary.

I travel quite a bit, and I have learnt a lot about airlines and how they treat their passengers.

I fly First Class or Business Class wherever possible, but I gave up on flying Business Class within Europe, because the major European airlines have made a mockery of that.

They charge you extra, to provide you with half an empty seat next you, which is totally useless to you or the passenger sitting on the other side.

I fly both Ryan Air and Easy Jet.

You know why?

Because they charge extra for letting you pick your seat, provide you with priority boarding, and their service on the flight is great.

Ultimately, I am no different than the majority of people who fly.

We pay our money, and expect a trouble free flight. Whichever airline provides that.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think the writer has an axe to grind against Emirates.

Pilots have to comply with international air regulations about flying, so how can he blame it on Emirates?

Foreign pilots have never had the chance to commute home every second week, so I have no idea why he is bringing it up.

Saeed has an axe to grind with just about every airline in the world except his own. Of course he's going to defend the honor of his families property.

However the fact remains that Emirates is unable to retain or attract professional airline pilots. The reason is simple. Their work rules are onerous and their pay is substandard. Basically they are a horrible airline to work for as a pilot and pilots are abandoning Emirates at a rapid and unsustainable rate.

As to Saeed's comment to complying with international air regulations. That is the MAXIMUM a pilot is allowed to fly and or be on duty. Any airlines that is regularly flying their pilots to the regulatory maximum is causing their pilots to operate while fatigued, plain and simple.

On his second comment to the false statement that international pilots have never had a chance to commute home. That is simply ignorant on Saeed's part. Just about any and every airline that uses ex pat pilots has a commuting contract as an option. That is how they attract and retain foreign pilots.

Saeed's comments make it clear as to why pilots are abandoning Emirates. Emirates management has a particularly arrogant style. And their recent issues with retention and recruitment show that to be true.

I have many colleagues who've returned from flying for Emirates. The stories are not good.

Great rebuttle!

George

I suspect Surestrike can name ten or more current or past Emirates expat pilots that he knows on at least a professional basis. I doubt Saeed can name two. In any case the issues with Emirates pilots have recently been widely reported in professional aviation publications. The issues reported are essentially those outlined by Surestrike.

Qatar Air... accept no substitutes for international travel.

Emirates isn't the first government subsidized airline to suffer these problems, but clearly they're having problems. It is just a matter of time before this translates to flight and passenger safety.

Such as this - https://www.wsj.com/articles/e...-too-late-1473161643

quote:

Originally posted by stubbleduck47:
I suspect Surestrike can name ten or more current or past Emirates expat pilots that he knows on at least a professional basis. I doubt Saeed can name two. In any case the issues with Emirates pilots have recently been widely reported in professional aviation publications. The issues reported are essentially those outlined by Surestrike.

I can assure you I personally know dozens of Emirates pilots who are more than happy to be working here.

Some have had their families here for years, and their kids were born and raised here.

Many of them enjoy shooting and come over here to shoot.

Some have been here so long they have grand kids.

Emirates and Singapore are the best I have flown. I have made 500+ international flights in the last 20 years.

I like the old British Airways, Turkish, Ethiopian, Air New Zealand as well.

In the USA, Southwest and Alaskan are top notch.

Several members of my family fly for Emirates, including my brothers daughter, who fly the B777.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
It is not my airline.[QUOTE]
I didn't say that it was. I said it was your families airline. "Emirates Airlines is owned by the Emirates group. The group is owned by the uncle of the current Prime Minister of UAE. Uncle's name is Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum (also the head of the Civil Aviation of United Arab Emirates)" We know that's not you, but obviously there is a family relation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
I suppose that is why Emirates, with a current employee list approaching 100,000 professionals, seems to have no problems when they advertise for interviews for new employees.[QUOTE]

Emirates will always be able to attract inexperienced pilots and pilots from countries that do not have flying opportunities in their home countries. The way to retain them is to offer top notch working conditions and pay, which Emirates does not. Foreign pilots will gain their heavy jet experience and leave if they are not treated well. Also just about every ex pat airline in the world offers a commuting contract option. Emirates does not, that is a huge minus for foreign pilots.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
Show me one airline that does not utilize their crew flying times to the maximum.[QUOTE]

Saeed, seriously? There are regulatory maximums and there are contractual maximums. Flying pilots and cabin crew to the regulatory maximums causes chronic fatigue, discourse and forces people who can to leave the organization as is happening at a record rate at Emirates currently. That is why emirates is parking multiple heavy jets due to a lack of pilots. And to answer your question about showing you one airlines that does not fly pilots to the regulatory maximums; The truth is that in the vast majority of first world countries almost none would have such draconian demands on their pilots. You've got to move down to the lesser, (crappy) freight carries to find that being practiced.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
Writers such as this one are NOT independent.[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
I am almost certain this so called "reporter" is being paid by Qatar Airlines, which has had a downwards spiral after they have been boycotted by several countries because of their government support of extremists.[QUOTE]

These statements are absolutely ridiculous. Does the president of Emirates Airlines, Sir Tim Clark also work for Qatar? https://gulfnews.com/business/...t-shortage-1.2204332 http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/...-pilot-shortage.html (BTW read why pilots are leaving in this article, long hours and poor working conditions.) Sound familiar?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
Have at it as you wish, but right now Emirates is right at the top of actually providing good service, and treating passengers as they should be treated.[QUOTE]

It is a bloody shame that an airline which offers world class passenger service can't also be a world class employer. Instead Emirates treats its employees like a third world sweat shop. When you see accidents like that of Emirates 525 where two experienced pilots, figuratively sat on their hands leaving the throttles at idle during an attempted go around you can bet that fatigue was a factor. It is past time that Emirates Airlines gets with the program and starts fixing these problems or they've got turbulent times ahead. Maybe it is time to fire Sir Tim and hire somebody who understands making a decent work place to work and aviation safety systems and human factors.

quote:

Emirates will always be able to attract inexperienced pilots

I would prefer to fly with Emiratescand their inexperienced pilots any day, instead of any American or European airlines.

I suppose the hundreds of flights Emirates flies every day, without any incident, is all due to the inexperience of their pilots from third world countries!

As widely reported in the aviation press Emirates is currently parking aircraft due to a shortage of pilots. Also widely reported Emirates has a goodly number of aircraft on order that will be delivered over the next few years. These are largely fleet increase orders, not replacements for aging aircraft. Although not all agree it is generally assumed that there will be a shortage of airline level pilots in the coming years due to mandatory, with regard to airline flying, retirement of "Baby Boom" pilots. I suspect that whatever issues with Emirate pilot employment practices that are responsible for the current staffing difficulties will come to a head and be solved one way or another. If the path taken by Emirates involves hiring relatively inexperienced pilots it is likely to become evident in unfortunate events reflecting that inexperience.
Saeed...my apologies for a bad guess on your acquaintance with Emirate pilots. You might ask some of them why they think Emirates is parking airplanes for lack of pilots and, more importantly, what they think Emirates is going to do about it.

Well I'd rather fly Qatar.

Service is superb, the fit out on the planes is as good or better and they are $1000's cheaper to fly with due to the boycott by the Saudis and other Emiratis.

The fact that Saeed enjoys the service he gets on his home town airline is really fantastic.

The elephant in the room remains, what is Emirates going to do about their horrific working conditions and their inability to retain pilots?

I’m guessing that an Emirates pilot who is enjoying the hospitality of a member of the royal family who happens to own the airline he flies for is not going to say the first negative thing to said host.

I spend time with those same guys at hotels around the world. It’s a different story when it’s just us pilots talking.

Surestrike, I don't know your motivation behind opening this thread. I do know that it is beyond rude and an insult and affront to those of us who enjoy the hospitality of the man who graciously hosts this forum.

You have shown yourself to be an ass. My suggestion is that you not continue in this vein and further reveal what a real prick you obviously are.

quote:

Originally posted by Blair 338RUM:
Well I'd rather fly Qatar.

Service is superb, the fit out on the planes is as good or better and they are $1000's cheaper to fly with due to the boycott by the Saudis and other Emiratis.

That may be true for flights out of Oz, they are about $1000 more for biz flights from the US. Wife and I flew QA to Joberg last year and really enjoyed it but this year, price advantage went to Emirates.

While I don't know the inter workings of the airline industry, I do think I have a fair understanding of economics . If the supply curve of qualified airlines pilots is inelastic and demand is growing . Pilots will go to airlines that offer a better employment package . It appears by the evidence that Emirates is not as attractive as their competition, thus the shortage . The way to attract more qualified piolits is to offer a better employment package (read that as more money better working conditions exc )
PS I do like to fly Emirates

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Surestrike, I don't know your motivation behind opening this thread. I do know that it is beyond rude and an insult and affront to those of us who enjoy the hospitality of the man who graciously hosts this forum.

You have shown yourself to be an ass. My suggestion is that you not continue in this vein and further reveal what a real prick you obviously are.

Don’t worry sharps there will be plenty of opportunities for you to kiss Saeed’s ass on other threads. If you can’t handle the truth I suggest you go piss up a rope and stay off of this one.

I don't recall ever kissing anybody's ass, Saeed's or otherwise. Common decency and manners are two qualities you seem to lack to the extent that I thought it worthy of comment.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Surestrike, I don't know your motivation behind opening this thread. I do know that it is beyond rude and an insult and affront to those of us who enjoy the hospitality of the man who graciously hosts this forum.

You have shown yourself to be an ass. My suggestion is that you not continue in this vein and further reveal what a real prick you obviously are.

Don’t worry sharps there will be plenty of opportunities for you to kiss Saeed’s ass on other threads. If you can’t handle the truth I suggest you go piss up a rope and stay off of this one.

Truth?

What truth?

Is what you read by a paid for worthless so called reporter is "truth", while what is actually happening on teh grounds is a not?

OK, believe what you wish.

"Inexperienced third world pilots?"

I suppose the millions of passengers Emirates flies safely and comfortably are just plain luckey they do not fall from the skies!

Come on, you are better than that!

Yesterday was Saturday, and Saturdays we have soccer nights.

Friends come over to my house to watch soccer and have dinner.

Among yesterday's guests was an English pilot who has been working for Emirates for so many years.

His oldest son is 19, and he has 3 others, all born here in Dubai.

I showed him this thread, and he started laughing.

He said this very same sort of campaign was directed against Singapore Airlines a few years ago.

And where is Singapore Airlines today?

One of the top world airlines.

Knocks spots off anything from America's and Europe's airlines.

Have at it to your hearts content.

I suppose now all our members here who have been enjoying flying on Emirates will cancel all their trips and book on that world beating so called airline, DELTA, UNITED or AMERICAN.

WE all know what wonderful service they provide, and the incredible working conditionss too.

Saeed,

it is funny you mention Singapore Airlines ...

few decades ago all the pilots wanted to go with Cathay then it was Singapore then Emirates ...

look up all those companies are now ...

on the other side i do remember one of my uncle flying for gulf air ... he was rated for 767 when air france got rid off them ... he as hired directly by them and all my nieces were born in UAE. life is different in other places of the world. if you are coming with your mind in a different country then it will not work.

there is no company in the world that will not use the max out of hours ...

surestrike i do not know your handle on pprune board but there is a sure thing a company needs to have the airplanes in the air to make money ... cant wait in few years to hear you about the shortage of jobs that affected north america and that will come back again you know the cycle ...

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Surestrike, I don't know your motivation behind opening this thread. I do know that it is beyond rude and an insult and affront to those of us who enjoy the hospitality of the man who graciously hosts this forum.

You have shown yourself to be an ass. My suggestion is that you not continue in this vein and further reveal what a real prick you obviously are.

Don’t worry sharps there will be plenty of opportunities for you to kiss Saeed’s ass on other threads. If you can’t handle the truth I suggest you go piss up a rope and stay off of this one.

Well... I guess you proved Sharps right after all!

Funny how some airline pilots are exhibiting the same attitude as tenured professors.

https://www.ft.com/content/448...link_time=1526018115

Looks like it is the Chinese again.

Mike

Mike,

Please do not put any links to any publication that requires a subscription to read.

Murdoch can stick as far as I am concerned!

As the worlds population increases and it's population of qualified pilots decreases, the ebb and flow of compensation packages for pilots will change.

I get a retirement check every month from Northwest (now Delta) so I tend to spend my money there. I have flown on many foreign carriers, including Emirates, and have had great cabin service on all of them. The US carriers are hindered by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and the rules they impose on hiring, it's not a good thing.

One of our old jokes was about how to get senior flight attendants into the cockpit; it required greasing the door frame and Twinkies. We all know that will never be a problem at Emirates, or Eva, or darn near any other foreign carrier.

This is an Internet forum, operated by a guy who continues to show class and tolerance for other views, please don't abuse a fellow shooter and gun guy over things none of us can control.

Now that Twinkie joke is damn funny- and, sadly, very true!

Emirates is one of the best airlines. I have flown it many times.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
Emirates is one of the best airlines. I have flown it many times.

Agreed. Having flown numerous other airlines to/from Africa (Delta, SAA, KLM, Lufthansa, Air France), the Emirates experience was the absolute best in all respects.

quote:

The truth of the matter is that Emirates is a horrible airline to work for

The truth of the matter is why do so many passengers prefer flying with Emirates, over all the other airlines which are a corner of paradise to work for?

Someone should start telling them the facts of what a horrible airline Emirates is.

They should stop flying them, then they would not have any standard to compare all the other fantastic airlines, lead by SAA, Delta, American, United, to realize what air travel should be like.

They employ incompetent, inexperienced, third world pilots, who incapable of flying all these great new, sophisticated planes made by Boeing and Airbus.

Those same pilots come from little villages where they have no running water, no toilets, no electricity, and have no clue how a modern aircraft works.

So both Boeing and Airbus have designed their planes to fly themselves.

The in cabin crew are not human either. They are all robots programmed to serve you drinks and refreshments automatically.

I do hope the above "facts" clear any misunderstanding some of you might have gotten after reading the FACTS written by well known air correspondents after their latest meeting with the management of Qatar Air!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]


The in cabin crew are not human either. They are all robots programmed to serve you drinks and refreshments automatically.

So, that why the Emirates FA are all young, attractive and nice. And keep serving me non-stop Scotch, Wine and Toblerones.