What has happened to what once was a great company??

This does not reflect very good on Boeing!

Boeing is one of the Strongest Co. in The U.S. They will bounce back.

Yes, Boeing went about this all wrong, this is what happens when the "Bean counters" take over and override engineers, but one has to ask the question; how come none of the big users of this airframe have not had any mishaps? The answer is obvious: Training, or a lack thereof... Any Boeing is still better than anything put out by Airbus...

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Yes, Boeing went about this all wrong, this is what happens when the "Bean counters" take over and override engineers, but one has to ask the question; how come none of the big users of this airframe have not had any mishaps? The answer is obvious: Training, or a lack thereof... Any Boeing is still better than anything put out by Airbus...

Airbus is the best thing that has happened to air travel.

They keep Boeing on its toes!

Anyone who tells me either plane is actually better for the general public is nothing but plain bullshit.

Boeing's problems started the day they bought out all the American competition.

Airbus, withe certain models, is years ahead of Boeing.

Boeing's problems with the 737 Max cam,e about because Boeing wanted to compete with a successful Airbus model, and failed miserably, costing lives, and billions in compensation.

Bean counters and bad management.

Come to think of it, I wonder how much Boeing had to pay in bribes to buy all the competition to be allowed by the government.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Yes, Boeing went about this all wrong, this is what happens when the "Bean counters" take over and override engineers, but one has to ask the question; how come none of the big users of this airframe have not had any mishaps? The answer is obvious: Training, or a lack thereof... Any Boeing is still better than anything put out by Airbus...

Airbus is the best thing that has happened to air travel.

They keep Boeing on its toes!

Anyone who tells me either plane is actually better for the general public is nothing but plain bullshit.

Boeing's problems started the day they bought out all the American competition.

Airbus, withe certain models, is years ahead of Boeing.

Boeing's problems with the 737 Max cam,e about because Boeing wanted to compete with a successful Airbus model, and failed miserably, costing lives, and billions in compensation.

Bean counters and bad management.

Come to think of it, I wonder how much Boeing had to pay in bribes to buy all the competition to be allowed by the government.

The A-320, which is the competition for the 737 series was not without its mishaps. Very similar to the MAX, when a computer flies, not a pilot. The mighty A-380 has also had its faults.

Ryanair has purchased aging airframes. They are also cheap. I wouldn’t have ever flown them.

Not having much better luck with the military's KC-46 tanker either. Bad management, shitty quality control, and an ego that far exceeds their capability!

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Yes, Boeing went about this all wrong, this is what happens when the "Bean counters" take over and override engineers, but one has to ask the question; how come none of the big users of this airframe have not had any mishaps? The answer is obvious: Training, or a lack thereof... Any Boeing is still better than anything put out by Airbus...

Airbus is the best thing that has happened to air travel.

They keep Boeing on its toes!

Anyone who tells me either plane is actually better for the general public is nothing but plain bullshit.

Boeing's problems started the day they bought out all the American competition.

Airbus, withe certain models, is years ahead of Boeing.

Boeing's problems with the 737 Max cam,e about because Boeing wanted to compete with a successful Airbus model, and failed miserably, costing lives, and billions in compensation.

Bean counters and bad management.

Come to think of it, I wonder how much Boeing had to pay in bribes to buy all the competition to be allowed by the government.

I agree on one point you bring up Saeed, that of competition. Air frame wise, I'm sorry, but both from a passenger and aviator, the Airbus isn't even in the same universe even when compared to an ancient 747.

For one, it's over 100kts slower. The philosophy of Airbus is to limit the pilot's abilities to fly the airplane by severely constricting the flight regime. Boeing in turn allows the man at the controls to exercise his skills. Having ridden as a pax on both, the seats on an Airbus plain SUCK, not to mention on flights from say Atlanta to Johannesburg, it can't make it on one leg. Boeing jets can. The only way Airbus made it in the marketplace is because the GOVERNMENTS that owned the conglomerate, deliberately under priced their products, just like the japanese did with all their stuff. From an aviator standpoint, give me a Boeing every time..

I suppose I forgot to mention President Trump did say the contract for the new Air Force 1 was insanely overpriced. I’m not talking about the proposed paint job...

quote:

Boeing in turn allows the man at the controls to exercise his skills

Yes.

To the point where the plane flies into the ground despite the pilots!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Boeing in turn allows the man at the controls to exercise his skills

Yes.

To the point where the plane flies into the ground despite the pilots!

Doesn't happen to WELL TRAINED pilots, but the Airbus sure as hell did.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Boeing in turn allows the man at the controls to exercise his skills

Yes.

To the point where the plane flies into the ground despite the pilots!

Doesn't happen to WELL TRAINED pilots, but the Airbus sure as hell did.

You nailed that one Jorge!!

So well-trained that they did not recognize a stall from 30,000+ ft to sea level.

quote:

Originally posted by vangulik:
So well-trained that they did not recognize a stall from 30,000+ ft to sea level.

That was the Rio mishap? Shit, even as a "conehead" (student Naval Aviator), I knew that if I gooned something up and had the altitude, just LET GO of the controls and the plane would "seek"conrtolled flight. I guarantee you those guys that bought the farm wouldn't recognize unusual attitudes (greater than 30 deg AOB) if it bit them in the ass, which it did.

I love the way some of are blaming the pilots for Boeing’s screwups.

Isn’t one of the first thing taught to pilots is recovering from a stall??

So ATP rated pilots, on two separate airlines, were so ignorant of this fact??

Why have the safer authorities all over the world grounded these models??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I love the way some of are blaming the pilots for Boeing’s screwups.

Isn’t one of the first thing taught to pilots is recovering from a stall??

So ATP rated pilots, on two separate airlines, were so ignorant of this fact??

Why have the safer authorities all over the world grounded these models??

1.Bowing has PLENTY to answer for with this HORRIBLE modification
2. Poorly trained ATP pilots sure as hell can't cope with this issue, as evidenced by the fact NO us carrier has lost a plane and for example, Southwest has HUNDREDS of these airframes. Air France pilots gooned up BIG TIME our of Rio.
3. They've been grounded because they KNOW the level of training of their pilots AND of course ensuing litigation.
I for one am not saying Boeing is blameless, especially with that modification that again was implemented because they were trending towards the Airbus mentality of "we know what is good for these pilots" instead of spending the money and taking these guys out and showing them proper techniques and recovery procedures.